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  1. #1
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    Default Chemical Suicide

    Does anyone know what chemicals are involved in this?? I wanna plan a training about awarness for this.... I think we will see this alot in the future.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrown8988 View Post
    Does anyone know what chemicals are involved in this?? I wanna plan a training about awareness for this.... I think we will see this a lot in the future.
    A thumbnail overview can be found at: http://www.inquisitr.com/19935/deter...to-end-a-life/

    The agent generated is hydrogen sulfide gas. The the victim usually chooses some sort of confined space, IE car, bathroom, bedroom.

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    Forum Member firehick's Avatar
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    http://firefighterclosecalls.com/fullstory.php?81417

    Person Down in Auto/New way to commit suicide
    Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - Recently a new way to commit suicide has been discovered by mixing two chemicals that can be bought over the counter at local stores. They are Bonide Ė a sulfur spray used as an insecticide for fruit trees and hydrochloric (muriatic) acid. Once mixed, the chemicals produce heat and a flammable, noxious gas that causes the subject to pass out and the heart stop within minutes. The process appears to be quick and painless. Two recent cases, one in Pasadena, California and the other at Lake Allatoona in Bartow County, Georgia, involved young men in their early 20ís. Both were found locked inside their cars with the chemicals. Each left a note on the car warning anyone around of danger. The car at Lake Allatoona had been taped to prevent gas from escaping.

    Does this sound like a routine call that most of us would respond to and take similar action?

    Itís Sunday morning 0730 hours, you respond to a person down in auto. You locate a car in the empty parking lot of a business. The engine and med unit pull up near the vehicle and personnel see a person inside that appears to be asleep or unconscious. Wearing safety glasses and medical gloves, you walk up to the car and knock on the window.

    The patient does not respond to your knock on the window, and the doors are locked.

    What action will you take? Will you hurry to make patient access? Will you use a lockout tool, center punch, or halligan to make entry?

    You make access, a rush of warm air comes out of the vehicle and you smell a sharp odor. You have just become a victim and have been exposed to a noxious possibly fatal gas.

    What could you have done differently? You are the first-in unit. How should you respond to this type of incident?



    1. Do not become complacent! Your response should be similar on every call.

    2. Be well trained, know your job, do your job.

    3. Start your size-up from the time a call is dispatched.

    4. Establish a strong command and control the scene.

    5. Donít go rushing in.

    6. Survey the scene.

    7. Does the scene look routine?

    8. Do you see anything unusual? (Example: A note on the window, containers inside the vehicle and taped windows or vents).

    9. Is the scene safe?

    10. Wear the appropriate PPE.

    11. Establish a Hot Zone.

    12. Develop a plan of action and coordinate activities.

    13. Call for additional resources. (Hazmat Team, PD, etc.)

    14. Did PD arrive prior to FD and become contaminated requiring emergency decon and first aid?

    The call listed in the first paragraph of this document started as a routine person down call. This type of incident can easily expand into a full blown Hazardous Materials Incident with a multijurisdictional response. Be aware of this new way to commit suicide and donít become a victim. Use common sense and stay safe.

    To review a newspaper article and pictures regarding the suicide in Pasadena, California, visit:

    http://beaconmedianews.com/2008/08/2...e-2003-vw-bug/

    To review a newspaper article and pictures regarding the suicide in Barton, Georgia visit:
    http://www.daily-tribune.com/index.c...6EC6D537211BFE

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    thanks i am going to put together a powerpoint presentaion for training awareness if anyone would like a copy give me your email.

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    lets just pray and hope that they keep leaving warning signs for us!!

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    Excellent information. Thank you for posting.
    - Any of the Haz mat guys on here have any idea of how long the mixture will continue to produce gas?
    - Neutralizing agents that can be added?
    -I have learned people will forget what you said,
    -People will forget what you did,
    -But people will never forget how you made them feel!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrown8988 View Post
    thanks i am going to put together a powerpoint presentaion for training awareness if anyone would like a copy give me your email.
    You have e-mail and private messaging disabled? I can't contact you to give you my e-mail address.
    "You see things and you ask, 'Why'? I dream of things that never were and I say, 'Why not'?

    "I used to work in a fire hydrant factory. You couldn't park anywhere near the place."

    "When you are kind to someone in trouble, you hope they'll remember and be kind to someone else. And it'll become like a wildfire."

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    I recently received an e-mail from our assistant chief regarding a hydrogen sulfide suicide that had warnings all over the car...pretty scary.

    But here's the crazy part, a day or two later, I read this article:

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/10/09...ion/index.html

    It discussed how a scientist is using hydrogen sulfide to help "stall" the death process in order to give a patient a better chance for survival.

    It's ironic how people can use the same chemical for 2 totally opposite goals.
    Be careful out there.

    Pete

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave404 View Post
    Excellent information. Thank you for posting.
    - Any of the Haz mat guys on here have any idea of how long the mixture will continue to produce gas?
    - Neutralizing agents that can be added?
    The reaction will continue until reactants are consumed- probably no more than a few minutes, but if there's uneven mixing, unreacted material may remain, and disruption could cause mixing and additional hydrogen sulfide generation.

    For neutralization, addition of sodium bicarb (baking soda) or other alkali would shut down the reaction.

    Note that hydrogen sulfide quickly reduces the ability to smell the stuff; you get one or two sniffs, and the smell "goes away." Very dangerous in confined spaces. Fortunately, while the gas is toxic, it does take quite a bit of the stuff; the 5-minute LC50 is several hundred ppm. IDLH is 100 ppm. Detection (rotten egg smell) starts at 5 parts per BILLION.

    From this, there's no need to panic if the smell is present, but ventilate the heck out of it and hurry up.

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    Jbrown,
    Just to let you know, NYS Fire has a training program about chemical suicides. I attended earlier this year. It is pretty good, maybe you could contact them and see if they could come out to you department for the training.

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    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Did you notice his post was from 2009? I HOPE he has gotten training since then....
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    whoops, that's what happens when you respond before your first cup of coffee. I got duped by the spammers.

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    It's Ok. Welcome to the club.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Just to add another angle to the mix, I know of one person who used an industrial cylinder of CO gas and a oxygen mask to do the job. Problem is, it left VERY HIGH CO levels in the house, I believe around 17-1800 buy the time they figured things out and got a meter in there. The medics did not know there was Hazmat involved when they first went in. Several ended up at the ER with moderate symptoms. Just another thing to be aware of.

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    Had a similar incident here a little while back. Body in a car with a note of poison gas on the window. Trooper saw the note and backed off and isolated. He did manage to glimpse a charcoal grill in the back seat. When we did recon we saw the grill, full of white charcoal, and no buckets or other items. We broke a small window and had CO readings over 500 PPM. It was much easier to mitigate than the chemical suicide.

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