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  1. #1

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    Default Chevron Striping Funding?????

    Is there any assistance available to retro rigs with the new chevron striping please help?? Thanks


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    MembersZone Subscriber ENG5TRK's Avatar
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    I heard recently that retro fitting rigs with the reflective "dots" technically qualify for NFPA compliance, I'd look into it to be sure.

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    i submitted an amendment 3 weeks ago requesting to use our excess funds for chevron striping and dots for our fire apparatus. i explained the safety benefits and injury prevention aspects that they would provide our firefighters, so...i'll repost if we are successful.

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    May also want to check with your local State Farm Insurance office, they have a highway safety grant, that can be utilized in this fashion to reduce accidents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limeforever View Post
    May also want to check with your local State Farm Insurance office, they have a highway safety grant, that can be utilized in this fashion to reduce accidents.
    While stripes and visibility are important, a truck is only judged against the NFPA 1901 at the time it was built. So there's no requirement to change the stripes, if there are other more pressing needs why spend grant money on that? The State Farm funding would pay for other highway safety related items like rescue tools & training.

    Side note on that I'd like to see a study done on whether or not too much striping and too many lights create tunnel vision in drivers, especially at night. Bright lights and stripes attract the eye's attention so folks can see those but not the people around the truck. Had several people that almost hit our folks say that they saw the truck but not the cones they just ran over. The pupil constricts in bright light and focuses on the point of origin, leaving everything around it dark and hard to see. Not sure that's what we really want since that's where we're standing. Just my .02.

    Either that or 3M's stock is down and they're finding ways to make people buy it.

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    We have started that the closest vehicle to the accident have all emergency lights on and any other emergency vehicle have head lights and flashers on only. I also learned this from a seminar I took and apperently it has helped. Too many flashing lights are more of a distraction to people.

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    I know there have been a couple of studies done on the I-95 corridor around DC that have shown that multiple lighted vehicles have caused a severe increase in the traffic congestion and led to secondary accidents.

    I am not sure if there is a $ on the grant, but we have asked for grants in the 5K range and been sucessful. I know of another department that went after 10K and was shot down.

    We have utilized the State Farm grant for arrow sticks for our trucks, and putting pop up cones on them and additional safety vest.

    Good thing about it is that we can re-apply each year, and already have next years grant in hand just biding out time till we can submitt.

    One of our engines is getting ready to go for refurb, and is having the striping put on the rear, and on all of the compartment doors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    Side note on that I'd like to see a study done on whether or not too much striping and too many lights create tunnel vision in drivers, especially at night.
    Brian,

    There was just a MAJOR study published and released by the USFA that dealt with all aspects of vehicle striping and lettering. I believe that it addresses your question completely (too detailed to cut and paste here!).

    The entire study can be read at http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pd...ons/fa_323.pdf

    IMHO, this would be a great project for "old" apparatus for retrofit as an "injury reduction" proposal to spend down unexpended funds.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post
    Brian,

    There was just a MAJOR study published and released by the USFA that dealt with all aspects of vehicle striping and lettering. I believe that it addresses your question completely (too detailed to cut and paste here!).

    The entire study can be read at http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pd...ons/fa_323.pdf

    IMHO, this would be a great project for "old" apparatus for retrofit as an "injury reduction" proposal to spend down unexpended funds.
    Thanks for the reminder about that one, I downloaded it but haven't had the chance to dig into it.

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    Oh boy do I have to agree with that statment on tunnel vision and from first hand knowledge! 1996 one of my officers was doing a traffic stop on a DUI and was in the center, 50 ft wide grass median of a 4 lane US Highway with the suspect stopped ( his choice of stopping place not the officer's. Flashers, front and rear on, overhead emrgency light bar on, rear deck light strobes on, parked 25 feet behind suspect vehicle. Conduting interview to side of driver's door of vehicle when a perfectly sober and wide awake, individual drove directly into the rear of our Crown Vic at over 55 mph. Officer had to throw himselfself and drunk out of the way of wreckage; driver survived. Crown Vic was bent into a 90 degree angle and DUI driver's car totaled as well. Same principle as "highway hypnosis", its dangerous folks, don't let those red flashing lights become a securty blanket for you.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post
    Brian,

    There was just a MAJOR study published and released by the USFA that dealt with all aspects of vehicle striping and lettering. I believe that it addresses your question completely (too detailed to cut and paste here!).

