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    Default Another Pierce Aerialscope in PA

    State College/Alpha Fire Co has just received their newly refurbished Pierce ArrowXT Aerialscope. Saw it putting up Christmas lights in a neighboring town.[IMG][/IMG]

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    hanging xmas lights......WTF?
    RK
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Definitely one way to do it.....

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    Don't let scarecow see this. He would think that someone was listening to his big ideas and has formed a fire department/public works department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    hanging xmas lights......WTF?
    Yep. As a matter of fact, that's what we did with our new truck. We got it in early December last year. To train our engineers how to operate it and allow them to get proficient with it, we did all the Christmas lights for the town.

    Of course we did some actual laddering of buildings with it too, but in a lot of people's opinions, the lights helped more. Forced us to practice short jacking and creative ladder maneuvers so we didn't block the entire street.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATFDFF View Post
    Yep. As a matter of fact, that's what we did with our new truck. We got it in early December last year. To train our engineers how to operate it and allow them to get proficient with it, we did all the Christmas lights for the town.

    Of course we did some actual laddering of buildings with it too, but in a lot of people's opinions, the lights helped more. Forced us to practice short jacking and creative ladder maneuvers so we didn't block the entire street.
    Never waste a good opportunity to train the men. Hanging Christmas lights around town may seem to some as a joke, or waste of FD resources, or something the FD has no business doing, or something only "jolly volleys" would do with their million dollar "volley trolleys"...but that's just being narrow-minded and short-sighted. By taking your aerial around various buildings in town and setting it up in tough places, as you pointed out, you're not only getting in good aerial ops practice, but you're in effect pre-planning all those buildings at the same time. As long as the intent to make it into a training experience is genuine, and the governing body of your FD approves of the activity, then have at it.

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    I happened to be in State College last Thursday when the truck arrived into town. It is not in service yet and I was told it would not be for about a month while personnel were trained and equipment mounted. Being that the rig is in their hands for less than a week, I commend them for using it whether hanging Christmas lights or other training. I would much rather find out there is some problem with the unit hanging Christmas lights than up in the platform over a structure fire.

    Now, as a volunteer company dependent on public support, ANY opportunity that puts the fire company personnel in front of the public doing good will should be embraced (IMHO).

    I can tell you that I have known the Alpha Fire Company for over 30 years and they run a class operation. I would join in a heart beat if I lived in the area. They have grown from one station to now having 3. They are running two platforms (Sutphen and now the Pierce) and I was told are planning on adding a Quint next year to the other station.

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    slippery slope IMO, but to each his own. You could end up cleaning the streets for "hose handling" techniques as well.

    It's bad enough that the governing body doesn't adequately fund the FD - lack of paid staff, but this IS is someone else's job description and potentially cutting them out of pay as well.

    You can train without hanging xmas lights.
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 10-30-2009 at 12:32 PM.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    slippery slope IMO, but to each his own. You could end up cleaning the streets for "hose handling" techniques as well.

    It's bad enough that the governing body doesn't adequately fund the FD - lack of paid staff, but this IS is someone else's job description and potentially cutting them out of pay as well.

    You can train without hanging xmas lights.
    I don't know how State College borough works, but in lots of places around Pennsylvania, if the fire company didn't do it, it wouldn't get done at all. And I'd hazard a guess (and it's just that, a guess) that you don't have to get too far in any direction from the big city of Memphis to find very similar situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    slippery slope IMO, but to each his own. You could end up cleaning the streets for "hose handling" techniques as well.

    It's bad enough that the governing body doesn't adequately fund the FD - lack of paid staff, but this IS is someone else's job description and potentially cutting them out of pay as well.

    You can train without hanging xmas lights.
    Little things like hanging Christmas lights may be how they keep in the good graces of the powers-that-be enough to get a brand new AerialScope.

    In smaller towns/cities, helping out with little things helps out come budget time. When my vollie department was still under the city, we would occassionally help out the city guys with blowing out culverts and whistles with our pumpers or using the HRT's to open bent whistles back up. It paid off come budget time when we reminded the council of those little things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    slippery slope IMO, but to each his own. You could end up cleaning the streets for "hose handling" techniques as well.

    It's bad enough that the governing body doesn't adequately fund the FD - lack of paid staff, but this IS is someone else's job description and potentially cutting them out of pay as well.

    You can train without hanging xmas lights.
    You Go Girl. Start a protest, the International Association of Christmas Decorators is having the bread snatched right out their mouths by religious extremists aided by unenlightened FF. Bunch of scabs. Where is Obama and Holder. Make the call.

    You see that Angel figure sitting there ready to go on the top of the tree? That's Church/State violation. You should sue someone for stepping on your leftist feelings.

    What a predictible tool. Your nonsense go over big in the firehouse?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Little things like hanging Christmas lights may be how they keep in the good graces of the powers-that-be enough to get a brand new AerialScope.

