1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnfazer21 View Post
    Calm down...... I'm not trashing previous hires, I am trashing the quota hiring SPFD is doing.....
    How is there a quota when only 2 females and two Non-White Men have been hired out of all the current hires from the eligible list? It seems to me that a lot of people on this board are basing their rants and cries of "inequality" and "quota hires" on BS and faulty statistics and "inside info"....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blakkmajjick View Post
    How is there a quota when only 2 females and two Non-White Men have been hired out of all the current hires from the eligible list? It seems to me that a lot of people on this board are basing their rants and cries of "inequality" and "quota hires" on BS and faulty statistics and "inside info"....
    Really, I personally know 3 women off that list, not to mention some very qualified non-whites. Another advantage, knowing the the recruit instructors personally, I have no worries about those that make it to the street, no matter what their particular race, gender, or "insert description here". That group out there is dedicated and experienced, their opinion has weight.
    Not to mention our Firefighters United local is extremely in-tune with the city and is doing a fantastic job.
    How's that inside info grab ya?
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Proving my point... Why are people complaining [and you personally talking about quotas and taking it to a new low with hires] when you just said that the quality of people getting to the street are of a high caliber? You can't talk about the system they have in place for making hires in a disparaging light and then say that you have no worries about them. Oh and your "inside info" is old hat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blakkmajjick View Post
    Proving my point... Why are people complaining [and you personally talking about quotas and taking it to a new low with hires] Because it is unjust to establish a testing requriment, and then reach past those that have scored better physically and mentally on this, the most basic requirements to qualify for the job. Being a vet, I take it personal when they ignore the vet's preference and bypass those that rank higher. I will complain about that, thank you very much. As a vet, I've earned that privalege. As far as our quota hire requirements, that has been around since the late 80's, I don't have a dog in that fight, and thanks to the training department, those that may have benifited as a result of that are very capable. when you just said that the quality of people getting to the street are of a high caliber? Because I work with them. Be the time they pass the recruit academy, they are compitent. If not, they and any one else for that matter is fired.You can't talk about the system they have in place for making hires in a disparaging light and then say that you have no worries about them. Again, because all hires have to make it through our recruit training. As I stated in my previous post, I know and work with those at the academy and I respect their training and opinion.Oh and your "inside info" is old hat.
    If you are going to spin this into I'm some sort of racist because I don't beleive in hiring past those that score better on a competative test, I won't bite. It's a strawman argument.
    If you are on the list, or plan on taking the test, I wish you the best of luck. If testing is in your future, being a vet is worth 5 points, and scoring a 100% on the agility test with a good time can't be understated. My advice, run stairs, adding wieght in a backpack. The agility test maxes your thigh muscles; stair climb with a bundle, dragging a dummy and finishing up with a kiaser machine, among other steps, are all tough, . The city puts on well run practice sessions, take full advantage of them.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    With all due respect, you have earned no privilege, I have been a Volunteer for a good while myself, got my points, and have been actively looking for my shot to get onto a department full time. I have taken that search to many cities outside of the MSP/STP area and have run into similar situations across the country and I do not complain about quotas, hiring practices, or the like. YOU have made the leap into racist accusations, not I. I am ranked quite high in the band, have been “passed over” in the previous rounds and do not take it personally. And for the record any city can have any hiring system they want and it is up to them who/how/when to hire individuals within that system as per their discretion and hiring needs. Perhaps the reason individuals are being passed over is that the Hiring Department is deliberately looking for new blood and no more of the cousins, nephews and sons of current Firemen. Maybe they are looking to change the demographic and relations within the department, rather than preserve the current model and status quo. If it were not for the efforts of the Black Firefighters Union and the mentorship of several White Firefighters I would have never heard about this previous round due to the fact that the info was not exactly widely spread. Also, the reason why Saint Paul has this "new" method in place is due to several dozens racially charged and well publicized incidents over the last 30 years. Such as individuals hanging Black Monkeys from nooses in fire suits [I saw the pictures myself] in certain Fire Houses in the City. There have also been several incidents where women have faced varying levels of discrimination as well. I find it odd that you still have no basis for your complaints and arguments due to the fact that you complain about the hiring methods, yet praise the individuals that make it through, so I ask you bluntly: what in the hell are you complaining about? If they are qualified when they make it through, then your whole argument is rendered moot because the quality of hires is still top notch. And making/laughing at jokes about "all the protected class individuals failing out" [2-3 individuals as far as I have heard] does make you seem bitter, ignorant, and filled up with a fallacious sense of entitlement due to the experience that you have. I have experience, doesn't make me more entitled than another. I have to bust my ***, and stand out from everyone else just like everyone else. When/if you get into academy the ones that help the lower performers excel, stand out, and garner respect from their peers and instructors. You do not seem like you are going into this looking to help, but rather just looking to get on. It’s a seemingly trivial, yet important distinction.

