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  1. #1

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    Default appropriate fee for fire reports

    We have one insurance company that always requests a fire report anytime they have a claim in our district. In their request it states if there are any fees involved with this to forward them on with the report. My Chief wants to charge $25 for this. Is that too high? does anyone else charge for this? How much do you charge?


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    In police work if you go to our county sheriff office in NY we would give you a copy of an accident report for free ... insurance companies have to pay $25 ... so they were telling customers to go get a copy for them ... lame .... for insurance co 25 is cool but i would want to charge that much to individuals. They already pay thru taxes.

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    That depends on the laws within your state. Some open records laws state you can only charge what it actually costs to make the copy, including time to search files, ink, paper, etc.

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    I've never had an insurance company ask me directly for a fire report, it's always the homeowner requesting it (because the insurance company told them they needed to get one). We don't charge for it, I figure that the homeowner is going through enough crap right about then, they're at least entitled to a copy of the fire report.

    Now if they "lost" it or already gave the copy to the insurance company without thinking to make some copies for themselves first and they come around asking for another one, I could see charging a small fee for additional copies. But I don't recall that ever happening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    That depends on the laws within your state. Some open records laws state you can only charge what it actually costs to make the copy, including time to search files, ink, paper, etc.
    BINGO!! In Pennsylvania, fire reports come under the open records laws, and I have to provide them for anyone who requests them through a written records request document. I am only allowed to charge them "reasonable costs" for my time of searching through the records to find the one they need, and then reproduction costs. Since my files are pretty organized, it only takes me a few minutes to find the file. Copied at .25 per page, and if there are photos, whatever the lab charges to make new prints. If there is a disc of digital images, the cost is $5.00 per disc.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Years ago, my municipal volunteer Dept accepted the responsibility to protect unincorporated areas outside the city limits. There was no taxbase there to support fire suppression needs, and when presented the option to vote on implementing a property tax to fund fire suppression, they voted against it.

    The city didn't want to made out to be the bad guy by halting fire suppression service to those areas, so they implemented a rule anyone living in the unincorporated areas had to pay $200 for a copy of a fire report.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    I agree that the first place you should look are the prevailing legal statutes for this area.

    But let me ask you a couple of questions (remember, I work for an insurance co.).

    1. When you compile your reasonable cost for the report, isn't it logical toinclude the time taken to prepare the report?

    2. You guys who already provide reports to ins. cos....Did any of them ever complain about the fee you were charging?

    3. When was the last time the insurance co. provided youwith a service for free?

    To me, a reasonable fee for a fire report would be $50. You should absolutely recoup your costs.

    Caution...if your official policy is to provide reports for free to one group and not to another, that is a slippery slope.

    $200 is ridiculous. In NJ, it would be considered by the courts to be an attempt to circumvent the Open Public Records Act.

    Teaching moment: Write your FD reports EVERY TIME like they will be used in a United States Supreme Court Case. I'm not talking about loading up your reports with useless detail. I am talking about a professionally prepared and presented product.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    $200 is ridiculous.
    Opinions are like body parts. Most everyone has them.

    When you cannot be paid $20,000 by the insurance company for lack of a fire report, $200 seems insignificant, especially when the rural residents were given Fire Protection Services from a Dept that they didn't pay to support.

    Residents living in the city limits were provided Fire Reports free of charge. In retrospect, it may have violated NC public records laws, but the citizens were given another chance to vote, and the tax district issue passed, so the $200 fee has gone bye-bye.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Opinions are like body parts. Most everyone has them.

    When you cannot be paid $20,000 by the insurance company for lack of a fire report, $200 seems insignificant, especially when the rural residents were given Fire Protection Services from a Dept that they didn't pay to support.

    Residents living in the city limits were provided Fire Reports free of charge. In retrospect, it may have violated NC public records laws, but the citizens were given another chance to vote, and the tax district issue passed, so the $200 fee has gone bye-bye.
    I work for an insurance company. HEre some FACTS, not opinions.

