Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Attack hose

  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    25

    Default Attack hose

    My department is going to undertake evaluations on different manufacturers of hose. We are looking at Mercedes, Niehder, and Snaptite. Before I reinvent the wheel has anybody evaluated these? I am looking at Aquaflow plus, Ultra Force 2000 and Ponn Supreme respectively. Also I am considering 100' lengths instead of 50', is anybody using this length? Also one more question which maybe subject to the biggest debate. How about switching to using just 2" and 5", attack and supply. Eliminating the 1 3/4" and 2 1/2" to be replaced by the 2"?


  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bryn Athyn, Pa.
    Posts
    1,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MAFDCAPT View Post
    My department is going to undertake evaluations on different manufacturers of hose. We are looking at Mercedes, Niehder, and Snaptite. Before I reinvent the wheel has anybody evaluated these? I am looking at Aquaflow plus, Ultra Force 2000 and Ponn Supreme respectively. Also I am considering 100' lengths instead of 50', is anybody using this length? Also one more question which maybe subject to the biggest debate. How about switching to using just 2" and 5", attack and supply. Eliminating the 1 3/4" and 2 1/2" to be replaced by the 2"?
    We have several 100' lengths of 2" and several of 1-3/4." Some people like them, some don't. Likelyhood is that we'll stick with 50' next go 'round.

    As to the sizes, reducing the number of sizes that you carry is always tempting. But 2" really doesn't carry the punch of 2-1/2." Suggest you do some testing before you make your decision.

    We use 200' - 1-3/4 crosslays as our normal attack line for residential fires. We also carry 300' - 2" crosslays. We refer to them as "rear of the building" lines.

  3. #3
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MAFDCAPT View Post
    My department is going to undertake evaluations on different manufacturers of hose. We are looking at Mercedes, Niehder, and Snaptite. Before I reinvent the wheel has anybody evaluated these? I am looking at Aquaflow plus, Ultra Force 2000 and Ponn Supreme respectively. Also I am considering 100' lengths instead of 50', is anybody using this length? Also one more question which maybe subject to the biggest debate. How about switching to using just 2" and 5", attack and supply. Eliminating the 1 3/4" and 2 1/2" to be replaced by the 2"?
    My volly FD uses 2 inch exclusively for fire attack. We use low pressure 200gpm at 75psi combo tips on top of a 1 1/4 inch slug tip. We underpump the combo tip to get about 160gpm at around 55psi nozzle pressure. If we need more we can go to 200 gpm at 75psi, and if it gets really serious we can go to the slug tip and flow 300 at around 45 psi nozzle pressure.

    We use 3 inch hose to a gated wye for an apartment line, and for supplying sprinklers and master streams. We use 5 inch to supply the engine.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  4. #4
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,365

    Default

    Have you considered Angus Hi-Combat???? As an interior firefighter, I have to say it was the best hose I ever used hands down.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    see this report, starting on page 29 specifically.

    http://www.1ststriketech.com/Testimo...untyReport.pdf

    I've heard nothing favorable about mercedes. I hear from our hose testing guy that Hi-combat fails at higher rates than other brands and is EXPENSIVE. I also know that Ponn Supreme is pretty tough long lasting stuff.

    I dont care for 100' lengths. You cant roll them easily (long single rolls fall apart easily) and you lose the flexibility of having 50' lengths.

    Don't switch to all 2" hose. 1 3/4" is noticeably easier to handle and 2 1/2" gives you much better hydraulic performance at 250 GPM and higher.

  6. #6
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,365

    Default

    Our Hi-Combat was always good to us, except for one time when we took out a sliding glass door, and dragged it across some glass. Not good.

    And I agree with MG's statement about the 100' lengths- a pain in the *** to roll, carry and store.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  7. #7
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Our Hi-Combat was always good to us, except for one time when we took out a sliding glass door, and dragged it across some glass. Not good.

    And I agree with MG's statement about the 100' lengths- a pain in the *** to roll, carry and store.
    My volly FD buys only 100 foot lengths of 2 inch hose. We like it for our crosslays. Less couplings, less cost, less snagging when you deploy it.

    We like it, your opinion may vary.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  8. #8
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,365

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    My volly FD buys only 100 foot lengths of 2 inch hose. We like it for our crosslays. Less couplings, less cost, less snagging when you deploy it.

    We like it, your opinion may vary.
    Good point, good point.....Less couplings to have to un-snag from corners....takes up less space in the crosslay.....They have their pros and cons.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  9. #9
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Good point, good point.....Less couplings to have to un-snag from corners....takes up less space in the crosslay.....They have their pros and cons.
    I will agree with you that rolling it can be a pain. We have gone to twin donuts for storage.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Guys thanks for the input so far. How many other people are using the Vindicator? It should to good to be true. Where can you buy them? As far as hose I have heard the Hi-Combat is very slippery. Looks like the Ponn Conquest has the highest flow and weights the least.