    The entire study can be read at http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pd...ons/fa_323.pdf

    IMHO, this would be a great project for "old" apparatus for retrofit as an "injury reduction" proposal to spend down unexpended funds.
    In my opinion it would be very difficult to find a bigger waste of $3000 than installing chevron striping on the rear of a fire truck. Maybe data logger or seatbelt sensors in a 2dr truck. Perhaps you have an unlimited budget you can't figure out how to spend. But if you're out fundraising and writing grants for FD imporvements there HAVE to be useful things to spend $ on.

    Buy a new color thermal imager, AED for every truck, quick attack monitors, test/replace the moisture barriers in your TO gear (if more than 5yr old will fail test), R/C monitor, station commercial washer and gear dryer.

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    Nothing against what you're trying to do, as anything you can do to increase safety is a good thing, but I've often wondered why departments would spend a good chunk of money to put chevrons on a truck when they don't carry the big pink signs or cones to warn traffic before they get to the truck.

    That's not to say you don't already have those things, just an observation I've made locally that fits into this thread. I'm sure there's grant money out there for those items, such as the State Farm one mentioned. I know several departments that use the cones they got for their comprehensive driver training program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    In my opinion it would be very difficult to find a bigger waste of $3000 than installing chevron striping on the rear of a fire truck. Maybe data logger or seatbelt sensors in a 2dr truck. Perhaps you have an unlimited budget you can't figure out how to spend. But if you're out fundraising and writing grants for FD imporvements there HAVE to be useful things to spend $ on.

    Buy a new color thermal imager, AED for every truck, quick attack monitors, test/replace the moisture barriers in your TO gear (if more than 5yr old will fail test), R/C monitor, station commercial washer and gear dryer.
    It's all in your perspective and the circumstances that you operate in. We have some very busy and unforgiving Interstate that we protect. We have numerous state and county road with speeds posted at 35, 45, and 55, but where traffic typically travels at 65+. We've bought and routinely use the pink signs, plenty of cones, and we were the first department in our county (42 departments) to be in full compliance with the new ANSI traffic vest standard by issuing an SOP and a ANSI Class 3 vest to every member (part of our 2007 AFG Grant for PPE). We added the "dots" to the back of our utility vehicle last year at a cost of less than $600. It was a REMARKABLE safety improvement for the vehicle that does the majority of our wires down, road closure, traffic duties. Maybe where you come from you'd consider it wasteful, but in my environment my peole and my equipment is useless if it becomes road pizza! Unmeasurable benefit/cost, but if it helps to prevent just one fender-bender the $600 cost is paid for, not to mention the B/C if it prevents one ER visit!

    Now I'd consider a new color TIC or an R/C Monitor to be a wasteful "toy" in my FD, but I certainly won't judge the value of either in yours!
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post

    Side note on that I'd like to see a study done on whether or not too much striping and too many lights create tunnel vision in drivers, especially at night. Bright lights and stripes attract the eye's attention so folks can see those but not the people around the truck. Had several people that almost hit our folks say that they saw the truck but not the cones they just ran over. The pupil constricts in bright light and focuses on the point of origin, leaving everything around it dark and hard to see. Not sure that's what we really want since that's where we're standing. Just my .02.

    p
    I totally agree. I think it's overkill when you consider the quantity of lighting we are required, and how much brighter modern stuff is compared to the ol' Beacon Ray and wig-wag days.

    And even back then, there was a risk. Around 1982 a fatal accident had occurred near the foot of hill outside Taylorsville, Kentucky (my hometown). While personnel were working it, a vehicle came over the top of the hill and wrecked, killing both occupants. Obviously they never knew what happened to the driver, but they theorized the large number of red and blue lights at the initial scene--and floodlights too--might have interfered with the teenage driver's vision or simply scared her and caused her to catch the shoulder, overcorrect, and roll.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.Ē
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post
    It's all in your perspective and the circumstances that you operate in. We have some very busy and unforgiving Interstate that we protect. We have numerous state and county road with speeds posted at 35, 45, and 55, but where traffic typically travels at 65+. We've bought and routinely use the pink signs, plenty of cones, and we were the first department in our county (42 departments) to be in full compliance with the new ANSI traffic vest standard by issuing an SOP and a ANSI Class 3 vest to every member (part of our 2007 AFG Grant for PPE). We added the "dots" to the back of our utility vehicle last year at a cost of less than $600. It was a REMARKABLE safety improvement for the vehicle that does the majority of our wires down, road closure, traffic duties. Maybe where you come from you'd consider it wasteful, but in my environment my peole and my equipment is useless if it becomes road pizza! Unmeasurable benefit/cost, but if it helps to prevent just one fender-bender the $600 cost is paid for, not to mention the B/C if it prevents one ER visit!

