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  1. #1

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    Default unit designation

    i currently serve as a deputy chief in our rescue squad.
    we serve as the rescue company for 10 departments.
    i have noticed for some time the change in truck designation on the
    radio.ie., 620 is now Tanker 620. It makes since to me and i think some
    where in the NIMS stuff it references that . I am trying to get the Chief to
    understand we too ought to change ours. ie 503 Should be Rescue 503 and a
    ambulance be Rescue Medic 9 and so forth. anyone know where any backup info i can get on this to prove my case. i just now got them seeing how we ought to retro the trucks with the chevron backs.


  2. #2
    Forum Member PaladinKnight's Avatar
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    I agree that conforming to THE SYSTEM might be a good idea if all agencies are converting. Standardization and interoperability are important keys to success.

    However... you may be pushing a bit on this issue. If your Chief is the Final Authority on Truck Assignments and Designations, you may be overstepping your boundaries. Nothing that anyone can offer you can give you permission to push the envelop on this.

    Only once in my Chief years have I had to smack down a Subordinate Officer. He appointed himself to rewrite the protocols and policies and brought them to me so I could advance them. I wasn't in the mood and he was out of line for doing so. I advised him that when I had some time to read them, I would take a look at them. I was trying to be kind and not make an issue out of it.

    But he didn't accept my answer and decided to take it over my head to my Boss. When my Boss called me and we visited about the issue we agreed that the young man must be put in his place. He received a 2-grade demotion for his hard work and dedication to his own agenda. Assistant Chief to Captain in 3 easy lessons. I'll add this: he is no longer on my team since he couldn't get over the reassignment.

    What many Officers forget when they begin to climb the ladder is your Chief most likely had something to do with your advancement. In other words... he made you. You should consider that he can un-make you just as easy.

    As a Deputy Chief, your primary job is to clear the path for your Chief. You answer to him and only him. You must serve him whether you agree or not. Mutiny is still a hanging offense; pun intended.

    Also, as Deputy Chief, you have been charged with responsibility based upon trust and skill. You are alot closer to the top than the bottom. Perhaps when it is your time, you can make those decisions. But I sure would not push this issue, now. Your position does not give you the right to insist or push a policy just because others do it. Your Chief will determine the time and place, maybe.

    Please be patient. Sometimes things happen for a reason. There is only one Chief and he runs the show.

    Sorry to beat you up on this, but I'm trying to keep you from making a mistake. There is nothing wrong with being the advocate for change, but you must have an open invitation to the discussion.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber BULL321's Avatar
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    Why change? We are having this discussion in our county as well. Certain depts. what to change the way all the depts. in the county name and number their trucks. We already have a system in place, example, the first number is the depts. designation, My depts. personnel and trucks are all 300 units. 300 is the fire house, 301 - 334 are for personnel, vehicles are: 350, chief's vehicle, 351, mini pumper/brush truck, 352 tanker, 353 - 355 engines, 356 support truck. If you have two tankers the next number would be 362, 372, 382 and so on. This system was set up years ago and has worked well. But as depts. have grown and new trucks have been purchased certain depts. have not followed the "guide lines" and have numbered their units out of order. Now some (2 depts. out of 7) want to change the way trucks are number, to (dept. name) engine one, (dept. name) tanker one and so on. With seven fire depts. do we really need to have seven engine ones. How is that going to clear up things. (note: if this is how you number your trucks, no offense meant, its just not the way we do it.) Say your at a large commercial fire, with 4 mutual depts. IC gives the command for (dept name) engine one, to kill the red attack line. The radios being what they are, the dept name is garbled, the wrong truck shuts down the wrong line, someone get hurt or killed. Well you killed "Billy" but we sure sounded cool out in scanner land, this was a great idea.

    That being said the chiefs that want to change the system want each dept. to pay out of their own pocket to re-letter their trucks, which if you have gold-leaf under clear coat, will not be cheap. Why change the system that has been in place for years, its because they feel the need to keep up with the Jones? Or maybe they feel like, because some larger paid depts. do it we should do it. Maybe they think that they will feel more important if they sound like, oh I don't know, say like Charlotte (great dept. by the way) instead of a VFD in Jackson County. Why not be proud of who you are, your dept. and the traditions that have already been established? Why do you feel they need to fit in. Again why try to fix something that is not broken?

    As far as the chevrons goes, great idea, good luck

    Stay Safe
    Bull
    Stay Safe
    Bull


    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
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  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber BULL321's Avatar
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    By the way, how much snow/sleat did you guys get in Cashiers last night?

    Stay Safe
    Bull
    Stay Safe
    Bull


    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
    - Capt. Marc Cox CFD

    Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
    -WINSTON CHURCHILL
    http://sylvafiredeptnc.tripod.com

  5. #5
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    I can see how identifying the unit as an engine 1101 or tanker 1104 might help in a mutual aid assist. If the department you are assisting is unfamiliar with your apparatus numbers then it would tell them what is en route. We begun using this format since July. Ultimately, it is up to the Chief if he thinks it should happen.

  6. #6
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    Bull, we have about 3 inches, just N of Jefferson and still going. How bout you?

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber BULL321's Avatar
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    farmerfire1156
    I don't have a problem with want you call your trucks. The problem that I have, is when one dept. wants to make everyone else change what they call their trucks, to match with theirs. One dept. could care less, they changed their numbering system to better manage their large fleet of trucks and which station/sub-station rolls what truck, the other dept./chief , which by the way is still using the old system, is using their change to try and force everyone else change, all because he thinks it sounds better and he likes to try to impose his will on everyone else.

