1. #1

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    Default Darley/Waterous/Hale Pumps

    My department is currently in the process of specing out a new pumper tanker with a 3500 gallon tank and a 1250 gallon per minute pump. We were wondering what the pros and cons are to choosing one pump manufacturer over the others. What has everyone's experience been with the different pump manufacturers? All we know is that the Darley comes standard with our manufacurer, the waterous is a $6000 option, and the Hale is a $7500 option. What is everyone's thoughts on the subject?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcdeaver View Post
    My department is currently in the process of specing out a new pumper tanker with a 3500 gallon tank and a 1250 gallon per minute pump. We were wondering what the pros and cons are to choosing one pump manufacturer over the others. What has everyone's experience been with the different pump manufacturers? All we know is that the Darley comes standard with our manufacurer, the waterous is a $6000 option, and the Hale is a $7500 option. What is everyone's thoughts on the subject?
    Like apparatus mfgs them selves I'm sure you'll get a few conflicting answers to this. But I'll have a go at it anyway. My dept. is now 100% Hale. We have had some waterous in the past, but as they got older they were more often in need of some sort of repair...be it the packing or what ever. So the mechanic in charge of fleet maintianence put his foot down and it's Hale only. When we specked out tanker, Hale (at the time) was the only one that had their own foam system that was the most relyable. The other pump mfgs, (so we're told) we doing 3rd party. I have no expierance with Darley pumps. Good luck with your new water jug.
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    There has to be a reason why Darley is that much cheaper. They don't have a good reputation in my area. Apparently the huge number of models and frequent design changes means poor availalbility of repair parts (accumulate orders fpr parts until have qty for efficient production vs repair parts on shelf for immediate shipment). Talking months.

    I have Hale though so no personal experience with Darley parts. A deadlined pump is not worth anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireinfo10 View Post
    There has to be a reason why Darley is that much cheaper. They don't have a good reputation in my area. Apparently the huge number of models and frequent design changes means poor availalbility of repair parts (accumulate orders fpr parts until have qty for efficient production vs repair parts on shelf for immediate shipment). Talking months.

    I have Hale though so no personal experience with Darley parts. A deadlined pump is not worth anything.
    Someone else said something similar about Darley parts on the forum once. I have never heard it anywhere else but here. But, I have only been around fire pumps, Darley included, about 35 years so I am a pup.

    I have never had a problem getting anything pump related from Darley.

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    From the EVT point of view, I prefer Darley and Waterous over Hale. Waterous is the best in providing info for the mechanic. Their web site is awesome! Darley has the best packing arrangement, in my opinion. Hale has gears in the T-case and the pain in the butt autolube on the front of the shaft. Hale does have good tech support if you get the right guy.
    From the users point of view, the dept. I volunteer with has nothing but Waterous and we have never had pump trouble. Just packing adjustments from time to time. Some manufactures have deals with suppliers. If you offer our "XYZ" as standard, we will give you a price break. That could explain the big price differance.
    The A/C is not cold enough, the warning lights are not bright enough, siren is not loud enough, the C.D. player skips every time we jump a curb, cab doors only open to 89.5* and it's been like this since day one!!!!

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    I'm not the biggest fan of Darley's midship pumps. We've got one at my career department, and there's a number of reasons there's only one. While some like the packing system, I'm not a fan of it. It has to be adjusted frequenly and new packing pellets installed often, assuming it gets much use. We've also had fits with the pressure relief valve. That's just the issues I've seen since I've been there.

    When it comes to Hale and Waterous, I think they're both quality pumps and you can't go wrong with either. When we specced our pumper-tanker, we ended up going with Waterous. We were able to get a 1750 gpm for less than we were going to get a 1500 Hale. I'm betting it's mainly a manufacturer's thing as to what's cheaper. As a side note, they were pushing us to get a pedestal pump with them building the intake and discharge manifolds, which I wasn't a fan of. I like the expandability of a cast midship.

    I will throw a couple of things out for you to consider, though. Are you looking at the stainless steel valves? I believe Hale and Waterous are both offering them as options, and I'm willing to bet Darley has some option for them. For the little more that they cost, we went with them. At the time, Waterous wasn't doing them yet, so we got Hale valves on our Waterous pump.

    Also, is there a reason you're limiting your gpm to 1250? The cost difference between a full-sized 1250 to a 1500, or even higher, is minimal. Now, if you're giong with one of the smaller pumps or a pedestal pump with manufactured manifolds, I can understand, as they're limited to 1250.

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    We have 500 GPM Darley's on our tankers, these are a "portable" pump. The only issues we have had is the packing. If you run the pump you need to tighten the packing. We have both Hale and Waterous pumps on our engines we have had very little problems with any of them. Packing is about the only problem we every seem to have. In the late 90's we was having problems with Hale's oil-less primer, but they have went away for whatever reason. The new engine that is on order is a Waterous, main reason - cost.

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    Default Pumps

    Been around pumps since 1980,

    The Hale's Ive been around have been OK, noisy lil buggers though with the gears.

    LDM 1000 Darley in my old tanker needed to be rebuilt at 12-13 years, also a noisy gear driven pump.
    When delivered, the recommended pump oil in her was 30 wt, they sent a letter years later to drain and replace with 90w.

