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  1. #1
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    Default Safer Grant HELPPPPPPP!!!!!!!

    I have read the P.G. Wow is that not confusing at times, but I think I have a handle on most of it. I do have three questions.

    First under the Recruitment and Retention section. Does a volunteer fire department have to match any funds or provide funding past the orginal four years that the grant may provide funds for?

    Second it mentions that a Project/recruitment Cordinator my be paid. How much are they talking about. We were thinking if they will fund it, having a disignated cordinator paid something like $300.00 a month or so for there time and services. ( since the time needed to adminstrate this project would be time consuming but not a full time job. )

    Third what amount of call volume would a volunteer fire department need, to even think about hiring a full time firefighter.

    Please help with your ideas on this and suggestions.


    Thank you for your help.


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    No one has any ideas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by volfireman034 View Post
    I have read the P.G. Wow is that not confusing at times, but I think I have a handle on most of it. I do have three questions.

    First under the Recruitment and Retention section. Does a volunteer fire department have to match any funds or provide funding past the orginal four years that the grant may provide funds for?

    Second it mentions that a Project/recruitment Cordinator my be paid. How much are they talking about. We were thinking if they will fund it, having a disignated cordinator paid something like $300.00 a month or so for there time and services. ( since the time needed to adminstrate this project would be time consuming but not a full time job. )

    Third what amount of call volume would a volunteer fire department need, to even think about hiring a full time firefighter.

    Please help with your ideas on this and suggestions.


    Thank you for your help.
    1) There is no match for the R&R.

    2) You do not have to provide funds after the POP is completed, but those departments that do and show it will recieve higher consideration than yours.

    3) The amount needed to fund the PC will depend on the complexity of the project and the time needed to run the project.

    4) As for call volume there is no set limit to determine full time staffing; those with larger call volumes will have a better chance of funding than those with low volumes. Other factors will be involved as well like the type of incidents etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    4) As for call volume there is no set limit to determine full time staffing; those with larger call volumes will have a better chance of funding than those with low volumes. Other factors will be involved as well like the type of incidents etc.
    Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems like at one time I saw that if you weren't reaching 4-man company staffing when you hired the personnel, you weren't going score high enough to compete or be able to meet thing NFPA 1710 (?) compliance they want. Of course, that may change this year, or it's possible I misinterpreted something somewhere.

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    Nope, you still have to meet either 1710 or 1720 depending on the department type. So combination and volunteer departments would need to hire enough to meet all 3 levels of 1720 up to their population classification including 4 on initial attack, and so on to the full first alarm complement.

    Same with career though, that doesn't mean 4 per truck it means 4 personnel on an initial attack so it can come from 2 vehicles with 3 per. Just have to be able through your own apparatus or mutual aid to hit 13 FF + 2 for command s the first alarm staffing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems like at one time I saw that if you weren't reaching 4-man company staffing when you hired the personnel, you weren't going score high enough to compete or be able to meet thing NFPA 1710 (?) compliance they want. Of course, that may change this year, or it's possible I misinterpreted something somewhere.
    Since it appears it's a volunteer department it would fall under NFPA 1720. NFPA 1720 requires that sufficient personnel are on scene before commencing a fire attack. In this case a rural area needs 6 FF's to cover 2 in 2 out, IC and pump operator. Nothing in the standard on how they get there (that I saw).

    IMO they could put in for 1 full-time position (barring there are not other issues with staffing) to guarantee the apparatus arrives on scene, while others respond in POV's. By having this position take on other responsibilities like training, fire prevention etc. wiil provide a higher consideration.

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    I have a feeling that there are going to be more and more SAFER apps for R&R.

    That said, I am a bit unclear on a 300.00 a month grant administrator. Over 4 years thats 14,400.00. IMHO, thats going to have to be a remarkably complex grant to justify that - even more so for a rural VFD like yours or mine.

    Going to be tough case to make to justify. I would be worried that including that would risk my entire application.

    That said - the SAFER grant takes a lot of time for me to deal with, compared to other grants. Probably 4 hours a month average. Thats time with the bookeeping, purchasing, dealing with instructors and classes, talking to college instructors, counseling firefighters about grades, etc. Thats with a 26-28 member department who is very active in classes and college through the SAFER program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    Since it appears it's a volunteer department it would fall under NFPA 1720. NFPA 1720 requires that sufficient personnel are on scene before commencing a fire attack. In this case a rural area needs 6 FF's to cover 2 in 2 out, IC and pump operator. Nothing in the standard on how they get there (that I saw).