    1. There is no insurance law in this country that would allow an insurance company to deny a claim because the insured could not produce a fire report. None.

    2. Insurance companies are required by law in every state to conduct an independent investigation of the loss in order to determine the facts of the case. Part of that investigation is contacting the public agencies involved and obtaining their reports. This requirement is one of the reasons I get paid a good amount of money to conduct fire investigations.

    3. The insurance policy is a legally binding business contract. It spells out what the insurance company's responsibilities are and what the insured's responsibilities are. There is a seperate section of the policy that clearly explains why the insurance can deny your claim. They include material misrepresentation, non-cooperation, fraud and deceit, etc.

    4. If the insurance company is going to deny the claim, it is a legal process. The insured must be notified in a legally-defined fashion, with wording citing what section of the policy they violated and an explanation of how they violated it. There is an appeal process. The insured also has thr right to sue the insurance company if the appeals process is not succesful.

    5. If aninsurance company is found to have denied a claim for a non-valid reason, they can be found to have acted in bad faith. If a court finds they acted in bad faith, they are subject to a penalty of triple damages plus legal fees. Therefore, insurance companies invest alot of time and resources into being certain that their denials are on solid ground.

    6. Denying an insured's claim because theydid not send in a fire report would be a blatant case of bad faith. An insured canonly be held responsibile for producing documents and records that are under their direct custody and control. Fire reports do not fall under that category.

    7. Your story is BS and you know nothing about insurance.

    8. A "reasonable" fee for a fire report is one that takes into considerationt he time, money and resources to complete that report (not the time spent conducting the activity that is the subject of the report). No insaurance company is going to balk at paying a reasonable fee for a fire report ever.

    9. $200, in that light, is a ridicuous amount of money to charge.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I work for an insurance company. HEre some FACTS, not opinions.

    1. There is no insurance law in this country that would allow an insurance company to deny a claim because the insured could not produce a fire report. None.
    That didn't stop people from paying the $200 fee.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    2. Insurance companies are required by law in every state to conduct an independent investigation of the loss in order to determine the facts of the case. Part of that investigation is contacting the public agencies involved and obtaining their reports. This requirement is one of the reasons I get paid a good amount of money to conduct fire investigations.
    That didn't stop people from paying $200 either. And you think passing a law makes it so? Automotive liability insurance is required on every motor vehicle operating on our Nation's roads, but despite that, the Insurance Research Council reports that about 1 in 6 drivers has none. Insurance companies frequently cut corners on the investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    3. The insurance policy is a legally binding business contract. It spells out what the insurance company's responsibilities are and what the insured's responsibilities are. There is a seperate section of the policy that clearly explains why the insurance can deny your claim. They include material misrepresentation, non-cooperation, fraud and deceit, etc.
    That didn't stop people from paying $200 either.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    4. If the insurance company is going to deny the claim, it is a legal process. The insured must be notified in a legally-defined fashion, with wording citing what section of the policy they violated and an explanation of how they violated it. There is an appeal process. The insured also has thr right to sue the insurance company if the appeals process is not succesful.
    That didn't stop people from paying $200 either.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    5. If an insurance company is found to have denied a claim for a non-valid reason, they can be found to have acted in bad faith. If a court finds they acted in bad faith, they are subject to a penalty of triple damages plus legal fees. Therefore, insurance companies invest a lot of time and resources into being certain that their denials are on solid ground.
    That didn't stop people from paying $200 either.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    6. Denying an insured's claim because they did not send in a fire report would be a blatant case of bad faith. An insured can only be held responsibile for producing documents and records that are under their direct custody and control. Fire reports do not fall under that category.
    Funny, that didn't stop people from paying $200 either.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    7. Your story is BS and you know nothing about insurance.
    It's absolutely true George, despite how much of an expert you believe yourself to be, or how much of a "redneck hoople" or "troll" you believe me to be. You cannot attest to something that happened in a place that you've never been. And by the way, I didn't claim to know much about insurance, but at least I can spell it. And despite what any law requires, the insurance companies want you to believe that they require a "report" to substantiate the insurance claim. Anyone who has filed an insurance claim knows this. They did so when my truck was broken into last year, and over $1,500 of goodies was lifted.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    8. A "reasonable" fee for a fire report is one that takes into consideration the time, money and resources to complete that report (not the time spent conducting the activity that is the subject of the report). No insaurance company is going to balk at paying a reasonable fee for a fire report ever.
    The insurance companies weren't paying the fee, those making an insurance claim were.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    9. $200, in that light, is a ridicuous amount of money to charge.
    And that's your opinion. I didn't endorse, denounce, or deny the existence of the practice. I just stated what the practice was, and the circumstances that let to it. The practice began more than 25 years ago, and has been discontinued for at least 10. But you sit back with your omnipotent key board and the deny the existence of practices that you know nothing about.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    So let's summarize...