    Waterous, several 750 2 stages
    1750 single
    1500 single
    and the latest was an S100 pedestal pump.
    Quiet pumps, larger panel than a Darley and Hale.
    Great performance.
    Chain drive with ATF lubricant and a grease zerk for the bearing.

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    Default Pump Selection

    I have operated both Hale and Waterous pumps. Not familiar with Darley, though.

    Best to ask your pump mechanic. If your department does not have your own pump mechanic, contact the firm that does the pump maintenance for you.

    In my part of the country, we usually specify Waterous. They have been in business since the late 1800's. In fact, one department where I was chief at, had an antique 1904 horse drawn pumper for parades.

    Alot of departments in my area have/had FMC/Bean or Barton-American pumps. Neither is manufactured anymore. A pump without replacement parts becomes a boat anchor if you cannot obtain the parts to maintain and service it.

    Your mechanic has had the hands on experience working on pumps and can provide you with valuable info on what to buy or avoid. The pump salesman will be long gone after you purchase the truck. The mechanic will be there to work on it.

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    I can't say anything on the Darley pumps, never owned one, or worked on one.

    My preference will side on the Waterous pumps. With close to 75 rigs with pumps, only 4 have Hale pumps on them. With the Hale pumps, replacing the packing is a PITA, and needs to be done more often than the Waterous pumps.

    I would recommend either the Hale or Waterous pumps over the Darley. Market wise, Darley only has about a 15% share, with the rest split almost evenly between the other two.

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    We've had a couple Darley's in the past. As the units are phased out they will be replaced with Hales.While I think the Waterous is quite possibly the best Firepump out there we've had exceptional reliability and service life from our Hales.And as we have most of the fleet with Hale pumps,it's likely we'll be Hale for a long time to come.Service and support have been exceptional.Our experiences with Darley mirror some of the rest of yours,never had a problem getting parts,but OURS need service/rebuild more often than OUR Hales.And NO,we're not always on City water. I WILL say we've had good luck with our Darley 600gpm "portables".My suggestion would be to talk to whoever does your pump testing/service and see what they favor.There's usually a reason. T.C.

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    117,You might find it interesting to know that Barton/american IS still around just under the new name DARLEY.If I remember correctly,the Darleys bought the BA line and continued to produce the product,albeit improved,under the Darley flag.The darleys have been building pumps for a long time. T.C.

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    Default Barton/American/Godiva/Hale

    Quote from hale's website:

    "In 1989, Hale acquired Godiva in Warwick, England. Godiva is a manufacturer of portable, high-pressure, and rear-mounted fire pumps and is one of the leading fire pump manufacturers outside the United States. This acquisition allowed Hale to bring the USA based Barton/American Godiva fire pump products under the Hale umbrella of products."

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    Odd,I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Darley had absorbed what was left of BA. Their small pumps bear an uncanny resemblance. Wouldn't be the first time I transposed thoughts. T.C.

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    Default The memory is first

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Odd,I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Darley had absorbed what was left of BA. Their small pumps bear an uncanny resemblance. Wouldn't be the first time I transposed thoughts. T.C.
    The first thing to go is the memory. You don't want to know what is next Tim.

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    Tom, I think you have it backwards!!!

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    If you can check the Rosenbauer pump. with their autoprimer. We currently are developing a tanker and it will have that pump. We also have a foam unit with that pump and it had work flawlessly.

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    Default Maybe but I hope not

    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaronl32 View Post
    Tom, I think you have it backwards!!!
    Tony, you could be correct, but the way I see it, if the other thing goes I don't want to remember how much I enjoyed it before it went so I'm pulling for the memory to go first.

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    we had a 750gpm darley front mount on one of our tankers and it was a pile, about every 3 years the pump had to be completely rebuilt (but according to darley there was no problem with the pump)
    ~Big O~

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    Thats funny, we have used Darley pumps for many many years here in Australia, in fact 95% of the pumps in service with career departments are Darley, we tried Waterous for a while, they were all rebuilt after a couple years and have been nothing but trouble, so we went back to Darley. I know they are trialing a HALE pump at my career department now, so see how that goes.

    At my volunteer station they have used Darley pumps for at least 30 years, our last pumper had a rebuild at 10 years and that was it.

    Currently have a Rosenbaur......its nice, but god the electronics are ****e....one progress thing I don't agree with.

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    Talking Remembering

    Fortunately, there are the blue pills to extend the time frame of whatever I can't remember now!

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    We have two Hale pumps, a 1250GPM midship on the engine and a HP200 engine-driven on the brush truck, and two Darley HP500 pumps on the tankers. None have given us any problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simpleguy68 View Post
    We have two Hale pumps, a 1250GPM midship on the engine and a HP200 engine-driven on the brush truck, and two Darley HP500 pumps on the tankers. None have given us any problems.
    I think that Darley PTO pump you speak of is a HM500.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    Fortunately, there are the blue pills to extend the time frame of whatever I can't remember now!
    i know there were blue pills for extending things ... i didnt know pump life was one of them though
    ~Big O~

    Tankers have wheels and carry water, Tenders are breaded and served with BBQ sauce

    (if you don't believe me Google it)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoosemanKBB527
    i know there were blue pills for extending things ... i didnt know pump life was one of them though
    I could be wrong, but I believe the commercial states the following (para phrased).....

    Gives more extension, as well as longer "pumping" times.

    I can't say one way or the other if it does.
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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