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Thread: Rescue-Pumper

  1. #1
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    Question Rescue-Pumper

    Ok we feel we have a good set of specs for a rescue pumper that we think would work for us. Those who have designed and now use these rigs, what would you do different? I have seen similar threads.
    Roughly it is a custom cab for 6, 1500 pump, 750 h20, A/B Foam, no CAFS, ladders through the back, tall deep rescue comp., command light, PTO gen, I could go on forever, but i figure since people have done this already and hopefully have some good advice, we are going to bid no later than 12-01, thanks.


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    Auto Chains depending if they are allowed

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    Quote Originally Posted by firebill911 View Post
    Ok we feel we have a good set of specs for a rescue pumper that we think would work for us. Those who have designed and now use these rigs, what would you do different? I have seen similar threads.
    Roughly it is a custom cab for 6, 1500 pump, 750 h20, A/B Foam, no CAFS, ladders through the back, tall deep rescue comp., command light, PTO gen, I could go on forever, but i figure since people have done this already and hopefully have some good advice, we are going to bid no later than 12-01, thanks.
    Deck gun remotly operated.
    brow light
    whelen howler siren.
    slide out, drop down trays
    integrated glove box compartments in rear of cab.
    flash light holders
    floor mounted switch for q siren
    crew head sets
    lower cross lays
    rear and front intake


    if you send me your email i will send pics of ours with the some of the stuff i am talking about.

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    Quite interesting. Our experience is quite the opposite of FIREINSTR in regard to a few items. Our Rescue-Pumper went into service in March/April.

    *We got rid of the piped deck gun all together, it's carried for portable ops
    *We did away with any slide-out tip downs as we studied many and found the mechanism takes up so much space that they rarely gain anything. We put in regular shelves and put light, rarely used stuff highest.
    *We moved our Q siren footswitch to the dash by the officers' left hand

    Our Toyne is a rearmount and we pleased with the layout, though next time we'd put the panel on the drivers side, not the curbside for many small reasons we failed to recognize earlier. We have no crosslays and went in favor of bumper donut rolls which are the biggest hit with our personnel of any feature. We also did away with any B foam system in favor of a couple of jugs and a portable eductor again given that we've used B-foam only once in 14 years that I can account for. And that could've been handled with a 5 gal pail.

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    An oil dry hopper is nice.
    Class 1 receiver hitches all 4 sides with power at each location for a winch you can move.

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    Default Fully evaluate all of your needs before going to bid.

    Are you building a Combination Rescue & Pumper that will function in both roles or a Pumper with Rescue Style Compartments as these are quite different ? The ability to be able to operate both functionally and efficiently for all of your predetermined needs within your response area is the #1 priority. Assuming that these needs where identified look at your current apparatus and identify what prohibits or hinders you in your current operations. Also look at the frequency of use of specific items on your current apparatus and if they are justifiable expenses on the new apparatus. Have these issues all been addressed in the new specifications that you have developed ? Will this apparatus improve the overall efficiency of your department's operations ? If not why not? Only your department can answer those questions. For example you have an A & B foam system and no CAFS as part of your specification. Did your department fully evaluate each of these options listing pros and cons of each as to how they would or would not impact your department's operations and efficiency. All aspects and equipment on the apparatus needs to be evaluated in this manner. With todays budget contraints and manpower limitations we must design apparatus that enable us to work more efficiently within those limitations.

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    Default Ladders or Hose

    Which do you use more, the ladders or hose? I personally do not like the ladders through the tank option since it makes the hosebed quite a bit higher. Ladders on our engines are not used that often since we have ladder trucks. IMO an engine (or rescue engine) is just that, an engine. I would put ladders above the compartment on OIC side on a rack and keep them out of the way. It will lower your hosebed at least a foot. Just some food for thought.