    1. You don't deny anything I wrote is true.

    2. What you stated about insurance companies denying claims because the people didn't get a FD report is untrue

    3. Extorting $200 from people who required your services is OK because they paid it.

    4. You know nothing about insurance.

    And despite what any law requires, the insurance companies want you to believe that they require a "report" to substantiate the insurance claim. Anyone who has filed an insurance claim knows this.
    Of course they require a report. They want to make sure the incident was reported to the police. That does not mean they are legally permitted to deny your claim if you can't provide it. Every insurance co. subscribes to at least on service (like Metro Reporting) that specializes in record acquisition.

    Insurance companies frequently cut corners on the investigation.
    Really? Your source for this gem would be?????

    But you sit back with your omnipotent key board and the deny the existence of practices that you know nothing about.
    I didn't deny that some FD looking to take advantage of a citizen's unfortunate circumstances actually occurred. I was denying your story about insurance companies denying claims because a person couldn't provide a report. Then I provided facts to back it up. Trust me, tex, I have forgotten more about insurance than you would ever hope to know.
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    I have 2 requests from insurance companies sitting here right now. 1 included a $5 bill, the other a $3 check. They will both get copies of the report.

    Let me see, I am volunteer, so my pay rate is $0. As a Chief, I get a bonus of 15% on top of that. It will take me 5 minutes to print 2 copies of the report, but would bill a total of 30 mins time as a minimum. So, 30 mins * ($0 * 1.15) = $0 so that would be the cost involved.

    Plus, each insurance company enclosed a self addressed, postage marked, envelope.


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    $200.00 for a copy of the fire report? Not only is this unheard of, but what does this say about the public image of this practice? As others have stated, check your state stats on open records and the fees that can be LEGALLY charged.

    By the way txgp17, up until last week, Wisconsin was one of a handful of states that did not require any insurance of any type on an automobile unless it was financed.

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    Default Open Public Records

    I would encourage each department to research the "Sunshine Laws" Statute that is for your particular state.

    Since fire departments are governmental entities (non-profits providing fire protection are deemed carrying out a public service) their records (financial, etc.) are usually Open Public Records.

    Most Sunshine Statutes list particular instances where records do not have to be revealed (medical records, cause of fire that is under investigation, etc.).

    Unless you are exempted, your records are OPEN PUBLIC RECORDS. If a fire report is requested, the Sunshine Statute that pertains to your state might allow you to charge for producing the record to the requestor (postage, copying costs, etc.)

    While I am not a lawyer, most likely your records (except for certain exemptions) must be produced when requested.

    I know of some fire dept's that will not (illegal!) reveal their financial records. When they want me to donate to their organization, I say no. No open records, no donation!

    It is not the right thing to $oak anyone for a copy of a fire report. It may be illegal to overcharge them. Do the right thing and produce the record, as required by law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIRE117 View Post
    I would encourage each department to research the "Sunshine Laws" Statute that is for your particular state.

