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  1. #41
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Scott View Post
    Amertek builds a combo ARFF/structural truck for the US Army but it's only a 1000 gallon tank. very similar to a P-19.
    See above. It was only 650 gallons. It was also possibly the biggest piece of $hit on four wheels. Amertek is no longer in business, I wonder why........
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."


  2. #42
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    Buck -
    The 12,000 pound steer and 34,000 weight you refer to is for interstate only. Missouri will allow 14,000 and 36,000 on any other roads. You can go up to 20,000 pounds on the steer if you have the axle and tires to do it. Add a drop axle in front of behind the drives and you can gross 54,000 pounds and a second drop and you can go to 66,000 gross. The 54 and 66 is with 14 on the front(these are based on a 22 foot bridge). Also figured into all of that is the bridge and inter-bridge laws. But as Catch said a fire truck is exempt.

    Even though we are exempt in Missouri from weight and size. I would be very concerned about running something so oversize because if you get in a wreck it is something for the lawyers to be on you about.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post

    Even though we are exempt in Missouri from weight and size. I would be very concerned about running something so oversize because if you get in a wreck it is something for the lawyers to be on you about.
    Big is not oversize. If the chassis is rated (axles, brakes, etc) for the GVW then it is NOT oversize or overweight.

    Is the truck/load/weight for the road/terrain? What would the reasonable man do (or perhaps what does the county engineer say about his bridge, culverts, & roadbed. What psi to road surface/axle load?

    My new 3000gal pumper tanker is 18k frt/46k rr tandem. Replaces an old milk truck tanker that was 2600gal 34k rr single. Much safer/more secure. Its big/heavy, but not concerned at al.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireinfo10 View Post
    Big is not oversize. If the chassis is rated (axles, brakes, etc) for the GVW then it is NOT oversize or overweight.

    Is the truck/load/weight for the road/terrain? What would the reasonable man do (or perhaps what does the county engineer say about his bridge, culverts, & roadbed. What psi to road surface/axle load?

    My new 3000gal pumper tanker is 18k frt/46k rr tandem. Replaces an old milk truck tanker that was 2600gal 34k rr single. Much safer/more secure. Its big/heavy, but not concerned at al.
    Actually, big does mean oversize, no matter the weight. Oversize pertains to the dimensions, not weight. Overweight pertains to weight, not dimensions. Oversize and overweight are two different things. Permits differ for both depending on the state, route, and the dimensions and weight.

    Weight is usually forgiven for fire appartus, I don't know about dimensions.
    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDMAXX View Post
    Weight is usually forgiven for fire appartus, I don't know about dimensions.
    In Missouri, both are...

    RSMo 304.172: The provisions of sections 304.170 to 304.240 relating to height, width, weight, length and load restrictions for motor vehicles shall not apply to any motor vehicle and its attached apparatus which is designed for use and used by a fire department, fire protection district or volunteer fire protection association or when being operated by a fire apparatus manufacturer or sales organization for the purpose of sale, demonstration, exhibit, or delivery to a fire department, fire protection district or volunteer fire protection association.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frmboybuck View Post
    Unless you are exempt, yes, thats what I am saying. Now remember, these are federal roads I am speaking of. I cant find anything exempting emergency appataratus from the federal weight and bridge formula limits. From what I am finding, most states do offer exemptions or extentions of some sort. A lot of states allow 67000 for a 3 axle truck on state highways. I would figure light bridges would still apply in some way. My only point is the ARFF trucks are not built for beating up and down the roads. They wont fit in a lot of places, especially rural, southern Missouri.
    I think you may be confusing federal funding with federal control. Weight and bridge formulas are set by each state, and 3 very different examples would be Illinois, Michigan, and here in Wisconsin. Enforcement is also done by the state.

    I'm sure the feds have some limits on weight, speed, and dimension that would keep the states from going too crazy, ( since they provide a certain amount of money, the can call some shots ) but laws are different from state to state because each state makes their own rules.