    In smaller towns/cities, helping out with little things helps out come budget time. When my vollie department was still under the city, we would occassionally help out the city guys with blowing out culverts and whistles with our pumpers or using the HRT's to open bent whistles back up. It paid off come budget time when we reminded the council of those little things.
    Jet wash the walls in wet well at the sewer lift station, pump flooded manholes, water for concrete work at the rural cemetary, backup generator for multiple projects, etc, etc. If had an aerial would certainly put up the Christmas lights. And perhaps get cats out of trees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    You Go Girl. Start a protest, the International Association of Christmas Decorators is having the bread snatched right out their mouths by religious extremists aided by unenlightened FF. Bunch of scabs. Where is Obama and Holder. Make the call.

    You see that Angel figure sitting there ready to go on the top of the tree? That's Church/State violation. You should sue someone for stepping on your leftist feelings.

    What a predictible tool. Your nonsense go over big in the firehouse?
    Touche'. I was thinkin' then same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Jet wash the walls in wet well at the sewer lift station, pump flooded manholes, water for concrete work at the rural cemetary, backup generator for multiple projects, etc, etc. If had an aerial would certainly put up the Christmas lights. And perhaps get cats out of trees.
    You almost got me, there! Iowa doesn't have trees!

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    We use our Pierce/Aerialscope (the first in PA) to help with local projects also.

    The banner for this week's Halloween parade wouldn't get up if it weren't for us.

    It is great PR to help other groups (the Rotary Club sponsors the parade) so they get to know you. Maybe they'll help raise some money to pay for the new truck.

    But when your a paid department you don't have to worry about such things.

    Bet she never flipped a pancake or burger to help raise funds! (Standing in the street with a boot for Jerry's kids doesn't count)
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    slippery slope IMO, but to each his own. You could end up cleaning the streets for "hose handling" techniques as well.

    It's bad enough that the governing body doesn't adequately fund the FD - lack of paid staff, but this IS is someone else's job description and potentially cutting them out of pay as well.

    You can train without hanging xmas lights.
    If your funding comment was regarding the department in the photo, then I can assure you that you are way off base. This department is 100% funded through the local COG and Relief funding. They are as well funded as a fire department can be short of paying wages.

    As another already mentioned, they run a pretty tight ship there - real training/certification requirements for all personnel, plenty of in-house and outside training opportunities, duty crew in-house staffing.

    I understand the concern regarding taking money out of somebody else's wallet and agree, but up here the local VFD helping out to hang Christmas decorations isn't much of an issue. As mentioned, if they didn't do it, it might not get done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonfyre View Post
    We use our Pierce/Aerialscope (the first in PA) to help with local projects also.

    The banner for this week's Halloween parade wouldn't get up if it weren't for us.

    It is great PR to help other groups (the Rotary Club sponsors the parade) so they get to know you. Maybe they'll help raise some money to pay for the new truck.

    But when your a paid department you don't have to worry about such things.

    Actually, you do need to worry about these things, especially as a smaller career department. Maintaining a good standing with the community (PR) is very important, because they will be the ones that the politicians listen to regarding what are often ill-advised or ill-conceived ideas that will negatively affect FD staffing, funding and/or response capabilities.

    In some respects, working in a paid fire department can be not much different than any other job. You don't always have the equipment you need to do your job. You can't always get the equipment you do have replaced or repaired when it should be. You don't always have the number of workers you should have to do the job. The Boss doesn't always listen to those actually doing the job when decisions about the job need made.

    Bet she never flipped a pancake or burger to help raise funds! (Standing in the street with a boot for Jerry's kids doesn't count)
    Just because we don't have to do fundraising for our operational costs, doesn't mean that we've never "flipped a pancake or burger to help raise funds". Maybe we're involved with raising funds for other things, like our kid's school, sports teams, other activities, other organizations we're involved with.

    Why doesn't "standing in the street with a boot for Jerry's kids" count? Is it because we aren't collecting for ourselves?

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    I would think this would be more complicated in a VFD due to insurance issues. We're still hearing about insurance policies not cover non-emergency or training injuries. While string Xmas lights can be a useful training evolution, it may fail the straight face test with the insurance company.

    Our career staff used to have to repair street lights, work on the municipal fire alarm system and flagpoles with our ladder truck. In fact the truck was permanently damaged while stringing F/A wire! The aerial was bent and a few years later had to be shortened to 80ft. from 100 to meet the UL tests. Now we do not do anything unless it poses an imminent threat. SO aside from true training and fire runs, we are required to knock down icicles that are hanging over the sidewalk in one part of our downtown. Of course this really is the building owners responsibility, but due to the hazard we are required to make the sidewalk safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    You Go Girl. Start a protest, the International Association of Christmas Decorators is having the bread snatched right out their mouths by religious extremists aided by unenlightened FF. Bunch of scabs. Where is Obama and Holder. Make the call.