    Since fire departments are governmental entities (non-profits providing fire protection are deemed carrying out a public service) their records (financial, etc.) are usually Open Public Records.

    Most Sunshine Statutes list particular instances where records do not have to be revealed (medical records, cause of fire that is under investigation, etc.).

    Unless you are exempted, your records are OPEN PUBLIC RECORDS. If a fire report is requested, the Sunshine Statute that pertains to your state might allow you to charge for producing the record to the requestor (postage, copying costs, etc.)

    While I am not a lawyer, most likely your records (except for certain exemptions) must be produced when requested.

    I know of some fire dept's that will not (illegal!) reveal their financial records. When they want me to donate to their organization, I say no. No open records, no donation!

    It is not the right thing to $oak anyone for a copy of a fire report. It may be illegal to overcharge them. Do the right thing and produce the record, as required by law.
    There were some urban dictatorships in NJ that were preventing access to public records by stretching the boundaries of the exemptions and charging exhorbitant fees.

    The NJ Legislature responded by taking away most of the exemptions and limiting what can be charged.

    $200 would NEVER fly in NJ for a fire report.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    So let's summarize...

    1. You don't deny anything I wrote is true.
    I don't have to, cause nothing you wrote bears on the situation that existed. People either paid the fee, or they didn't get a report. Whether or not they got paid by the insurance company is unknown to me, but almost everyone paid the $200, cause the insurance companies were requesting a copy of the Fire Report.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    2. What you stated about insurance companies denying claims because the people didn't get a FD report is untrue
    I didn't say the insurance companies were denying claims. I'm saying that insurance companies asked for it, not once was the policy challenged by either an insurance company, or an individual. The insurance companies always ask for one, you admitted this yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    3. Extorting $200 from people who required your services is OK because they paid it.
    It wasn't extortion because it wasn't criminal. For someone who so frequently claims to be a holier than thou LEO, you ought to know this.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    4. You know nothing about insurance.
    Funny, I didn't claim to. I'm talking about fire reports, you're stuck on insurance.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Of course they require a report.
    Wait, I thought it wasn't required. Wasn't that item #1 in one of your previous posts? Pick a stance and stick with it Georgie, is it required or not?
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    They want to make sure the incident was reported to the police.
    Now you're the spokesperson for the insurance industry huh? The police had nothing to do with it, nor did the Sheriff's Dept. As it was, 90% of the time, no LEO responded at all except to watch us or help direct traffic. In the time & locale where this happened, Law Enforcement was never involved in fire investigations, unless the county Fire Marshall requested it.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    That does not mean they are legally permitted to deny your claim if you can't provide it.
    Show me one place in any of my posts where I said it was legal to do that. I dare ya. I double dog ya.

    The insurance company always requests a copy of the report before a claim is paid. As such, people, who did not pay Fire taxes, paid the $200 fee so they could expediently get paid for their claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Every insurance co. subscribes to at least on service (like Metro Reporting) that specializes in record acquisition.
    They might now, but did they 15-16 years ago? I didn't think so. Your making asserts of the present upon conditions that existed in the past.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Really? Your source for this gem would be?????
    Oh, you can make unsubstantiated claims about insurance laws in all 50 states, but when I make on based on my personal experiences, you want a source. You're reading too many of the liberal posts here Georgie.

    Experience with them not investigating any and all claims is my source. You're asserting that there has never been a fire that wasn't investigated by an insurance company. That's simple nonsense Georgie.

    It's a simple cost benefit analysis. Where's the advantage of treating every incident like it's arson? That only drives up the cost of doing business, which hurts profits. If you deny this then you're financially illiterate.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I was denying your story about insurance companies denying claims because a person couldn't provide a report. Then I provided facts to back it up. Trust me, tex, I have forgotten more about insurance than you would ever hope to know.
    The only person using the term "deny" is you. I never said that people filed claims without a fire report, and had their claims denied as a result. You're inventing things to support your position.

