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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic515 View Post
    If you truly want the best qualified for the job, then you'll have to throw out residency, .
    Agreed. That is a stupid requirement. But at the same time, i understand the reason. Of course you want to give jobs to people in the very city you are hiring for and of course locals more then likley will already know a good deal of the area and are probably close to the job. That all sounds great ON PAPER. But i think most of us know that most people easily fake this requirement and even if they do live their, the second they get hired, they are GONE!. I know about 20 guys on the NYPD, not a single one lives in NYC. The three FDNY people i know well all live far outside NYC. Again, i understand the requirement, but it's pointless. It's too easy to fake and if your allowed to move as soon as you get hired, what is the point?


    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic515 View Post
    military, .
    It's not simply military service that gets you points. It's veteran status. And that is a federal law and one i have no issue with and neither should anybody else. Any person who fought for the very freedom that makes this country so great deserves extra credit. No problem here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic515 View Post
    and legacy points too. .
    CalmB4Storm summed it up perfectly. And quite frankly, i would have no issue at all with a department who gives a family member of an LODD member a line jump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    Agreed. That is a stupid requirement. But at the same time, i understand the reason. Of course you want to give jobs to people in the very city you are hiring for and of course locals more then likley will already know a good deal of the area and are probably close to the job. That all sounds great ON PAPER. But i think most of us know that most people easily fake this requirement and even if they do live their, the second they get hired, they are GONE!. I know about 20 guys on the NYPD, not a single one lives in NYC. The three FDNY people i know well all live far outside NYC. Again, i understand the requirement, but it's pointless. It's too easy to fake and if your allowed to move as soon as you get hired, what is the point?
    Agreed. Everybody and their brother fakes a NYC address in order to get those 5 points. It's not very honest to say the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    It's not simply military service that gets you points. It's veteran status. And that is a federal law and one i have no issue with and neither should anybody else. Any person who fought for the very freedom that makes this country so great deserves extra credit. No problem here.
    No problem here. I have great respect for anybody who served this great country. But I can still argue that veteran status does not make you better qualified for the job. Remember, we're talking the Merit System. The most qualified is supposed to get the job, but applicants with veterans status jump applicants on the list that scored better. What Merit System?

    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    CalmB4Storm summed it up perfectly. And quite frankly, i would have no issue at all with a department who gives a family member of an LODD member a line jump.
    See above....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic515 View Post
    No problem here. I have great respect for anybody who served this great country. But I can still argue that veteran status does not make you better qualified for the job. Remember, we're talking the Merit System. The most qualified is supposed to get the job, but applicants with veterans status jump applicants on the list that scored better. What Merit System?



    See above....

    I understand the merit system just fine. But the above are two things that i quite frankly have no issue with skirting that system. Their are exception to all rules for certain situation that warrant it.

    Should the best qualified person get the job under normal circumstances? Absolutley. BUT, once again, if someone was willing to volunteer to lay their life on the line to fight for this country, they deserve extra credit. And anbody who's family member died in the line of duty in that department deserves that as well. Neither of these examples to me are a double standard. These are two special circumstance issues that most people would not have any issue with.

    I do not think choosing to be an EMT should be held in the same reagard as joining the ARMY and fighting in a war.

    We obviously have a difference in opinion and that's fine. But i understand what you are saying. But again, the two issues above are special circumstances. Certain situations and deeds require a different level of respect. Even when a hiring system is supposed to be on a merit system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kolat06 View Post
    If you can pass your emt-b and paramedic and be nationally registered you can't be that dumb.
    LOL. Funniest thing I've head all week.


    Especially since paramedic programs are usually an associates.
    Incorrect. Most are 9-month mom and pop jobs. Lots of 6 month medic mills too (gotta get that badge, y'know). Associate programs are making headway, but not fast enough.

    I still think that someone that has put in the time on EMS should get some sort of plus
    Stop *****ting on my profession. EMS isn't something you "put in the time" for; a purgatory you languish in until you can go do something else. It's @$$hats like you that are the reason American EMS is light years behind the rest of the 1st World.
    Last edited by emt161; 11-21-2009 at 11:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    LOL. Funniest thing I've head all week.




    Incorrect. Most are 9-month mom and pop jobs. Lots of 6 month medic mills too (gotta get that badge, y'know). Associate programs are making headway, but not fast enough.



