View Poll Results: How do you trust more???

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  • A bunch of incompetent bungling bureaucrats

    1 9.09%
  • A bunch of greedy insurance agents

    10 90.91%
  1. #1
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    Default Insurers, White House square off over reform bill


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    Considering that when Massachusetts made health care mandatory they wrongly predicted and underfunded the state's commitment of funds ot the program, nevermind the profound delay in getting an appointment to see doctor, the insufficient number of physicians to provide Primary Care (in Boston there is a 6-9 month wait for a new PCP as I am told), I cannot think that the incompetant nit-wits in D.C. are any more adept at predicting costs than the moronic boobs (yes I said BOOBS ) in Boston are.

    I am still no real fan of insurance companies though.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Well the new healthcare bill just passed committee with GOP Snowe from Maine voting for the new revised bill. Sorry, but looks like she was swayed by 'feelings' for history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jam24u View Post
    Well the new healthcare bill just passed committee with GOP Snowe from Maine voting for the new revised bill. Sorry, but looks like she was swayed by 'feelings' for history.
    Snowe has always been a "moderate" and actually more to left of the middle than most Republican moderates.

    Two thoughts on the vote. She did it while saying some tripe about this being a point in history. So freaking what?

    The second, she also said that she had reservations about the bill. So why the hell did you not push for those "reservations" and get the bill better?

    These politicians have no brains.

    I was listening to a local talk show yesterday that has some syndication in Maine and they were mentioning that when they tried to call Sen. Snowe's office in Maine and D.C. all the lines were busy and the voice mails were full. Presumably from irate constituents?
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  5. #5
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    Default Well.............

    I didn't vote because my preference wasn't listed, and I won't vote any other way. My Answer is "None of the Above"......... I don't trust either group a foot farther than the other. My Proposal?? Leave things Alone. Here's why:

    I have decent, affordable Healthcare. Having turned 65, I am elegible for, and receive, the usual Social Security/Medicare/etc. stuff, and I also retain the Healthcare and other benefits that are part of my Retirement Package. I have paid into this system since Day 1, there's no reason for me to not use it. When Anyone, Insurance Industry or Government, talks about "Improvement" or "Change" you can bet that I'll lose something in the bargain.
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    I'll keep my guns, freedom, and money. You can keep the "change".

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    I'll just go ahead and embrace my role as the lone liberal on here
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    I didn't vote because my preference wasn't listed, and I won't vote any other way. My Answer is "None of the Above"......... I don't trust either group a foot farther than the other. My Proposal?? Leave things Alone. Here's why:

    I have decent, affordable Healthcare. Having turned 65, I am elegible for, and receive, the usual Social Security/Medicare/etc. stuff, and I also retain the Healthcare and other benefits that are part of my Retirement Package. I have paid into this system since Day 1, there's no reason for me to not use it. When Anyone, Insurance Industry or Government, talks about "Improvement" or "Change" you can bet that I'll lose something in the bargain.
    Good point. I didn't think of that. This is for sure a lose lose situation.

    I did notice that the Unions have now come out against this. Its coming down to who will pay for someone elses health care.

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    Let me ask all of you who state that you don't trust the greedy insurance companies a question?

    Why do you buy insurance?

    Wouldn't it be better if you kept your money an didn't feed the habit of those nasty insurance ogres?

    Oh. I get it. You are all hypocrites.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Let me ask all of you who state that you don't trust the greedy insurance companies a question?

    Why do you buy insurance?

    Wouldn't it be better if you kept your money an didn't feed the habit of those nasty insurance ogres?

    Oh. I get it. You are all hypocrites.
    2 part answer:

    1st part:

    What if you are a cop and all the gun-manufacturers only sold defective guns. 10% of the time they misfire, and no matter what you do with their product you cannot get a good grouping at the range. So you have the choice to either buy a gun that might fire and hit the target, or not buy a gun at all. Which one do you do?

    What if your Fire Department has a choice between an engine that might not start during the next fire, or no engine at all?

    You can talk pretty and talk about "If you don't like it, don't buy it", but if you have a choice between crap and nothing your options are pretty limited.

    2nd part:

    I know this is a hard concept for many people to understand, but this isn't about me. I actually care about the people who don't have access to health insurance or preventative healthcare. I'm not OK with the concept of "My family has decent insurance, so there is no problem."
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    The 1st part of your answer is irrelevant to the health care situation. There have been well-documented polls that show that the majority of Americans are happy with their current health insurance plan. I sure am. Mine is not broke. And remember, I have a special needs son who requires speech therapy and hearing aids. My health insurance company takes care of me just fine. I suspect that if most of you were honest, you would have to admit that you are pretty happy, too.

    The main source of dissatisfaction by those who claim that their insurance co. is out to screw them is this notion that, somehow, all health care should be free of cost to the patient. Where did this notion come from? I pay a decent amount of money for my health care plan. But if I get a good plan, and receive good service, it is my responsibility to continue to provide these benefits for my family.