    The insurance companies requested the reports, this is something that you don't deny. People want to get paid and they want to get paid quickly. Where's the benefit of taking an insurance company to court over a $200 fee? There is none. People paid it, and moved on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty42 View Post
    $200.00 for a copy of the fire report? Not only is this unheard of,
    So because you haven't heard of it, then it shouldn't/couldn't ever exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty42 View Post
    but what does this say about the public image of this practice?
    A lot better than one of refusing to fight fires that were 1' beyond the city limits, or that of a home burning to the ground inside the city limits because we lacked adequate funds prevented a critical repair to a rig that broke down fighting a fire in the county. It was the lesser of all the evils, until the people in that area passed a referendum allowing a tax to be levied. Are you saying we should have continued to fighter their fires for free?
    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty42 View Post
    As others have stated, check your state stats on open records and the fees that can be LEGALLY charged.
    Did you even bother to read the posts? As I said in my first post, it was years ago, and in the 2nd post, it's not present practice. Some reading comprehension would be nice. And NC's public records laws were significantly revised in the 1990's when this practice of charging $200 stopped, and thus, it was legal. So take your "that's illegal" crap and stick it. When we were doing it, it was legal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty42 View Post
    By the way txgp17, up until last week, Wisconsin was one of a handful of states that did not require any insurance of any type on an automobile unless it was financed.
    So, 5 days ago, which is not last week but THIS WEEK, when I made the statement, it was true. I don't see how your comment has any bearing on the discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by FIRE117 View Post
    It is not the right thing to $oak anyone for a copy of a fire report. It may be illegal to overcharge them. Do the right thing and produce the record, as required by law.
    If the law exists, which isn't the case at all times in the past, or at all locales. And it's not a "$oak" if they're receiving the Fire Protection free of charge.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    $200 would NEVER fly in NJ for a fire report.
    What is that supposed to mean? NJ's law about not being able to pump your own gas would NEVER fly in NC, so there.

    As was stated, I live NC, not NJ. Try to keep up with the details Georgie.
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    People either paid the fee, or they didn't get a report.
    That's called extortion. Great attitude for people that you serve who are in need.

    I didn't say the insurance companies were denying claims.
    Liar. You wrote:

    When you cannot be paid $20,000 by the insurance company for lack of a fire report, $200 seems insignificant

    It wasn't extortion because it wasn't criminal.
    It may be. Even if it's not, it is ethically and morally repugnant.

    is it required or not?
    As I said before, of course it is required. But it is NOT required that the insured provide it. As I said, you know nothing about insurance.

    Show me one place in any of my posts where I said it was legal to do that. I dare ya. I double dog ya.
    I guess when you are desperately trying to save face because the BS flag has been shoved down your throat, you will resort to anything. As I pointed out above, you said insurance cos. were denying claims if the insured didn't produce a fire report. I was pointing out to you that not only was it not true, it would not be legal for an insurance co. to do this. Try to keep up, huh?

    They might now, but did they 15-16 years ago?
    They most certainly did. Many years ago, these companies employed folks to go around and gather the reports. Now they do it mainly be mail and electronic mail. Please try not to argue about things you have absolutely no idea about. It's embarrassing for you.

    Experience with them not investigating any and all claims is my source.
    Really? You really want to go with that?

    You're asserting that there has never been a fire that wasn't investigated by an insurance company.
    I'm telling you that every fire claim is investigated at some level. Many times, in the case of minor fires, the case is investigated by the adjuster by reviewing the fire reports. If all seems in order, they proceed with adjusting the claim. THAT'S WHY THEY NEED THE FIRE REPORT, GENIUS!

    What is that supposed to mean? NJ's law about not being able to pump your own gas would NEVER fly in NC, so there.
    Because those laws are exactly the same.

