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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Default ARFF Vehicle as tender

    Has anyone considered using a ARFF vehicle, such as the Oshkosh T1500 or 3000 as a tender in regular structure fire protection?

    Thoughts? Seems I always see some in surplus.


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    While I know little about tender operations I will provide this input. Does the ARFF vehicle meet DOT standards? Does it allow for quick dumping? Will it meet NFPA standards (I know some people could care less, but you might)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Has anyone considered using a ARFF vehicle, such as the Oshkosh T1500 or 3000 as a tender in regular structure fire protection?

    Thoughts? Seems I always see some in surplus.
    Took a look at fielding an Oshkosh P15 as tanker/wildland when DOD was getting rid of them a few years ago. Pretty capable off road (8x8) Huge tank (5000gal) REALLY REALLY big though would have made getting moved to FD very very expensive. So did not proceed.

    http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id...s_fire_p15.php

    Isn't a tender that thing that follows a steam locomotive around?

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    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie82 View Post
    While I know little about tender operations I will provide this input. Does the ARFF vehicle meet DOT standards? Does it allow for quick dumping? Will it meet NFPA standards (I know some people could care less, but you might)?
    I would love to put more stock in NFPA standards, and I do strive to meet them, but realize I have to do what is needed to operate first.

    DOT to my understanding is met.

    Your quick dump question is one I had, but if you had one of the larger ones you could use them for a nurse tanker, while smaller tankers with quick dumps ran a shuttle.

    I was hoping others had already gone this route.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post

    Isn't a tender that thing that follows a steam locomotive around?
    No, a tender has wings (or a gravity box with an auger out the back) ........I don't think the Iowa DOT would be too crazy about a truck on 4 axles, weighing 131,000lbs, beating up and down their roads.
    Last edited by Frmboybuck; 10-06-2009 at 10:37 AM.
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    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Took a look at fielding an Oshkosh P15 as tanker/wildland when DOD was getting rid of them a few years ago. Pretty capable off road (8x8) Huge tank (5000gal) REALLY REALLY big though would have made getting moved to FD very very expensive. So did not proceed.

    http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id...s_fire_p15.php

    Isn't a tender that thing that follows a steam locomotive around?

    I guess I have driven worse across country - not that I would really
    want to though.

    I was looking at one of the 3k gallon range, such as the Oshkosh T3000,
    3000 gallon tank.

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    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post

    Isn't a tender that thing that follows a steam locomotive around?
    Here in Missouri it is - but I was trying to be politically correct. Trying.

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    Forum Member Frmboybuck's Avatar
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    One important thing to think about is low weight roads and bridges....not many bridges will carry that weight
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    The width would be one of my biggest concerns. 10' is getting pretty wide for a lot of the two-lane highways and country roads.

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    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    The weight we are used to dealing with - we presently have a 5k gallon
    tanker. The width is an issue, even the T3000 is close to 9 feet - but 9 feet
    is less than a foot wider than many box trucks.

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    Forum Member Frmboybuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    The weight we are used to dealing with - we presently have a 5k gallon
    tanker. The width is an issue, even the T3000 is close to 9 feet - but 9 feet
    is less than a foot wider than many box trucks.
    Your 5000 gallon tanker does not weigh 131,000lbs. Depending on what kind of truck you have I would say it only weighs half that much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Has anyone considered using a ARFF vehicle, such as the Oshkosh T1500 or 3000 as a tender in regular structure fire protection?

    Thoughts? Seems I always see some in surplus.
    There is a department a couple of counties over that has two of them. They had dump valves installed and they use them as tenders. They also use them as brush trucks and say they work really well for putting brush fires out in hard to reach places.(they can shoot the water farther with them)
    Puttin the wet stuff on the red stuff!

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    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frmboybuck View Post
    Your 5000 gallon tanker does not weigh 131,000lbs. Depending on what kind of truck you have I would say it only weighs half that much.
    I don't guess you are reading the entire thread.

    I am talking about an Oshkosh T1500 or T3000, both of which weigh
    much much less than the P15. MUCH less.

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    Forum Member Frmboybuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    I don't guess you are reading the entire thread.

    I am talking about an Oshkosh T1500 or T3000, both of which weigh
    much much less than the P15. MUCH less.
    Even so, you can not haul that much weight on 2 axles(T1500) or 3 axles(T3000). The legal limit on 1 drive axle is 17000 lbs...Steer is 12000lbs. You can not legally drive one on the roadway with out exemption and I highly doubt the state of MO is going to give that much weight the OK......
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    I've seen ARFF converted to tankers and wildland vehicles.

    Here is one:

    http://www.indianafiretrucks.com/pag...in_county.html

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    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frmboybuck View Post
    Even so, you can not haul that much weight on 2 axles(T1500) or 3 axles(T3000). The legal limit on 1 drive axle is 17000 lbs...Steer is 12000lbs. You can not legally drive one on the roadway with out exemption and I highly doubt the state of MO is going to give that much weight the OK......
    Its not quite that simple. Wheelbase comes into play, etc. In Missouri
    axle weights can be as much as 22k and 36K on tandems.

    I will let you know a better figure here in a bit.

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    Forum Member Frmboybuck's Avatar
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    It is that simple....you are not going to gain enough on a ARFF vehicle to matter. Yes, in MO, secondary roads can carry 36K on tandems. You can not on interstate highways which probably does not pertain to you. However, on the T1500, you have 2 axles...No tandems without modifications. T3000 has 3 axles so max u could have is 48000 gross. I'd have to check the specs again but I believe the T3000 exceeds that by a long shot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frmboybuck View Post
    It is that simple....you are not going to gain enough on a ARFF vehicle to matter. Yes, in MO, secondary roads can carry 36K on tandems. You can not on interstate highways which probably does not pertain to you. However, on the T1500, you have 2 axles...No tandems without modifications. T3000 has 3 axles so max u could have is 48000 gross. I'd have to check the specs again but I believe the T3000 exceeds that by a long shot
    Just to throw it out there, in MO fire apparatus are exempt from weight, height, and width requirements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Took a look at fielding an Oshkosh P15 as tanker/wildland when DOD was getting rid of them a few years ago. Pretty capable off road (8x8) Huge tank (5000gal) REALLY REALLY big though would have made getting moved to FD very very expensive. So did not proceed.
    P-15 has 6K of water on board, plus you never would have gotten the permits to run one around your local roads. I forget the exact specs but fully loaded, they weigh in excess of 100,000....Plus they are 11'4" wide if I remember the width correctly. Not to mention I suspect the cost of maintenance would have driven your department to bankruptcy....lol

    Here's a partial picture of one (and my boys.) Part of the Andy Leider collection. Too freaking big to get a picture!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    P-15 has 6K of water on board, plus you never would have gotten the permits to run one around your local roads. I forget the exact specs but fully loaded, they weigh in excess of 100,000....Plus they are 11'4" wide if I remember the width correctly. Not to mention I suspect the cost of maintenance would have driven your department to bankruptcy....lol

    Here's a partial picture of one (and my boys.) Part of the Andy Leider collection. Too freaking big to get a picture!!!
    About 65 Ton Buff......And no Iowa would have never exempted one of these
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