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    Default Good stuff

    a lot of the things mentioned have been done or considered. We have spent a lot of time on this project, was looking for ideas people had that worked or didn't work. For example we specd a winch that can mount on all 4 sides. There are times we could have used one, or think i would have been nice. Thanks for what you have said so far.

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    Here's one for ya....we put Hydraulic and electrical reels up in the "coffin" (top) compartmetns that feed down into the side compartmetns, to aid with the re-wind we went with Hannay reels with their "level wind" option. this even pays the cord ont the real during re-wind. We only did it on the electric reels only because they didn't have a level wind at the time that would work with Homatro CORE hose.
    As stated above, out and down trays do take up ALOT of room because of the brackets/rollers they ride on. they are nice, but something you need to think about, we put alot of thought into our rig and decided they would work for us.
    Roll up doors. We went with roll ups mainly becasue we run 2 intersates and you don't want to chance haveing an compartment door hanging out into traffic, however, with a roll up door you loose about 10 inches in the heigth of the compartment....again, just somethign to think about.
    Oil dry hopper...worth the money
    Coffin compartments are nice for stuff you may need every now and then or the things that you don't need to get to right away. Not to mention a place for hyd. and elec reels and the oil dry hopper. Becasue we went with coffins and knew that guys would be climbing around on the hose bed we chose to go with a diamon plate hose bed cover. It's a 4 door system, 2 rearward and 2 forward of the hose bed. DO NOT go with a 2 door system, your bust your nuts trying to get it open. Anyway, this hard cover gave the guys an nice platform to walk on and we didn't have to worry about them tripping over a soft cover, hose or couplings. To get up there we have a Zico, fold out apparatus ladder....that thing is slick..well worth the money.
    Through the tank ladder storage. Yes it dose make your hose bed higher, but we felt that was worth it. We didn't like the ladder racks. when you need a ladder you need a ladder..I would wrather open a door and pull instead of, making sure all the doors are closed, everyones out of the way, and flipping a switch, besides, thats just one more thing that could break.
    We considered a light tower, but for the same price went with a bnch of body mounted quartz lights; 2 brow, 2 quick raise on back of cab, 2 on each side of body and 2 rear, thats 10 total lights and boy dose it light up a scene.
    Some one mentione a remote deck guy...IMO it's not worth the $$$
    We also added a "locker" compartment. It's a small transverse compartment that is part of the pump modual, located ahead of the pump panel and below the cross lays. Handy for small things.
    Next to the cross lays we put a stokes/backboard compartment with access from either side.
    We set up the rig so that the Drivers side is equipped for structual firefighting and the officers side for rescue.
    We didn't do hyd. reels of connection in the front bumper. Some of those around us that have them have had problems with the lines freezing or the fittings constantly getting all funked up with road grime (we're in SW PA) so snow and road salt are plentyfull.
    Didn't do auto chains...we have a habit of ripping them off driving over median strips.
    The back of the body is a "flat back" instead of a traditional beaver tail. It still has and 8" step put it gave us a little more compartment room.
    Not sure who your aiming at to be the builder but if they don't already do it or you have'nt specked it go with a bigger front axle to get the widder front tires...better handeling. I think it's a 21K axle.