    The irony to me is that, the majority of you in the public sector receive their health care insurance for free or at a very low cost. (Don't try to BS me, I was in the pubic sector, too).

    Your second point is self-serving. I care about those folks, too. But the true number of those folks who should be entitled to is a fraction of what the administration is claiming. I feel no moral obligation to provide health insurance to illegal aliens. I feel no moral obligation to provide health insurance to those folks who are long term leeches on society who refuse to work. If there is a need to provide health insurance to people who are in emergent situations, then kraft a program to do that. But I maintain, and a whole helluva lot people agree, that there is no need to dismantle and nationalize an entire system to accomodate these folks.

    The bottom line is that every single person living in this country today HAS access to health care. Every one. If it isn't the health care that we all have, if they have to go to an ED or a clinic, too bad. There is no constitutional right to premium health care.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Double post.
    Last edited by GeorgeWendtCFI; 10-15-2009 at 07:08 AM.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    ...The irony to me is that, the majority of you in the public sector receive their health care insurance for free or at a very low cost. (Don't try to BS me, I was in the pubic sector, too)...
    I don't receive it free or at very low cost. My salary, compared to private sector, is less. And I accept that lower salary knowing that my "share" of insurance payments has already been taken out of it. Give me the same salary as I had in private sector and I will pay for that insurance. It all equals out.

    And yes, I and I alone, chose to move from private sector to public sector.

    I don't think insurance companies are the bad guys. I think too many lawyers are the problem.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Let me ask all of you who state that you don't trust the greedy insurance companies a question?

    Why do you buy insurance?

    Wouldn't it be better if you kept your money an didn't feed the habit of those nasty insurance ogres?

    Oh. I get it. You are all hypocrites.
    Let me first state that the original post was intended to be a bit sarcastic.

    Even our own legislators agree there should be competition as they push for a public plan. Here is the difference, we have one government and we are stuck with this growing festering monster. Government has no reason to improve its service or performance. It just keeps sucking form the public.

    The insurance companies on the other hand are in competition with one another. They have a reason to improve their performance and provide good service and customer satisfaction. Don't like Aetna, go to Met Life. It is that simple.

    I hear often about people complaining because Insurance companies won't cover certain procedures. News FLASH!!! Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA hospitals do the same thing.

    Myself, I don't trust the Monopolistic Government Systems. In fact, I have no faith in SS and have contributed to my own retirement system. Government systems ultimately fail.


    I hear way too

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    2 part answer:

    1st part:

    What if you are a cop and all the gun-manufacturers only sold defective guns. 10% of the time they misfire, and no matter what you do with their product you cannot get a good grouping at the range. So you have the choice to either buy a gun that might fire and hit the target, or not buy a gun at all. Which one do you do?

    What if your Fire Department has a choice between an engine that might not start during the next fire, or no engine at all?

    You can talk pretty and talk about "If you don't like it, don't buy it", but if you have a choice between crap and nothing your options are pretty limited.
    What if a gun manufacture sold that bad gun. I wouldn't buy those guns anymore, I would find one that built a good gun. In fact, in our daily lives we often buy the best products. Companies who build inferior products go out of business.

    2nd part:

    I know this is a hard concept for many people to understand, but this isn't about me. I actually care about the people who don't have access to health insurance or preventative healthcare. I'm not OK with the concept of "My family has decent insurance, so there is no problem."
    This is a different issue. I have a problem with giving people something for nothing. Perhaps if we let them perform community service in return we give them benefits. Secondly, the government should not give the benefits directly, the government should enable these people to get insurance.

    Of course the thing to realize is that insurance is nothing more than a means of managing risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    I don't receive it free or at very low cost. My salary, compared to private sector, is less. And I accept that lower salary knowing that my "share" of insurance payments has already been taken out of it. Give me the same salary as I had in private sector and I will pay for that insurance. It all equals out.

    And yes, I and I alone, chose to move from private sector to public sector.
    Then you are not in the majority.

    I don't think insurance companies are the bad guys. I think too many lawyers are the problem
    Then you would be dead on correct.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    George, where I work, almost all of the "public sector employees" have never worked in the private sector. They simply don't know the "the other side".
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    George, where I work, almost all of the "public sector employees" have never worked in the private sector. They simply don't know the "the other side".
    Still - I am in the public sector and have been for my career (not fire service). I know what I could make in the private sector but accept less for increased job security and better benefits. I personally know for my specific job, I have over $20,000 of additional income based on my health insurance and 403b employer contributions. This still doesn't quite close the gap to the private sector but its darn close. The job security makes up the difference for me.