    You see that Angel figure sitting there ready to go on the top of the tree? That's Church/State violation. You should sue someone for stepping on your leftist feelings.

    What a predictible tool. Your nonsense go over big in the firehouse?
    And yet you are the one that sounds like your panties are in a wad. I don't think you can show me a protest. I stated my opinion. Several people have made reasonable statements as to why they disagree and that is fine and what makes the forums fun and interesting to read.

    Are you always such an azzhole when someone disagrees with you?
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    You Go Girl. Start a protest, the International Association of Christmas Decorators is having the bread snatched right out their mouths by religious extremists aided by unenlightened FF. Bunch of scabs. Where is Obama and Holder. Make the call.

    You see that Angel figure sitting there ready to go on the top of the tree? That's Church/State violation. You should sue someone for stepping on your leftist feelings.

    What a predictible tool. Your nonsense go over big in the firehouse?
    Look, it's real easy to be a wise *** about stuff when you live in Nowhereville, Iowa with a population of 6. Not so easy when you live in an area served by UNION employees, both FD, and otherwise. My career FD used to go out on trees down in the road calls and clear the road. Now we respond and have been ordered to contact dispatch for them to send forestry. We were crossing into their job description. I know what your answer will be, some totally off the wall rip on Unions. Well have at it, you may not like it but that's the way it really is. You need to learn that there is more to this country than the thousands of acres of corn that you see all around you and there are places where people have jobs with actual job descriptions and defined duties.

    It amazes me that people have a civil discussion with differing views that are both logical and yet it turns into this nonsense
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    If your funding comment was regarding the department in the photo, then I can assure you that you are way off base. This department is 100% funded through the local COG and Relief funding. They are as well funded as a fire department can be short of paying wages.

    As another already mentioned, they run a pretty tight ship there - real training/certification requirements for all personnel, plenty of in-house and outside training opportunities, duty crew in-house staffing.

    I understand the concern regarding taking money out of somebody else's wallet and agree, but up here the local VFD helping out to hang Christmas decorations isn't much of an issue. As mentioned, if they didn't do it, it might not get done.
    Please don't misunderstand what I am saying, although I don't agree with using the FD to hang x-mas lights, I get why they are doing it and my issue is not with the members or the FD per say, but with the city, town, or whatever their governing body is.

    I have been a volunteer and would be again if I lived in a community that had such a program.

    I am sure that the FD is funded nicely as they wouldn't have such a nice piece of equipment. But please understand that staffing is usually 90% of a fire departments budget and the best and only way to ensure the best response times and when it comes down to it, that is why we are here - response times. John Q. doesn't care what you show up on, as long as you show up. Any gocerning body that takes fire protection seriously will pay to staff it. That's not a knock to any VFD - there are alot of them that are very good and very progressive and may be great departments that are just run by **** poor governing bodies who would rather spend the money on other stuff. Face it, every town with volunteer fire departments are usually paying their police officers. And that's my entire point.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Please don't misunderstand what I am saying, although I don't agree with using the FD to hang x-mas lights, I get why they are doing it and my issue is not with the members or the FD per say, but with the city, town, or whatever their governing body is.

    I have been a volunteer and would be again if I lived in a community that had such a program.

    I am sure that the FD is funded nicely as they wouldn't have such a nice piece of equipment. But please understand that staffing is usually 90% of a fire departments budget and the best and only way to ensure the best response times and when it comes down to it, that is why we are here - response times. John Q. doesn't care what you show up on, as long as you show up. Any gocerning body that takes fire protection seriously will pay to staff it. That's not a knock to any VFD - there are alot of them that are very good and very progressive and may be great departments that are just run by **** poor governing bodies who would rather spend the money on other stuff. Face it, every town with volunteer fire departments are usually paying their police officers. And that's my entire point.
    Thanks for the clarification. I agree with your point. I see it a lot where I live now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Face it, every town with volunteer fire departments are usually paying their police officers. And that's my entire point.
    Good point!

    I've never heard of a police department having a beef & beer to fund a bullet buying program.

    Our borough, about 5,300 population, has 6 officers and their contract includes uniform cleaning. We had to get a state grant to purchase our gear cleaning washer and dryer.
    Steve Dragon
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    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

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    I don't see any thing wrong with firefighters making "Public Service" calls. Whether it's filling pools, changing light bulbs, pumping out basements, rescuing pets, or hanging christmas lights.

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    It is because of these "services" we do that people still love us and have no problem supporting fire departments nation wide during these economic times. If it keeps the rubber on the road and the public happy, than some times you just have to take a bite of that big ol' shi* sandwich and get on with your day.

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