    here's a link to a picture of the rig
    http://www.mvfd5.com/rescue_engine_5-1.php
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoofTopTrucky View Post
    Here's one for ya....we put Hydraulic and electrical reels up in the "coffin" (top) compartmetns that feed down into the side compartmetns, to aid with the re-wind we went with Hannay reels with their "level wind" option. this even pays the cord ont the real during re-wind. We only did it on the electric reels only because they didn't have a level wind at the time that would work with Homatro CORE hose.
    As stated above, out and down trays do take up ALOT of room because of the brackets/rollers they ride on. they are nice, but something you need to think about, we put alot of thought into our rig and decided they would work for us.
    Roll up doors. We went with roll ups mainly becasue we run 2 intersates and you don't want to chance haveing an compartment door hanging out into traffic, however, with a roll up door you loose about 10 inches in the heigth of the compartment....again, just somethign to think about.
    Oil dry hopper...worth the money
    Coffin compartments are nice for stuff you may need every now and then or the things that you don't need to get to right away. Not to mention a place for hyd. and elec reels and the oil dry hopper. Becasue we went with coffins and knew that guys would be climbing around on the hose bed we chose to go with a diamon plate hose bed cover. It's a 4 door system, 2 rearward and 2 forward of the hose bed. DO NOT go with a 2 door system, your bust your nuts trying to get it open. Anyway, this hard cover gave the guys an nice platform to walk on and we didn't have to worry about them tripping over a soft cover, hose or couplings. To get up there we have a Zico, fold out apparatus ladder....that thing is slick..well worth the money.
    Through the tank ladder storage. Yes it dose make your hose bed higher, but we felt that was worth it. We didn't like the ladder racks. when you need a ladder you need a ladder..I would wrather open a door and pull instead of, making sure all the doors are closed, everyones out of the way, and flipping a switch, besides, thats just one more thing that could break.
    We considered a light tower, but for the same price went with a bnch of body mounted quartz lights; 2 brow, 2 quick raise on back of cab, 2 on each side of body and 2 rear, thats 10 total lights and boy dose it light up a scene.
    Some one mentione a remote deck guy...IMO it's not worth the $$$
    We also added a "locker" compartment. It's a small transverse compartment that is part of the pump modual, located ahead of the pump panel and below the cross lays. Handy for small things.
    Next to the cross lays we put a stokes/backboard compartment with access from either side.
    We set up the rig so that the Drivers side is equipped for structual firefighting and the officers side for rescue.
    We didn't do hyd. reels of connection in the front bumper. Some of those around us that have them have had problems with the lines freezing or the fittings constantly getting all funked up with road grime (we're in SW PA) so snow and road salt are plentyfull.
    Didn't do auto chains...we have a habit of ripping them off driving over median strips.
    The back of the body is a "flat back" instead of a traditional beaver tail. It still has and 8" step put it gave us a little more compartment room.
    Not sure who your aiming at to be the builder but if they don't already do it or you have'nt specked it go with a bigger front axle to get the widder front tires...better handeling. I think it's a 21K axle.

    here's a link to a picture of the rig
    http://www.mvfd5.com/rescue_engine_5-1.php

    That rig is a long as your new tiiller!

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    Our experience from our Squad (rescue-engine)

    Don't go with remote mount anything,
    Ditto on the drop-down slide out trays,
    Never used the rear intake, but wished we had a front!!,
    Just get 1 foam tank, put some AR-AFFF in it, and you use it for both class A & B, just vary the percentage OR, carry foam in pales and skip the foam system all together,
    Hydraulic Reels take up space, we took ours out, use either 16 or 30 ft hoses and 2 pumps. Your going to have at least 1 portable pump anyway, so what is 1 more??,
    Heavy stuff low, light stuff high; often used low, rarely used high(it works),

    Finally, our Squad is a top mount pump, which I pretty much hate. However, if you are running interstate or limited access highway's, I'm all for it safety wise.

    Oh yeah, you can save on paint costs if you just use chevrons on the entire apparatus
    A Fire Chief has ONLY 1 JOB and that's to take care of his fireman. EVERYTHING else falls under this.

  12. #12
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    our RP is a a 2008 KME 2 identical rigs

    first off, I like the rig but am still being warmed up to the fact that KME built it (they seem to be 1000 times better in the last 10 years)