    Now, if you gave everyone my benefits, frankly, I'd want a raise since its not getting paid out anymore. (either that, or everybody else needs to take a pay cut)

    I do understand what you mean. Most people fail to factor in benefits when considering compesation. People with 'good' insurance pay for that 'good' insurance. My health insurance is between 13,000-14,000 a year - mostly paid by my employer. How many other people have that expensive of insurance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    George, where I work, almost all of the "public sector employees" have never worked in the private sector. They simply don't know the "the other side".

    Exactly!!! I worked Public Sector and Private Sector. While in the public sector the people who bitched and complained the most were the ones who had been there all their lives and didn't know what it was like to work in a real job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFNG View Post
    Still - I am in the public sector and have been for my career (not fire service). I know what I could make in the private sector but accept less for increased job security and better benefits. I personally know for my specific job, I have over $20,000 of additional income based on my health insurance and 403b employer contributions. This still doesn't quite close the gap to the private sector but its darn close. The job security makes up the difference for me.

    Now, if you gave everyone my benefits, frankly, I'd want a raise since its not getting paid out anymore. (either that, or everybody else needs to take a pay cut)

    I do understand what you mean. Most people fail to factor in benefits when considering compesation. People with 'good' insurance pay for that 'good' insurance. My health insurance is between 13,000-14,000 a year - mostly paid by my employer. How many other people have that expensive of insurance?
    You have one of those Cadillac plans that the idiots, correct that, I meant dumbocrats, want to tax. My plan for a single person is $50 a month, $600 a year and I pay 20%. That means my entire policy cost $3000.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Exactly!!! I worked Public Sector and Private Sector. While in the public sector the people who bitched and complained the most were the ones who had been there all their lives and didn't know what it was like to work in a real job.
    Why would you consider one a real job and not the other? Oh that's right, I forgot...your an idiot.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFNG View Post
    Still - I am in the public sector and have been for my career (not fire service). I know what I could make in the private sector but accept less for increased job security and better benefits. I personally know for my specific job, I have over $20,000 of additional income based on my health insurance and 403b employer contributions. This still doesn't quite close the gap to the private sector but its darn close. The job security makes up the difference for me.

    Now, if you gave everyone my benefits, frankly, I'd want a raise since its not getting paid out anymore. (either that, or everybody else needs to take a pay cut)

    I do understand what you mean. Most people fail to factor in benefits when considering compesation. People with 'good' insurance pay for that 'good' insurance. My health insurance is between 13,000-14,000 a year - mostly paid by my employer. How many other people have that expensive of insurance?
    I am not certain that I mean that exactly. When I was inthe public sector, I contributed $400 per year to my health insurance premium for a top shelf health care insurance program. Now, I pay almost that a paycheck. I know when I left the public sector, my COBRA premium would have been about $1100 per month.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Why would you consider one a real job and not the other? Oh that's right, I forgot...your an idiot.
    Because I have worked in both sectors. In the private sector you were expected to be at your job and working for 8 hours. In the public sector they come in eat their breakfast, read the paper, go for a walk, then maybe do work for a couple of hours. And it is allowed.

    I ride a bus to work in Albany, mostly state workers on the bus, there are about 3 or 4 of us who are not state workers. All you have to do is listen. NYS needs to cut expenses. Last night three or four were talking about how NYS is clamping down on printing form the printers (stupidity at its best, but that is another topic). At any rate, all thee agreed they could save a lot of money by getting ride of the useless workers. Governmental employers for whatever reason will not fire anyone. They will not even make them do their jobs. In private industry, if you don't produce you are out the door.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I am not certain that I mean that exactly. When I was inthe public sector, I contributed $400 per year to my health insurance premium for a top shelf health care insurance program. Now, I pay almost that a paycheck. I know when I left the public sector, my COBRA premium would have been about $1100 per month.
    When I worked for the Federal government I contributed 40% the government 60%. Now I'm in private industry I pay 20% my employer pays 80%. My premiums are going up to $25 a pay period, or $50 a month. That means my policy, for a single person, is $3,000 a year. And I took the top of the line policy. Makes me wonder where these idiots in Washington are coming up with e $5,000 number.

    Only two things in life are guaranteed, death and taxes. There is no guarantee that one will be free from risk. It sucks for some of these people but I didn't create their risk nor their problem. Therefore, I don't feel responsible for fixing their problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    When I worked for the Federal government I contributed 40% the government 60%. Now I'm in private industry I pay 20% my employer pays 80%. My premiums are going up to $25 a pay period, or $50 a month. That means my policy, for a single person, is $3,000 a year. And I took the top of the line policy. Makes me wonder where these idiots in Washington are coming up with e $5,000 number.

    Only two things in life are guaranteed, death and taxes. There is no guarantee that one will be free from risk. It sucks for some of these people but I didn't create their risk nor their problem. Therefore, I don't feel responsible for fixing their problem.
    You're right.

    WAL MART has very good, affordable benefits.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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