    Anyway, I wish you the best of luck as well…

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    .....so, um......back to the hiring updates.....

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    No civil service puts that much thought into it. If you got passed up it is for a better candidate. Just relax and stop trying to figure everything out. And know the the cats i know that teach academy and run this stuff can smell bull and know when someone is being a suck up and just helping to make themselves look better (BLakMjik). Deep breath. This is the fire service. Relax this sh*t should be fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blakkmajjick View Post
    With all due respect, you have earned no privilege, I have been a Volunteer for a good while myself, got my points, and have been actively looking for my shot to get onto a department full time. Yes I have earned my points and privilege to express my dismay concerning vets being passed up. My 3 trips and 18 months in the gulf given me that right.I have taken that search to many cities outside of the MSP/STP area and have run into similar situations across the country and I do not complain about quotas, hiring practices, or the like. YOU have made the leap into racist accusations, not I. I am ranked quite high in the band, have been “passed over” in the previous rounds and do not take it personally. And for the record any city can have any hiring system they want and it is up to them who/how/when to hire individuals within that system as per their discretion and hiring needs. Perhaps the reason individuals are being passed over is that the Hiring Department is deliberately looking for new blood and no more of the cousins, nephews and sons of current Firemen. Maybe they are looking to change the demographic and relations within the department, rather than preserve the current model and status quo. What of the current status quo don't you like; the highest average between the written and physical agility gets ranked at the top of the list? Yeah, that's terrible. Hate to reward those that put in the extra time and effort.If it were not for the efforts of the Black Firefighters Union and the mentorship of several White Firefighters I would have never heard about this previous round due to the fact that the info was not exactly widely spread. Actually, contact HR, they spent over a million dollars on target recruiting. Firefighters United was very active in this and spearheaded much of recruiting effort. Also, the reason why Saint Paul has this "new" method in place is due to several dozens racially charged and well publicized incidents over the last 30 years. You need to be honest, there where 2 lawsuits concerning race among the active firefighters.Such as individuals hanging Black Monkeys from nooses in fire suits [I saw the pictures myself] in certain Fire Houses in the City.Certain firehouses? Thats an out and out lie. The monkey was found in the public safety garage, NOT a firehouse. Nor was it in possession of a firefighter, ever. There have also been several incidents where women have faced varying levels of discrimination as well. I find it odd that you still have no basis for your complaints and arguments due to the fact that you complain about the hiring methods, yet praise the individuals that make it through, so I ask you bluntly: what in the hell are you complaining about? I will explain this again, I don't believe in people being passed over that earned a higher score. If they are qualified when they make it through, then your whole argument is rendered moot because the quality of hires is still top notch. I've even explained this before also, how ever they get to the academy, the instructors ensure they meet all the requirements. If not, they was out. Plain and simple. And making/laughing at jokes about "all the protected class individuals failing out" [2-3 individuals as far as I have heard] does make you seem bitter, ignorant, and filled up with a fallacious sense of entitlement due to the experience that you have. What experiences have I had in my life you think you can judge me on? One failed out twice. So I ask you, if they fail out, could it be because they shouldn't have been there to begin with?I have experience, doesn't make me more entitled than another. I have to bust my ***, and stand out from everyone else just like everyone else. When/if you get into academy the ones that help the lower performers excel, stand out, and garner respect from their peers and instructors. You do not seem like you are going into this looking to help, but rather just looking to get on. It’s a seemingly trivial, yet important distinction.

    Anyway, I wish you the best of luck as well…
    FYI, Im on the job. Love every minute of it, and worked very hard to get here.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    In the last 6 years the more I learn about being a Fireman I know that its something that I can and will do as long as my body lets me. I also realize now that the odd hours and no pay for volunteering isn't what has been the toughest to adjust to... Its all of the one upping and nit picky bitching. I feel like I am dealing with the frosh in ROTC again, everyone needs the last word

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blakkmajjick View Post
    In the last 6 years the more I learn about being a Fireman I know that its something that I can and will do as long as my body lets me. I also realize now that the odd hours and no pay for volunteering isn't what has been the toughest to adjust to... Its all of the one upping and nit picky bitching. I feel like I am dealing with the frosh in ROTC again, everyone needs the last word
    You will hear from the some hard core union guys that your vollie time is of no benefit. I disagree with that, you know the job, you know what is required to not only succeed, but excel, and lets be frank, some of the crap we see on this job, people just can't handle and deal with. You have been there, done that. All lacking in the 20 year old kid living in mom's basement.
    If you are a medic, Burnsville, Edina, and others take that experience seriously. All good departments, but really don't have the ability to run a full blown academy. They make good use of what you know. Your passion speaks for itself, so no worries there.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blakkmajjick View Post
    Not sure how true that is, I have spoke to at least 7 guys currently on Saint Paul Fire and they have all said that the earliest class will be starting in March of 2012... And that letters do not go out until December.
    This is very true statement, typically letters go out roughly 3 to 4 months before an academy would start. If you look back when the others went it is perfectly inline.... Also just call Liz in HR and she will brief you with any updates you are curious about. Good luck!