    Best things...
    1.) on the rear of the cab we have a compartment on either side under the rear jump seats that you access from the outside. We put the can, ABC ext on on side, irons and the rabbit tool on the other. then laying down there is 2 6 foot NY hooks.
    2.) full depth, rescue compartments both sides
    3.) the MFD Pretator cab (just a little extra room to stretch the feet out.
    4.) 2 x speedlays 2 wide stacked cabible of 300 ft with sb
    5.) Single arm ladder rack, keeps the engines ladders access ible but not from raising up the hose bed
    6.) short and low hosebed, could have been a little lower but we wanted length to enhance shoulder loads of lines to be skid loaded out (we could just have made them shortened if in a standard RP hose bed but could slide forward under hard braking and we didn't want that)
    7.) painted it full red... kind of a throw back to the old pumpers of the department
    8.) all rear seats in cab forward facing, lets them see out when arriving. fire comm is not yet tied into the radio but that is one of my next steps to help in cab communication
    9.) electric fan in luie of gas, food on stove calls don't need the truck to show up to clear out the smells
    10.) all compartments planned out prior to even doing the prebuild, minor changes but we made it to have fire on drivers side and all rescue stuff on officers side.... helps out when on freeway , we just always position to have our rescue side protected
    11.) coffin compartments on drivers side (haz matpads and suits, water rescue stuff, and misc fire tools like hose jacket and hose clamp) , under ladder storage (open on top) for rescue jacks
    12.) Fire Main and Fireground vehicle radios in the cab

    Mixed thoughts...
    1.) the front bumper is set up with 2 100 hannay hydraulic reels, the powers that be have not bought the new rescue tools for it and we are running our old tools that happen to be at their end of their life. Slick set up I can't wait to have it finished... word to the wise.... get your specialty tools prior to delievery of the rig. also would have made the hose compartment just a bit bigger on the bumper
    2.) top mount pump... don't want to dig that one up, dinners at the station have been ruined over this debate. one nice thing is that the PO can run the deck gun if needed.
    3.) MIV valves for intakes, they are too quick to open. I talked to the guys from waterous at FDIC and they said oh well pretty much. They open too fast and slam pressure onto the attack line. MIxed bc I like the manuel control of them but don't like it that they can not be threaded.
    4.) rear roll up... gets too much dirt stuck in it especially in the winter.

    Don't Likes....
    Not too much do i not like, well rounded rig. Just issues getting the euipment purchased. Unfortunately my city is unable to have a dedicated rescue so these two rigs have been good to us.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FD1976 View Post
    That rig is a long as your new tiiller!
    LOL...no It's not that bad...25' shorter.
    We just down sized to one engine instead of 2, and the one we got rid of, '97 Hush, clocked in at 38' OAL that one there is "only" 35'.
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    check out our rig @ www.rossfordfire.com 2009 KME RE .......or email me for pics and specs.
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    Default Some suggestions

    Not knowing where you are located, what your budget is or what you have in your specs already some of these ideas might not be practical for you or might be in your spec already but I have found these items very popular and work well in most areas.