    Stop *****ting on my profession. EMS isn't something you "put in the time" for; a purgatory you languish in until you can go do something else. It's @$$hats like you that are the reason American EMS is light years behind the rest of the 1st World.
    So move to Canada, Australia, or NZ then. The guys on emtlife and emtcity can tell you where to apply.

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    Okay, when I came on here I was trying to be respectful and take to heart the things that everyone had to say, but it's really starting to seem like everyone on this forum is out to prove something and like you all just live to moan and complain about how everything sucks and how wrong everything in world is. No matter what approach I consider the only thing I hear is 'screw you that's not the right way to do it!'

    So I'll try one more time to be as open as I can be and just assume that I have been misunderstanding your intentions. I'll completely restate my question so that hopefully nobody will feel like I'm trying to take advantage of any system or make any military work for me or be personally responsible for the reason that the American EMS system is light years behind the rest of world. None of those things were ever my intention, I was simply going off of the knowledge available to me at the time.

    I want to be a firefighter for the the city of New York more than anything else in the world. I am eighteen years old. I need to have some sort of job between now and the tests, and if that job could help me gain experience - strictly personal experience, regardless of whether it would result in me being overqualified or underqualified or whatever - a job that could help me be the best possible candidate I can be when the test date does roll around, then that would be fantastic. I would honestly appreciate any of the advice you guys could give me because I am assuming that most of you have a much more complete understanding of the system as a whole than I do, and since I have never worked as a firefighter before, I want to learn from you. If I have caused any offfense in the past I can assure you that I didn't mean to, and it was strictly a result of my ignorance of what you guys think of the various approaches into this job. That is why I am here. To prevent this from happening once I get into the department. To learn from you. Please teach me.

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    If you want to try EMS, then do it. If you think it sucks and you hate it, then bail.

    Youll find yourself at a buffet table of different opportunities: learning your way around an unfamiliar outer borough, eating at weird restaurants youd have otherwise never heard of, socializing with retards, catering to apparently full grown adults acting like 5 year olds, falling asleep with lots of dorito crumbs on your chest, winning a "You cant eat that in one bite" bet... all these experiences are there for the taking, or at least the chance to witness a coworker taking advantage of said opportunities.

    Its not a bad gig. The pay sucks, but it has its perks. Youre 18. Time's on your side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    LOL. Funniest thing I've head all week.




    Incorrect. Most are 9-month mom and pop jobs. Lots of 6 month medic mills too (gotta get that badge, y'know). Associate programs are making headway, but not fast enough.



    Stop *****ting on my profession. EMS isn't something you "put in the time" for; a purgatory you languish in until you can go do something else. It's @$$hats like you that are the reason American EMS is light years behind the rest of the 1st World.
    all the schools in my area have a diploma or associates program. thanks for burning the one guy that was trying to stand up for your profession. I guess you are evidence that contradicts my above quote

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    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    Stop *****ting on my profession. EMS isn't something you "put in the time" for; a purgatory you languish in until you can go do something else. It's @$$hats like you that are the reason American EMS is light years behind the rest of the 1st World.
    it's asshats like that make ems look bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerRichardson View Post
    Okay, when I came on here I was trying to be respectful and take to heart the things that everyone had to say, but it's really starting to seem like everyone on this forum is out to prove something and like you all just live to moan and complain about how everything sucks and how wrong everything in world is. No matter what approach I consider the only thing I hear is 'screw you that's not the right way to do it!'

    So I'll try one more time to be as open as I can be and just assume that I have been misunderstanding your intentions. I'll completely restate my question so that hopefully nobody will feel like I'm trying to take advantage of any system or make any military work for me or be personally responsible for the reason that the American EMS system is light years behind the rest of world. None of those things were ever my intention, I was simply going off of the knowledge available to me at the time.