  11. #11
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,365

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MAFDCAPT View Post
    As far as hose I have heard the Hi-Combat is very slippery.
    Yes it is. That's why it's so beautiful! Flows like water around corners and up stairs!

    As for the vidicator, I will issue my standard statement for it and all other fog nozzles: The Smoothbore nozzle has hundreds of years of use proving it's effectiveness in the ability to deliver a large amount of water in a rapid fashion leading to quicker and more efficient knock downs.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,807

    Default

    We just finished evaluating attack hose and determined we'd go back to Ponn Supreme. We tried Conquest for a while and found it didn't live up to the price. On the other hand our older Supreme is still perfect. We've now evaluated the following: Key Lite, Aqua Flow Plus, ATI Jafline, National Dura-Pak, and Ponn Supreme. We looked mainly at friction loss and kink resistance. Kink resistance was important as we're switching to smoothbores and Vindicators for the primary 1.75" attack lines. All tests were run the same way from the same discharge. Here's what we found:

    Tests of 100 ft (2-50 ft) at 180 gpm
    Key Lite FL 80 psi / kink @ 48"
    Aqua Flow Plus FL 50 psi / kink @ 48"
    ATI Jafline FL 70 psi / kink @ 72"
    Dura-Pak FL 50 psi / Kink @ 30"
    Ponn Supreme FL 60 psi / Kink @ 24"

    Kink test was how small a circle we could make while flowing 180 gpm without any kink visible. Our FL test method was to use a smoothbore nozzle and pitot gauge to attain the 180 gpm. The FL includes our discharge which was immeasurable between the discharge gauge and an inline gauge placed on the discharge itself.

    In the end, we found that since our Ponn Supreme has held up the best of any hose we own, had the best kink resistance and fairly low FL, it was our top choice. Not bad price wise as well.

  13. #13
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,864

    Default

    My volly FD tested the Vindiator on the 1 3/4 inch (back when we used 1 3/4 inh hose) and i was simply amazed at the flow you could get with such low nozzle pressure and little or no nozzle reaction.

    We were flowing 167 gpm with a nozzle pressure of around 25 psi and a range of about 50 feet or so. the amazing part is holding the line one handed doing that.

    Apparently it was too radical for the FD at the time because we have not bought any to date. I wouldn't put it on every line but as a high flow blitz line I liked it very much.

    I do agree with using smoothbores and would change in a heart beat if i could convince the powers that be to do it.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,807

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post

    As for the vidicator, I will issue my standard statement for it and all other fog nozzles: The Smoothbore nozzle has hundreds of years of use proving it's effectiveness in the ability to deliver a large amount of water in a rapid fashion leading to quicker and more efficient knock downs.
    While I'm in complete agreement, I'll offer some observations of the Vindicator. It has the same number of moving parts as a smoothbore. In all our testing (and others I've seen) it flows as much or more GPM with less reaction force than the 15/16" tip with a better stream. Of course it is a broken stream nozzle, though they are far larger droplets in size than a fog nozzle. The one advantage over the SB is the use with class A foam as the Vindicator pulls air in from the nozzle cone. But, the rub is in the price. I can buy two Akron shutoffs with 15/16" tips for less money.

    Actually now that I think about it, the other large pro to the Vindicator is that if you crank up the RPM and the PSI the GPM goes up well beyond the fixed tip flow. We maxed out the SB at 200 gpm before it was difficult to control while standing, but could take the Vindicator up to 300 gpm at 210 psi. Seated at max psi we got 300 gpm on the 15/16" and 375 gpm at 300 with the V. While not all too realistic it worked well for comparative purposes. BTW, the Elkhart 100 psi fogs maxed out at 250 gpm and presented difficulty at 200 gpm for the two FFer's while standing.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 11-10-2009 at 03:22 PM. Reason: added info

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. LDH / Attack Hose Narrative
    By hdavid66 in forum Federal FIRE ACT Grants & Funding
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-01-2013, 03:37 PM
  2. Best Hose For Fire Attack!?
    By CVFD9LT in forum Fireground Tactics
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 11-29-2009, 02:12 PM
  3. Attack hose preference
    By VanIsleEVT in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 06-17-2009, 12:59 AM
  4. Best 1.75 attack hose
    By obfpd172 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 04-17-2009, 11:07 PM
  5. 1-3/4 Hose Vs. 1-1/2 For fire attack
    By jpowers in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 04-11-2004, 12:09 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts