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    Default MAYDAY Back up air solution.

    This is brand new, so not sure if anybody has one yet, but what do you think of it based on description alone?

    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...lution_device/

    Basically it gives you the ability to attach a heat resistant hose to your mask and put that hose someplace where you may find more air. It's not expensive.

    Part of me thinks, what do you have to lose by trying it in an emergency? But part of me wonders if some people will know they carry it and maybe take chances they normally would'nt?. I could see it being useful in some situations. Maybe you know help is coming and they know where you are, you just need to get another minute. I guess it's better then filter breating?

    I am still on the fence about the "Last Chance" filter system as well:

    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.cfm?pID=6593


    I much prefer never being in the situation where you will need either!

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    Brings back memories of demand valve packs, sticking the hose in your turnouts.

    Bad memories.

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    Okay, I will be brutally blunt. DON"T BUY THEM. They are dangerous and lead to a false sense of security.

    Better to monitor your air supply retreat at the appropriate time so as not to run out of air in the hazard zone. If you think you are in trouble call a MayDay and have RIT bring you air.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Okay, I will be brutally blunt. DON"T BUY THEM. They are dangerous and lead to a false sense of security.

    Better to monitor your air supply retreat at the appropriate time so as not to run out of air in the hazard zone. If you think you are in trouble call a MayDay and have RIT bring you air.
    Bing-freaking-o!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Brings back memories of demand valve packs, sticking the hose in your turnouts.

    Bad memories.
    I was taught the same thing but when you look back what did it filter, nothing, just like today with this piece of junk. You are getting nothing but air between your skin and the moisture barrier, NON FILTERED. Let alone the fact of the mask, is it tested to withstand any heat?to be quite honest I would have expected firestore to have looked at the product application a bit closer before adding dime store items.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LT2387 View Post
    I was taught the same thing but when you look back what did it filter, nothing, just like today with this piece of junk. You are getting nothing but air between your skin and the moisture barrier, NON FILTERED. Let alone the fact of the mask, is it tested to withstand any heat?to be quite honest I would have expected firestore to have looked at the product application a bit closer before adding dime store items.
    They claim it is heat resistant. I would not be thinking of drawing air from my gear, but if you could punch a hole through a wall and put the hose through it?. Technically, it would work. But there are alot of variables. Everything would have to work out perfectly. It does seem a tad "gimmicky"

    I think i would take my chances with the Last Chance filter device. At least their is no question that would be better the filter breathing alone. And your able to move freely. I cannot see any argument for how the filter is worse then nothing at all if you are out of options.

    I completley agree that the best thing is to monitor your air supply and get out before it's an issue. But i think we all know that does not always happen. And to then fall back on the idea that a RIT will find you in time, again, your rolling the dice. History shows neither one of those scenarios always work out.

    I was just curious as to what some opinions were. I myself am not buying either nor am i considering them.

    Speaking of questionable filter devices......

    Any old timers recall the days when Bell Helmets made a helmet known as the FLH-2001? It had a snorkel type device you put in your mouth and their was a filter built into the helmet. That was about 20 years ago. It went nowhere that i recall.

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    WD6956...

    You asked for opinions, you got 4, all opposed to these devices and yet you say you would take your chances on the Last Chance filter. If your mind was made up why ask for opinions?
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    Why don't we just have a hose that runs from the outside to our mask? No need for bottles and other junk. Unlimited work time with my new idea.

    Sarcasm!!!!!
    FF/Paramedic

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    If you can get your guys to accept the fact that the "low air" alarm is actually an "end of service" alarm and that they should be out of the IDLH environment prior to the alarm sounding (like the mfg intends), it goes a long way to preventing the need for any device like that.

    If the alarm goes off, they should be out, well on their way out, or sounding a mayday. If they know how to conserve air after the mayday, they've got an addition 5+ minutes (usually +) for someone to get to them with more air or to get them out.

    If I was going to go with an egress device, it would be the filter. With the velcro and zippers on todays gear, you can't get the hose in your coat. Sticking it in a pocket is asking for it to come out and you'll get a breath full of the crap you're wearing an airpack to avoid.

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    Seems like a gimmick to me too, but on the other note, I find it hard to tell someone to not use something that "might" work. While the hose in the coat never seemed like a good idea, I can attest to dragging the hose on the floor while making my way out after an MSA regulator failure (1987 or 88?). Smoke at helmet level, decent air in the hose on the floor other than the dust and paint chips. I'm not sure the trip out would have been as easy with a hole in my mask.

    Some say these device promote poor habits. Really? In general I think if you're so freaking stupid that you ignore your air intentionally because you're carrying an "escape device" you should get out now, and save your family and the rest of the FD the pain of dealing with your death.