    I want to be a firefighter for the the city of New York more than anything else in the world. I am eighteen years old. I need to have some sort of job between now and the tests, and if that job could help me gain experience - strictly personal experience, regardless of whether it would result in me being overqualified or underqualified or whatever - a job that could help me be the best possible candidate I can be when the test date does roll around, then that would be fantastic. I would honestly appreciate any of the advice you guys could give me because I am assuming that most of you have a much more complete understanding of the system as a whole than I do, and since I have never worked as a firefighter before, I want to learn from you. If I have caused any offfense in the past I can assure you that I didn't mean to, and it was strictly a result of my ignorance of what you guys think of the various approaches into this job. That is why I am here. To prevent this from happening once I get into the department. To learn from you. Please teach me.
    Your problem is you dont like the answers the members gave you. There is no reason to ask again you WON'T change our minds how we feel. How many more times is this question going to need to be answered. Take what advice you think is the correct advice.... The advice from the members of the job or the advice from NON members of the job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    We obviously have a difference in opinion and that's fine. But i understand what you are saying.
    No, I think we're pretty much on the same page. I think the system is broken and needs fixed. I was mainly addressing the guys that come on here and argue that the EMS promotion isn't fair on grounds of the Merit System....yet the same guys have no problem with points for residency, veterans status, or legacy status. Either it's a strictly merit based system or it isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerRichardson View Post
    Okay, when I came on here I was trying to be respectful and take to heart the things that everyone had to say, but it's really starting to seem like everyone on this forum is out to prove something and like you all just live to moan and complain about how everything sucks and how wrong everything in world is. No matter what approach I consider the only thing I hear is 'screw you that's not the right way to do it!'

    So I'll try one more time to be as open as I can be and just assume that I have been misunderstanding your intentions. I'll completely restate my question so that hopefully nobody will feel like I'm trying to take advantage of any system or make any military work for me or be personally responsible for the reason that the American EMS system is light years behind the rest of world. None of those things were ever my intention, I was simply going off of the knowledge available to me at the time.

    I want to be a firefighter for the the city of New York more than anything else in the world. I am eighteen years old. I need to have some sort of job between now and the tests, and if that job could help me gain experience - strictly personal experience, regardless of whether it would result in me being overqualified or underqualified or whatever - a job that could help me be the best possible candidate I can be when the test date does roll around, then that would be fantastic. I would honestly appreciate any of the advice you guys could give me because I am assuming that most of you have a much more complete understanding of the system as a whole than I do, and since I have never worked as a firefighter before, I want to learn from you. If I have caused any offfense in the past I can assure you that I didn't mean to, and it was strictly a result of my ignorance of what you guys think of the various approaches into this job. That is why I am here. To prevent this from happening once I get into the department. To learn from you. Please teach me.
    Good. I wanted to see if I was in the same boat as my brothers like kingofdahill. Rephrasing and re-asking the questions will not change our opinions.

    Kid, my answer remains the same. See my previous response on the military issue.

    The "Promotional" is exactly what it is; a backdoor. If one comes from EMS, they are labelled from day one to the end of the academy. Go EMS. Stay EMS. If you want to go Fire, take the "Open Competitive".

    In this job, no one is entitled or owed anything. Everything is earned.
    This job is bigger than you.

    Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerRichardson View Post
    Okay, when I came on here I was trying to be respectful and take to heart the things that everyone had to say, but it's really starting to seem like everyone on this forum is out to prove something and like you all just live to moan and complain about how everything sucks and how wrong everything in world is. No matter what approach I consider the only thing I hear is 'screw you that's not the right way to do it!'

    So I'll try one more time to be as open as I can be and just assume that I have been misunderstanding your intentions. I'll completely restate my question so that hopefully nobody will feel like I'm trying to take advantage of any system or make any military work for me or be personally responsible for the reason that the American EMS system is light years behind the rest of world. None of those things were ever my intention, I was simply going off of the knowledge available to me at the time.

    I want to be a firefighter for the the city of New York more than anything else in the world. I am eighteen years old. I need to have some sort of job between now and the tests, and if that job could help me gain experience - strictly personal experience, regardless of whether it would result in me being overqualified or underqualified or whatever - a job that could help me be the best possible candidate I can be when the test date does roll around, then that would be fantastic. I would honestly appreciate any of the advice you guys could give me because I am assuming that most of you have a much more complete understanding of the system as a whole than I do, and since I have never worked as a firefighter before, I want to learn from you. If I have caused any offfense in the past I can assure you that I didn't mean to, and it was strictly a result of my ignorance of what you guys think of the various approaches into this job. That is why I am here. To prevent this from happening once I get into the department. To learn from you. Please teach me.
    Tyler, unfortunately, no matter how you explain it, or re-explain it, you're not going to make headway with people who determined from the very first second you posted, that you were a dirty, backdoor using, cheater trying to skirt the system.

    I personally dont see it that way, but obviously I may be in the minority. I guess the real question is how many of these newly made enemies of yours are guys with FDNY, or guys who couldnt/didnt pass the "open competitive" exam.