    As to the snow, we only got a slight dusting.
    Stay Safe
    Bull


    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
    - Capt. Marc Cox CFD

    Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
    -WINSTON CHURCHILL
    http://sylvafiredeptnc.tripod.com

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BULL321 View Post
    farmerfire1156
    I don't have a problem with want you call your trucks. The problem that I have, is when one dept. wants to make everyone else change what they call their trucks, to match with theirs. One dept. could care less, they changed their numbering system to better manage their large fleet of trucks and which station/sub-station rolls what truck, the other dept./chief , which by the way is still using the old system, is using their change to try and force everyone else change, all because he thinks it sounds better and he likes to try to impose his will on everyone else.

    As to the snow, we only got a slight dusting.
    Understand, and I didnt think there was a problem. Our communications director chose to change our station numbers back in '08. We went from Station 1100 to 11, others from 700 to 7 and 1400 to 14. Wasnt a big change. Then he wanted to standarize the Chiefs numbers within the county. Ours went to Unit 10 which has nothing to do with station 11. He used the NIMS excuse to get what he wanted done in which he learned from where he dispatched in Boone. We didnt agree with it but thought at the time it was going to come down the pipe from upper management so we went with it. I still think that identifying as engine 1101 or engine 1102 is good to help with mutual aid but everyone should be on the same page. Here we provide mutual aid to Tennessee. They dont call on us much and likewise, but when we check enroute to their dispatch they know what we are rolling and we usually beat them by 10 minutes average. We have not changed the numbers on the apparatus, we just say what type of resource it is. If we had to change the numbers to say Engine 1101, we probably would simply quit saying it. That's my two cents on the post and it aint much.

  9. #9
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    Angry

    I would hate to support someone who wants to make a change for the better!!! All hear anymore from guys in the service is "How we use to do it" or "Why fix something when it's not broke". Some Chiefs just want to move forward!!! Don't get stuck in a rut.

  10. #10
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    Paladin makes very good points. Don't tick off your chief. But I saw it somewhere in NIMS also along with the standardization. Our number is county-wide. Each city/dept is issued a "district number" and then numbers their stations from there. Thus, if you were an engine in city #4 out of station 2, you would be Engine 42. Vehicles fall under the following categories usually: Engine, Rescue, Ladder, Ambulance, Battalion, Tanker, Grass, Utility and Boat. If chiefs are out and about, they use their individual number (i.e. 4100) or one dept calls them Car 40. And for the most part, that's the way all the suburbs in the area do it. The big city just uses their vehicle type and station number (no city number), but they've also got about 40 stations.

  11. #11
    Forum Member Ambrose33's Avatar
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    In my county we dont have a County Wide Dispatch Center we all have our own Police Department dispatch centers doing all the calls. On our own frequency we designate ourselves as Engine 2, Engine 3, Squad 1, Tower 1, Rescue 1, Car 1(chief) etc. When we have a mutual aid call in the county we do sign onto a County Wide Mutual Aid frequency and at that time we say Our towns name and then unit designation. Its been a very easy concept and we've had no problems with this system.
    Stay safe!

  12. #12
    Forum Member Doorbreaker's Avatar
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    Our county uses a simple system. Each rig receives a number based on a simple code.
    1XX engines, 2XX Command rigs , 3XX tankers, 4XX trucks/aerials, 5XX rescues, 6XX ambulances.
    ALL of these numbers get preceeded with the name of the fire department.

    Van Hornesville 135 = Engine from Van Hornesville Fire
    Cedarville 522 = Rescue from Cedarville Fire Dept.
    Ilion 626 = Ambulance from Ilion Fire Dept.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber BULL321's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shane1704 View Post
    I would hate to support someone who wants to make a change for the better!!! All hear anymore from guys in the service is "How we use to do it" or "Why fix something when it's not broke". Some Chiefs just want to move forward!!! Don't get stuck in a rut.
    I would hate to support someone who just wants to make a change all for the sake of making a change. "Don't worry about training and becoming good at your job. Your a ff we gave you a t-shirt. What we need to work on is changing what we call our fire trucks, so we sound like we're on the cutting edge." Give me a break.
    Stay Safe
    Bull


    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
    - Capt. Marc Cox CFD

    Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
    -WINSTON CHURCHILL
    http://sylvafiredeptnc.tripod.com

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber dfd701's Avatar
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    Hey Bull: I like your handle by the way. Seems everyone is deferent on what they call there units and this county is that way. Our department was the first to come up with a numbering scheme. Our department numbers are 7. I picked 7 because it is my lucky number and no other department used numbers to id there departments. 700 is the station, 701 is the chief and all the firefighters had ascending numbers on up. Our units or trucks have engine-9,engine-7, tanker 7 and so forth. We give the dispatch a list of all that. Oh and I should say we have our on channel so that helps us and the dispatch. If we are on an mutual aid call than we do use our department name followed by tanker -7. The other department would know they have a tanker coming. Now over the years other departments started doing it the same way but their two FD's just using numbers for the members and trucks, like 1401 to 1420 is firefighters and 1440,1448 and so on as the trucks. Now I still not sure. Are they sending me a engine or a firefighter. i just like for them to just say it. Engine xyx is in route. That is what I like to hear but we are all defrerent. You all have a good day and stay safe.

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