    Ever notice how the rules change on the interstate when you cross the state line? Same road, but different rules. For an example look up Wisconsin state statute chapter 348, " Vehicles - size, weight, and load." There may be many differences from your state.
    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

  7. #47
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    dfd - thanks

    catch - I know that we are exempt but why push it if you don't have to? I know there are many places that using surplus/homeade is the only option that they have. It wasn't that many years ago that we was in the same boat. I know that they are several surplus trucks out there that make good firetrucks, I just think that when you get to something that is so oversize as the hog that was being talked about at the start of this that it is not a good idea because of the size.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDMAXX View Post
    I think you may be confusing federal funding with federal control. Weight and bridge formulas are set by each state, and 3 very different examples would be Illinois, Michigan, and here in Wisconsin. Enforcement is also done by the state.

    I'm sure the feds have some limits on weight, speed, and dimension that would keep the states from going too crazy, ( since they provide a certain amount of money, the can call some shots ) but laws are different from state to state because each state makes their own rules.

    Ever notice how the rules change on the interstate when you cross the state line? Same road, but different rules. For an example look up Wisconsin state statute chapter 348, " Vehicles - size, weight, and load." There may be many differences from your state.
    Weight limits for a typical 5 axle truck on interstate roads is still 40 tons gross. Yes, adding axles and spreads vary but the gross limit remains the same no matter what state you are in
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frmboybuck View Post
    Weight limits for a typical 5 axle truck on interstate roads is still 40 tons gross. Yes, adding axles and spreads vary but the gross limit remains the same no matter what state you are in
    With that there is a lenth requirment. It is either 39 or 41 feet from the center of the front axle to the center of the last axle. Shorter than that and the wieght you are allowed to carry starts to drop.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frmboybuck View Post
    Weight limits for a typical 5 axle truck on interstate roads is still 40 tons gross. Yes, adding axles and spreads vary but the gross limit remains the same no matter what state you are in
    We were not talking about a typical 5 axle truck. We were talking about fire apparatus.
    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDMAXX View Post
    I think you may be confusing federal funding with federal control. Weight and bridge formulas are set by each state, and 3 very different examples would be Illinois, Michigan, and here in Wisconsin. Enforcement is also done by the state.

    I'm sure the feds have some limits on weight, speed, and dimension that would keep the states from going too crazy, ( since they provide a certain amount of money, the can call some shots ) but laws are different from state to state because each state makes their own rules.

    Ever notice how the rules change on the interstate when you cross the state line? Same road, but different rules. For an example look up Wisconsin state statute chapter 348, " Vehicles - size, weight, and load." There may be many differences from your state.
    You're going in a circle already discussed above. Page back. In Iowa (and Mo and other states) the opinon of the feds has no relevance. I can run a FD100ft platform on Interstate or a dirt road. Exempt from all weight and dimensional restrictions otherwise dictated by fed/state DOT.

    If I want the local airport to bring their P15 ARFF to the gas tanker rollover on I80. No problem, DOT has no relevance. If I want to take my new 3000gal CAFS tanker pumper (46000lb rr) to anywhere in the state, DOT has no relevance . No problem. If I want to take my 80000lb 6x6 M911 tanker across the state on a mutual aid wildland call. No problem, DOT has no relevance. Same conditions as always, assess the terrain and conditons to determine if appropriate (and routing).

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    You're going in a circle already discussed above. Page back. In Iowa (and Mo and other states) the opinon of the feds has no relevance. I can run a FD100ft platform on Interstate or a dirt road. Exempt from all weight and dimensional restrictions otherwise dictated by fed/state DOT.

    If I want the local airport to bring their P15 ARFF to the gas tanker rollover on I80. No problem, DOT has no relevance. If I want to take my new 3000gal CAFS tanker pumper (46000lb rr) to anywhere in the state, DOT has no relevance . No problem. If I want to take my 80000lb 6x6 M911 tanker across the state on a mutual aid wildland call. No problem, DOT has no relevance. Same conditions as always, assess the terrain and conditons to determine if appropriate (and routing).
    Correct. That was the point. This was a reply to a specific post. The other gentleman was trying to say the feds wrote the rules and there was not an exemption, my point was that the states wrote the rules. And in your state, as well as all others around and including my state of Wisconsin, the state exempts fire apparatus from size and weight.

    Our only restrictions are common sense. Please do not drive the 73,000lb truck over the little 5 ton bridge. Just like you said, assess terrain and conditions, alternate routes, and then determine if appropriate.
    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

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