    • As the very wise RFDACM02 said get the siren and air horn switches off the floor. Keeps people from hitting them by mistake at 3:00 AM and ****ing people off. If you're in snow country it also solves the corrosion problem you get with them after a few years.
    • Speedometer on the officer's side.
    • 12 volt side scene lighting. Have at least one mounted on each side of the cab and the body. Have them wired so they come on when you open that side cab door or by a rocker switch on the panel. Also do not have them wired to park brake, have them hot all the time so you can turn them on while moving.
    • A pair of 12 volt scene lights on the rear of the truck. Have these lights wired so they come on when the truck is placed in reverse, switched on the switch panel and another switch at the rear of the truck in case you forget to throw them on when you get out of the truck.
    • Brow light. Make it a 12 volt rather than 120 or 240. Today's 12 volt lighting works very well and you don't have to have the generator running to activate it while underway.
    • Horizontal grab bars on the rear cab doors. Some call them Chicago bars.
    • Extra 7" red and white interior dome lights in the front and crew area. At least one of each in each area. Whites switched with the doors and at the light and the red just at the light. Tow of each in the rear crew would be ideal.
    • Automatic Traction Control option with the ABS brakes. Not that expensive of an option.
    • Rear axle differential lock. Even if you don't live in snow country is great for muddy roads.
    • Fuel shut off valves at the fuel filter. Your service tech will love you for this.
    • Small flashing warning lights in the cab doors when the door is open.
    • 12 volt power outlets on the front of the dog house.
    • Have the radio antennas installed when the chassis is built. Your radio installer will love you for this.
    • Have the park brake control mounted in the center of the dog house so it is accessible by both the driver and officer.
    • Extra 12 volt power drop to the officer's seat box and maybe to the rear of the dog house.
    • Battery jumper studs in the step well.
    • Air horn button on the pump panel.
    • Air inlet/outlet connection on the pump panel. Also a 25 or 50 foot length of air hose in a compartment. Great for running air tools, inflating a tire or just having air available.
    • Large LED tank level gauge such as the Whelen PSTANK. Depending on your SOP's and manpower have one mounted on each side and maybe one on the rear of the truck. I do a lot of them on the rear corner of the cab or high up on the pump panel
    • Back lit pump panel gauges
    • Foam tank refill system. Saves you from humping foam buckets up over the side of the truck.
    • Go with a Trident Air primer in place of the electric. Everyone I have ever spec'ed on a truck has loved them.
    • Arrow stick
    • Reflective tape on the edges of all the pull out shelves and tool boards.
    • Reflective tape in the rub rails.
    • If you are going to have roll up doors invest in catch pans for them. When the doors are wet and you open them they spin water into the compartment. The catch pans, if built properly, will prevent this and also catch any dirt that might fall off the doors when you open them.
    • Add some funds (allowance) for tool mounting hardware i.e. brackets, clamps, hooks and holders. Easier to have it built into the price of the truck rather then to try and find the money when the truck is sitting in the bay empty.
    • Get at least one round pintle hook type tow eye with a hitch receiver mount so you can attach it to the winch points and use as a tie off.
    • If you are having the suction hose stored in the body like the ladders and the body/storage compartment is long enough get 12 foot suctions rather than 10 footers. Sometimes that extra two feet will save you from pulling another full length. On one truck I did we did one 12 footer and two six footers coupled together so you could do a 12 and a 6 rather than 2 twelve's.
    • If you are want to carry a backboard or stokes and do not have a transverse compartment, most rescue pumpers don't, and the hosebed dividers are tall enough have storage boxes built into a divider for these.
    • If you are going to have 120 volt outlets on the body put them in a compartment rather than in the wheel wells or on the rear body. After a few years the outlet covers loose their tightness and the outlets will get road grime in them and corrode.

    Well that's all I have off the top of my head. I can come up with some photos for most if not all of these items if you would like. PM or email me northguy001@comcast.net if you would like me to send you some.

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    One thing I forgot to mention. It's something we started doing pre-hydraulic gens. Make sure you have the ability to switch ALL scene lighting from the cab and pump panel. Especialy the cab. This way when you pull up all you do is flick some switches and you have 360 degree scene lighting.
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  17. #17
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    the parking brake on the middle on the dog house seems to just make it a hassle for the driver, and barely accessible for the officer.

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    Lots of great ideas so I wont say too much.

    1. Weldon Multiplexing

    2. I do not know your response area but please consider your wheelbase. I see too many trucks with huge cabs that add 10,15, even 20 inches to the wheel base. Most trips are what....3-5 minutes? Why do you need a rear cab area that is the size of a living room? Take a look at a fire truck from the 60's and the cab takes up maybe 25% of the OAL. Now look at some trucks coming off the line today and it looks like some cabs are 50% of the OAL.

    An engine is only effective if it can get to the scene.

  19. #19
    Oh Thank Heaven for SQ27 SquadCaptain27's Avatar
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    Check this out

    A Little out of date now but you'll still get the point. Works fantastic for us.

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=97308

    Sean Desjardins, Captain
    Westampton Township Emergency Services
    http://www.westamptonfire.org

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