    Of course having RIT, conserving air, monitoring air, etc. etc. is the smart plan, but we always must plan for the plant to fail. This goes in my "personal choice" category. If you think you need it, get it. Just don't use it to push a little further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNFF319 View Post
    Why don't we just have a hose that runs from the outside to our mask? No need for bottles and other junk. Unlimited work time with my new idea.

    Sarcasm!!!!!
    They have them now TNFF. Called SABA for supplied air breathing apparatus. These are used a lot in industrial and oilfield applications. The hose runs from a cascade system to the individual(s). This is used a lot in confined space entry work as well as IDLH atmospheres. They have the option of coming with a bail out bottle containing anywhere fro 5 to 15 minutes of air. If there is a compromise on the supplied airline, the person can open up the cylinder, unhook from his line and evacuate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    WD6956...

    You asked for opinions, you got 4, all opposed to these devices and yet you say you would take your chances on the Last Chance filter. If your mind was made up why ask for opinions?
    I was asking for opinions in general. Basically wanting to know what the general consenus is on these things. I was not asking for opinions as to what i should buy. Sorry i was not more clean from the start. And what i meant by i would take my chances with the Last Chance device, i meant IF i was going to buy one of these two, that is the one i would buy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    If you can get your guys to accept the fact that the "low air" alarm is actually an "end of service" alarm and that they should be out of the IDLH environment prior to the alarm sounding (like the mfg intends), it goes a long way to preventing the need for any device like that.

    If the alarm goes off, they should be out, well on their way out, or sounding a mayday. If they know how to conserve air after the mayday, they've got an addition 5+ minutes (usually +) for someone to get to them with more air or to get them out.
    The book, The Rule of Air Management covers those very ideas. Great book. Everyone should read it.

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    As I said, they are bad memories. Right up there with not using a mask but lighting a cigarette - that filters the smoke for ya right?

    I am totally opposed to either device. Do your job correctly, you should not need these items, even if they did work.

    Total catastrophic failure? By the time you deploy these items normally you can be to a safe place, or buddy breathing.

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    Junk. I'm shocked that they even offer them for sale.

    Lawyers everywhere just started planning the purchase of boats and vacation homes.

    .
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    I would rather have the filter unit than sticking a hose in the coat. I can see a use for them though. Your in and suffer a pack failure (regulator, valve or whatever) You call for a MAYDAY but how long is it going to take for them to get to you? In that case I would rather use a filter and be able to breath than hold my breath. Oh and buddy breathing is fine IF your packs are set up for it.
    Many of ours are not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Brings back memories of demand valve packs, sticking the hose in your turnouts.

    Bad memories.
    Oh boy, no kidding. Putting the "elephant trunk" inside your coat only prevents you from sucking sand and chunks up off the floor. Bad memories of a bad idea. Only had to do it once and never want to do it again.


    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Okay, I will be brutally blunt. DON"T BUY THEM. They are dangerous and lead to a false sense of security.

    Better to monitor your air supply retreat at the appropriate time so as not to run out of air in the hazard zone. If you think you are in trouble call a MayDay and have RIT bring you air.

    This is the best response. I understand that malfunctions happen and you gotta do what you gotta do to survive but this is the best answer. Work smarter now a days!
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    I agree with Fyred.....besides, if you are oriented enough to get a hole in the wall, you should be able to get out.
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    Just another useless gadget. Hence the reason we have RIT bags and RIT teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Just another useless gadget. Hence the reason we have RIT bags and RIT teams.

    I agree on everything you are saying.

    But.....

    What would you do in a situation that was not textbook?. Sure in a perfect world, we withdraw with plenty of air to spare, air packs never malfunction OR, if they do, someone is right next to you with plenty of air and both packs have operable buddy breathers built in and lastly, if we get lost, an RIT knows exactly where we are and can get to us without delay, give us air and help us out.

    All of the above is what we all hope for. But i for one am not betting my life on all of the above always happening. Some situations are so far out of hand, no "gadget" would save your life and an RIT will not find you. But i wonder if one of these devices could be the difference between life and death. I would like to see real world testing by the NFPA or some other reputable testing facility to see what some of these devices could do to maybe save lives.

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    Lightbulb Not as cut and dry as some think

    I doubt we'll ever see any "approved" equipment for this application. This is a last ditch-everything else has failed-buy me a few more minutes- tool. While it should be completely unnecessary given air management, RIT, etc. we cannot discount the fact that we're still losing brothers and sisters in fires and trapped and running out of air is still a problem. Do some of you think everyone who's died in this manner has been stupid and they and their FD have failed to operate safely? Or could it be that sometime we cannot control every minute detail of an emergency? Which is why I noted that use of these devices should be up to the individual. Screw department policy or NIOSH. If the device works you can thumb your nose and take the rip. If it fails, unless you were a total idiot it will not have contributed to you death, merely prolonged the inevitable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    I agree on everything you are saying.