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    Reading through this forum, I see that they send you a letter asking if you are a Paramedic or not before the next class starts. Does anyone know anything more about this? Also, if the next class starts around March, has anyone received one recently? Would Liz from HR know what number they left off at on this current list?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thrilla82 View Post
    Reading through this forum, I see that they send you a letter asking if you are a Paramedic or not before the next class starts. Does anyone know anything more about this? Also, if the next class starts around March, has anyone received one recently? Would Liz from HR know what number they left off at on this current list?
    Regarding the paramedic letter, know one really knows if it means anything. Last time they did this from the 2005 list they ended up doing 17c hires instead.... I don't believe HR will have/give the exact numbers due to letters going out from different bands. Sorry can't be of more help. Where are you at on the list thrilla?

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    17c hires? What is that? Also, what are these bands that everyone is talking about? I'm from the Chicagoland area and I guess our testing system is a little different. As for my number, I'm a little over 200.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thrilla82 View Post
    17c hires? What is that? Also, what are these bands that everyone is talking about? I'm from the Chicagoland area and I guess our testing system is a little different. As for my number, I'm a little over 200.
    17c is a lateral transfer provision the city has used to hire Firefighter/Paramedics.... Not so much bands as much as a ranking.... Each score 110, 105, 102.5, 100..... would be a band...

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    Has anyone recently talked to Terry (Fire HR) lately? I'm just curious if anything might happen with these so called letters before the next holiday season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thrilla82 View Post
    Has anyone recently talked to Terry (Fire HR) lately? I'm just curious if anything might happen with these so called letters before the next holiday season.
    I have not talked to Terry...Honestly, it's anyones guess as to what the city is going to do. I know they are short on medics, but I think the city frowns upon hiring down the list for just medics....

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    I have talked to Terry and a few others, including a very significant number of guys that have gotten letters previously. Here is what I can make of it, they are still sending out letters to people that have already had interviews and didn't get the job for this or that reason [mostly due to not having an EMT Cert at the time of the interview]. They have juuust scraped the 95 band and seem to be recycling through the 110-95 band to find people for the first 3 academies. From what I have heard from people I know, it doesn't appear like a lot of newbies have received letters. It seems like a lot of guys are up for retirement and that's slowing things down [among other things]. As others have said, its anyone's guess how they are going through this but it seems to be losing any rhyme or reason the longer the process goes on.

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    "short on medics" I guess my last question is, how do they do things up in Minnesota? Down in the Chicagoland area, we have a lot of union firefighter/paramedic departments where you wear both hats. If you're a paramedic in St. Paul, do you get to do both?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thrilla82 View Post
    "short on medics" I guess my last question is, how do they do things up in Minnesota? Down in the Chicagoland area, we have a lot of union firefighter/paramedic departments where you wear both hats. If you're a paramedic in St. Paul, do you get to do both?
    Yes if you were hired and get clearance as a medic you would be both a medic and FF riding on the engine and ambo.... If you bid a truck you would lose your medic pay/status....

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    Hey, I have been following the forum but have not posted anything untile now... I scored in the 97.5 group... here is my question i have about 3 years of service with a large and busy full time department, does this help me?? I love my job but it is about 200 miles from St.paul and my family leaves close to there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnfire46 View Post
    Hey, I have been following the forum but have not posted anything untile now... I scored in the 97.5 group... here is my question i have about 3 years of service with a large and busy full time department, does this help me?? I love my job but it is about 200 miles from St.paul and my family leaves close to there.
    Are you also a medic? If you are and they do a lateral transfer it would help. It could help once in the interview process...

    Hey Blakkmajjick, what is your rank?

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    Patiently waiting at 97.5. Funny story? Could have been 100 if like an idiot I didn't forget to hand in my form for residency points. Was out of town for a week and a half before the due date and I have been kicking myself for it ever since. Could have made all the difference...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blakkmajjick View Post
    Patiently waiting at 97.5. Funny story? Could have been 100 if like an idiot I didn't forget to hand in my form for residency points. Was out of town for a week and a half before the due date and I have been kicking myself for it ever since. Could have made all the difference...
    Ah man sorry to hear that.... I think we're all trying to be patient, but we've all worked so hard to get where we are at. Do you have your medic card? Good luck, keep me posted on what you hear, it seems you have some good info to share as well.

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    So talking to Terry, it sounds like their still at the 102.5 band. My question is, how do you know what band you're in? I know my number on the list but dont know my band.

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