    IMO they could put in for 1 full-time position (barring there are not other issues with staffing) to guarantee the apparatus arrives on scene, while others respond in POV's. By having this position take on other responsibilities like training, fire prevention etc. wiil provide a higher consideration.
    But year three don't you have to fund 100% in a hiring grant?

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    Correct, hiring new positions is 100% year 3, rehiring layoffs is 2 free years of money but still a narrative requirement on how things will continue to be funded locally to maintain staffing. That's where the major layoff areas won't be helped so much unless there's a turnaround prediction of the local economy in the next 18 months. Layoffs would happen again after the funding dries up and sure won't be getting another SAFER to continue it. Just like unemployment at some point things dry up and have to be handled yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by volfireman034 View Post
    No one has any ideas?
    And you asked for a narrative, but never sent your email addy.

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    Ok I guess I am slow or just had too much on my plate to keep up with the Guidance on this one. It is a 5 year program. But stops in 3 years for some and 2 years for others. We are looking into the hiring side of safer. So my question is: Is there or is there not a "Match" and at what year do you start funding the project on your own? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by CordovaFire View Post
    Ok I guess I am slow or just had too much on my plate to keep up with the Guidance on this one. It is a 5 year program. But stops in 3 years for some and 2 years for others. We are looking into the hiring side of safer. So my question is: Is there or is there not a "Match" and at what year do you start funding the project on your own? Thanks
    The hiring portion of SAFER is 3 years; the first 2 years is funded 100% through SAFER funds (no match) and year 3 the department funds 100% of the cost.

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    Ok, I am going after volunteer retention.. I had ideas, such as fuel cards, gift cards, licence plate reimbursement, and such as incentives to keep people interested. The P.G. states that "give-aways" are not allowed. Do these things count as give-aways?

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    Quote Originally Posted by volff1170 View Post
    Ok, I am going after volunteer retention.. I had ideas, such as fuel cards, gift cards, licence plate reimbursement, and such as incentives to keep people interested. The P.G. states that "give-aways" are not allowed. Do these things count as give-aways?
    I am also looking for SAFER ideas for my volunteer dept. I would like to take advantage of this program if it makes sense, but I do not understand what I should be asking for. We are fully staffed, but keeping the senior members active is very tough. We already have a relief assn to handle length of service awards. Any ideas from the experienced SAFER grant writers of what I could look into?

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    Quote Originally Posted by volff1170 View Post
    Ok, I am going after volunteer retention.. I had ideas, such as fuel cards, gift cards, licence plate reimbursement, and such as incentives to keep people interested. The P.G. states that "give-aways" are not allowed. Do these things count as give-aways?
    Ineligible per the PG:

    “Give-aways” such as pencils, pens, cups, mugs, balloons, etc.
    Basically what the AFG is not allowing is the use of trinkets as incentives. These types of items provide no reward or incentive to FF's.

    I would not consider fuel cards etc. as give-aways. They are used to reimburse FF's for lost wages, incurred costs etc. and provide an incentive to be active.

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    I didn't see anything either way in the P.G. but can you still ask for things like TV's and other things to get for the station to help get firefighters to "hang out " and help the station be manned?

  17. #17
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    Default SAFER Idea

    Not sure if this has been discussed before or if any one has tried this as a project.

    Since uniforms are not an eligible project under SAFER. How many times have volunteer FF's destroyed or ruined their personal clothing at incidents? This can become a costly venture for FF's especially during these economic times.

    The idea is to establish a reimbursement program (gift card to local clothing store perhaps) that FF's can recoup their losses and replace their clothing.

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    I was asked if we could pay for a gym membership or equip a room in our hall with entertainment and exercise equipment. Was not sure if that would work or would be better suited for FP&S

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    The exercise equipment and a full program would be AFG. It could probably be worded into a retention thing because if all of the gyms are out of town then so are your personnel when the call drops, so having a place to exercise in the district, ideally in the station would be a reasonable thing to help fill multiple roles such as keep people in town and in shape.

    Entertainment equipment has been dropped in nearly all apps to put TVs and whatnot in the station to get people to hang out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    The exercise equipment and a full program would be AFG. It could probably be worded into a retention thing because if all of the gyms are out of town then so are your personnel when the call drops, so having a place to exercise in the district, ideally in the station would be a reasonable thing to help fill multiple roles such as keep people in town and in shape.

    Entertainment equipment has been dropped in nearly all apps to put TVs and whatnot in the station to get people to hang out there.
    BC79er - Not sure I follow....are you saying that entertainment equipment for the station IS or IS NOT eligible these days?

    Thanks

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