    But.....

    What would you do in a situation that was not textbook?. Sure in a perfect world, we withdraw with plenty of air to spare, air packs never malfunction OR, if they do, someone is right next to you with plenty of air and both packs have operable buddy breathers built in and lastly, if we get lost, an RIT knows exactly where we are and can get to us without delay, give us air and help us out.

    All of the above is what we all hope for. But i for one am not betting my life on all of the above always happening. Some situations are so far out of hand, no "gadget" would save your life and an RIT will not find you. But i wonder if one of these devices could be the difference between life and death. I would like to see real world testing by the NFPA or some other reputable testing facility to see what some of these devices could do to maybe save lives.
    So, you really aren't on the fence on this at all. Sounds like you have bought into it.

    Let me ask you this... how much safe air is there in that small gap between your turnouts and your skin? Seriously... 1... 2 breaths? Then you get the dangerous gasses and products of combustion.

    Last ditch effort or not, it won't work. Your energy and remaining breaths would be better spent trying to get out of the situation.

    Not fumbling to attach this device.

    .
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    Honest question...

    For those that say nothing is better than something, have any of you been in a "no air" situation with the current style of mask mounted regulators?

    Yes, I've had the snorkle trunk/long hose and sucked crap off the floor. But I'm talking about the new masks without the long hoses. Now, you can pull your hood over the mask opening and suck floor while trying to move quickly....or, you can snap a filter in place, and actually move quickly.


    Just something to think about.

    On a side note...I recommend everyone to try/practice this once in a while. Don't wait for an emergency to happen to be ready for it. Either way you do it.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    So, you really aren't on the fence on this at all. Sounds like you have bought into it.
    I'm not on the fence. When i posted the question and before anybody answered i had my own opinions on these devices. And my opinion has not changed much. I still have no plans to buy either.

    My opinon on the Mayday unit? It would have a very limited use. I would not be thinking about using it by sticking it in my turnout. But if i was in a masonry type structure and trapped and their was clealry no way to punch a hole through a wall, a smal diamater tube like this device has could open up alot more options. An existing hole for pipes and conduits could work. Again, it might work. Would it be worth carrying for that minute chance? No. I do think it is priced well. At least if you did buy it and it turned out to be worthless, your not shelling out big $$. And something tells me that is why it's priced so low!

    The Last Chance device works on proven technology. Filters that will get rid of a good deal of toxic smoke byproducts have been around for years and work quite well. Escape hoods use similar filters. The device in question in my opinion is a smart idea. As i mentioned above in another post, it's still a WAY better alternative then filter breathing through your hood or carpet. And it is hands free. You attach it to your mask and then your hands are free to try like hell to get out of the situation you are in. The name is appropriate. Last Chance. What do you have to lose? You do not where you are, nor does the RIT, your out of air. What are your choices? Give up? Filter breathe which depending on how bad conditions are, could buy you seconds to minutes tops. These filters could save lives if they work as well as the manufacturer says. Ill say it again, you cannot tell me that a filter is worse then nothing at all. My issue with it more then anything is the bulk. It's nice they give you a Nomex pouch with it, but where do you put it? It's like having a peanut butter jar in a pouch on your gear. I would not want to have that attached to my gear. I guess the best bet is on the SCBA waist belt. The price is high, but if it works, it's worth it. They do make training filters as well.

    Based on many of the comments in here, i have thought more about the items in question and the whole situation as to when and why you would use one. I was surprised at how many people in here seem to think that despite all the training and planning that things cannot still go wrong. If your reason for not buying one of the two devices is you feel they will not work, fine. But if you don't want one because you are 100% certain that you will never be trapped without air, well, good luck!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Let me ask you this... how much safe air is there in that small gap between your turnouts and your skin? Seriously... 1... 2 breaths? Then you get the dangerous gasses and products of combustion.
    Last ditch effort or not, it won't work. Your energy and remaining breaths would be better spent trying to get out of the situation.

    Not fumbling to attach this device.[/QUOTE]

    I agree. With the Mayday unit, I would not even consider the option of breathing through your gear. And your right, that time would be batter spent holding your breath and running like hell!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Just another useless gadget. Hence the reason we have RIT bags and RIT teams.
    Funny, coming from someone who spent 15 pages defending the FIT-5.
    You are nothing but an annoying troll.
    Go away.

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