    Your ignorance shows no bounds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    That's called extortion. Great attitude for people that you serve who are in need.
    Wait, I thought you said that they couldn't be denied a claim for lack of a fire report. If that were true, then why did anyone pay the $200? Why didn't they just file a claim and get their money without the report? Why did so many people pay it? There's a serious fallacy in your logic here George.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Liar. You wrote:

    When you cannot be paid $20,000 by the insurance company for lack of a fire report, $200 seems insignificant
    The insurance company asked for a report. People paid the fee so they could get $$$ expediently. As you admitted, the insurance company requires a copy of the Fire Report. So what is George, is it required or not? You can't have it both ways.

    An while you're at, I'd like to see you cite the laws in all 50 states that require insurance companies to conduct an independent investigation of the loss in order to determine the facts of the case.

    Not once did anyone refuse to pay and demand a report, that's not to say there were no complaints.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    It may be. Even if it's not, it is ethically and morally repugnant.
    Only to a holier-than-thou person like you. What was the alternative? Refuse to fight their fires? If we fight their fires for free why not everyone else's? Then we can run the Dept into the ground for lack of revenues and have no fire protection for anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    As I said before, of course it is required. But it is NOT required that the insured provide it. As I said, you know nothing about insurance.
    I wasn't speaking to the requirements. I was speaking to the events that occurred. We required $200 and people paid. I don't recall anyone not paying it.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I guess when you are desperately trying to save face because the BS flag has been shoved down your throat, you will resort to anything. As I pointed out above, you said insurance cos. were denying claims if the insured didn't produce a fire report. I was pointing out to you that not only was it not true, it would not be legal for an insurance co. to do this. Try to keep up, huh?
    You've made unsubstantiated claims George, nothing else. If it wasn't required then why did people pay the $200? If it wasn't required, then how could it be extortion?
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    They most certainly did. Many years ago, these companies employed folks to go around and gather the reports. Now they do it mainly be mail and electronic mail. Please try not to argue about things you have absolutely no idea about. It's embarrassing for you.
    Funny I never saw them in my town. Who's making things up now? I love it when some some know-it-all makes statements about conditions they assert existed in every part of every state of the Union. You don't live or work here George. You know nothing about what goes on here, you especially know nothing about what went on 15 years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Really? You really want to go with that?
    Apparantly I have to type it twice for you to understand it.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I'm telling you that every fire claim is investigated at some level.
    Oh, now it's "some level", which might entail a clerk looking over it an rubber stamping it to pay the claim. Nice backstroke George.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Many times, in the case of minor fires, the case is investigated by the adjuster by reviewing the fire reports. If all seems in order, they proceed with adjusting the claim. THAT'S WHY THEY NEED THE FIRE REPORT, GENIUS!
    So what do they do in the absence of a Fire Report brain-boy?
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Your ignorance shows no bounds.
    At least I have the humility to speak to the circumstances that existed in a specific time and place, while kocky-wish-they-knew-it-all-blowhards like you make asinine assertions about things that occurred, not only in a time and place they have no experience with, but from sea to shining sea no less.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

  19. #19
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    In the future, I will no longer reply to these rambling manifestos that you obsessively post. Every single question you ask and every single point you brought up in this post I addressed in previous posts. You didn't like the answer. Your response to not liking the answer is to ignore the answer.

    I work in the insurance industry, investigating fires, every single day. I am fairly certain that, to virtually everyone else on here, it is abundantly clear that what I am telling you is solidly rooted in fact.

    Let me summarize:

    1. Every single fire claim is investigated. The level of investigation is based on many factors including the size of the loss. No claim is "rubber-stamped".

    2. THere are insurance laws in every state that require an insurance co. to conduct an objective, independent investigation into every claim. That is why we employ a staff of about 200 investigators across the country.

    3. There is no insurance rule, regulation or law that allows an insurance co. to deny a claim if the insured cannot provide a fire report. None.

    4. $200 was an unethical, immoral and reprehensible price to charge for a fire report. I could not possibly care less if people paid it or not.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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