    Now I'd consider a new color TIC or an R/C Monitor to be a wasteful "toy" in my FD, but I certainly won't judge the value of either in yours!
    I totally agree with DFDCar1 - The traffic safety improvements make total sense to the health and welfare of our firefighters when they are the streets, which by the way is EVERYDAY....really, when was the last time you needed to have a colored TIC screen or a remote-controlled monitor? Give me a break.....I submitted an amendment to use our $3,301 excess funds for traffic safety equipment (chevrons, vests, cones) and just got a denial from AFG....They stated that the funds were for injury prevention for civilians NOT firefighters...ARE THEY KIDDING ME!! I'm waiting for a return call at this very moment....

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelman View Post
    I totally agree with DFDCar1 - The traffic safety improvements make total sense to the health and welfare of our firefighters when they are the streets, which by the way is EVERYDAY....really, when was the last time you needed to have a colored TIC screen or a remote-controlled monitor? Give me a break.....I submitted an amendment to use our $3,301 excess funds for traffic safety equipment (chevrons, vests, cones) and just got a denial from AFG....They stated that the funds were for injury prevention for civilians NOT firefighters...ARE THEY KIDDING ME!! I'm waiting for a return call at this very moment....
    If you haven't done so already reference 23 CFR 634 which is the Federal Code requiring all highway workers to have highly visible clothing. USDOT requires everyone to be wearing the vests including us. There are probably other statutes at the state or federal level that require all highway workers to control work areas with cones, which again we're included in that highway worker category so it's not public safety equipment for the public's safety, it's for us.

    I'll disagree on the remote controlled monitor (slightly). While we're on the road more than squirting water, the vests and stuff are pretty inexpensive on a per unit basis. For less than $100 you can outfit a truck with vests since everyone doesn't need their own. You can get free cones from the utility companies, they replace dozens every year. When you have enough to stick a RC monitor on that's a rare occasion to have a few grand leftover. The idea with excess funds is not only to buy what's needed but take advantage of the situation and buy the expensive things since it's easier to buy cheaper things on your own or with other grants that don't give out larger awards. I used the remote deck gun on the quint for the old department at the last fire I made with them because I had it by myself for a long time when I arrived. All the available crews took lines to the C side to cover the exposures so I had the aerial master running (wireless remote nozzle) and then I popped up one of the remote deck guns we put behind the cab to hit the 2nd floor windows and another part of the roof while the aerial master was dropping down somewhere else. We held it to the original fire building, and without the remote wireless on the aerial's nozzle might not have since I had no one to send up the stick to run it. That was the way to end the last shift there before we moved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelman View Post
    I submitted an amendment to use our $3,301 excess funds for traffic safety equipment (chevrons, vests, cones) and just got a denial from AFG....They stated that the funds were for injury prevention for civilians NOT firefighters...ARE THEY KIDDING ME!! I'm waiting for a return call at this very moment....
    Not doubting you but the language highlighted above would in fact be germane to the FP&S not AFG, I wonder if someone has their wires crossed here between the two grants. Any chance you mistakenly submitted the amendment using an FP&S award number? Or maybe the FPS looked at the wrong grant award also.
    Kurt Bradley
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    As admpaul alluded, part of this is that equipment doesn't replace policy and procedure. Just because every vehicle has lots of lights doesn't mean they have to be on -- especially when parked.

    For example, keep the emergency lights where you begin the warning zone at your incident. But, for the blocker vehicle down through the incident, some simple yellow lights and a chevron say "stay away" instead of "look here, flashing lights, look over here."

    For another report on emergency vehicle lighting, see http://www.theiacp.org/About/Governa...spx?id=545&v=1
    Apu
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