    It sounds to me that they may have a vested interest in keeping a young, ambitious man from getting the advantage that could put him in the spot that they so badly want.

    Do what you gotta do, they would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PD2FD View Post
    Do what you gotta do, they would.
    ?????

    I did what I had to do:
    Took the Open Competitive and waited.
    100%/100%
    I also did not use my Veteran's points because I was from out of state and didn't try to cheat the system by saying I wasn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PD2FD View Post
    Tyler, unfortunately, no matter how you explain it, or re-explain it, you're not going to make headway with people who determined from the very first second you posted, that you were a dirty, backdoor using, cheater trying to skirt the system.

    I personally dont see it that way, but obviously I may be in the minority. I guess the real question is how many of these newly made enemies of yours are guys with FDNY, or guys who couldnt/didnt pass the "open competitive" exam.

    It sounds to me that they may have a vested interest in keeping a young, ambitious man from getting the advantage that could put him in the spot that they so badly want.

    Do what you gotta do, they would.
    How old are you? This isnt some anonymous board here, many of us who are on the job actually know each other, so take your little detective skills and put them to good use finding a clue.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PD2FD View Post

    I guess the real question is how many of these newly made enemies of yours are guys with FDNY, or guys who couldnt/didnt pass the "open competitive" exam.

    It sounds to me that they may have a vested interest in keeping a young, ambitious man from getting the advantage that could put him in the spot that they so badly want.
    Yup, ya got me.

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    There's a popular saying that pretty much sums it all up:

    "Don't hate the player, hate the game."

    Do not fault the successful participant in a flawed system; try instead to discern and rebuke that aspect of its organization which allows or encourages the behavior that has provoked your displeasure.

    Everyone has an equal opportunity to further their education and background in public safety & service by obtaining an EMT and/or Paramedic license and use the "back door" method by putting time in on the ambulance, thus it's not really cheating the system. People simply aren't taking advantage of the opportunities for which they are presented. Their poor choices = your gain.
    Last edited by Kaleb1983; 11-28-2009 at 04:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleb1983 View Post
    There's a popular saying that pretty much sums it all up:

    "Don't hate the player, hate the game."

    Do not fault the successful participant in a flawed system; try instead to discern and rebuke that aspect of its organization which allows or encourages the behavior that has provoked your displeasure.

    Everyone has an equal opportunity to further their education and background in public safety & service by obtaining an EMT and/or Paramedic license and use the "back door" method by putting time in on the ambulance, thus it's not really cheating the system. People simply aren't taking advantage of the opportunities for which they are presented. Their poor choices = your gain.
    I think this saying says it better... "NO players, NO game" it's p*ss poor puke attitudes like yours that bring the lazy piece of sh*t attitudes with them to the firehouse. IGM jerkoffs who claim to be your "brother" that got your back when all they got in mind is their own self interest. You can't even come onto the dept. the honest way what makes you think we can trust you when needed. Emt/Paramedic don't mean sh*t here. Your right it's not "cheating" the system, honest candidates being passed over for SOME slacking ems promotional to slither through is 110% f*cking the system. When some of you jerkoffs grow some hair on your nuts and mature a bit maybe you'll realize this and guys won't have to come on this forum asking how the "game" is played.
    Last edited by kingofdahill; 11-28-2009 at 08:21 AM.

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    Dont hold back, tell 'em how you really feel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingofdahill View Post
    I think this saying says it better... "NO players, NO game" it's p*ss poor puke attitudes like yours that bring the lazy piece of sh*t attitudes with them to the firehouse. IGM jerkoffs who claim to be your "brother" that got your back when all they got in mind is their own self interest. You can't even come onto the dept. the honest way what makes you think we can trust you when needed. Emt/Paramedic don't mean sh*t here. Your right it's not "cheating" the system, honest candidates being passed over for SOME slacking ems promotional to slither through is 110% f*cking the system. When some of you jerkoffs grow some hair on your nuts and mature a bit maybe you'll realize this and guys won't have to come on this forum asking how the "game" is played.

    Hahahahahaha...You represent the department so well when you post on these public forums. I'm sure FDNY would be proud to know that this is how their members talk to the public. Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

    If you don't like the way things are done, maybe you should contact your union representative and fire chief and express your concern. As a matter of fact, word it just like you do when you post on here. I'm sure they would be very responsive -- that or you will be looking for a new job. Which you should be anyway if you think this is acceptable wording for representing yourself and the department.

    It's obvious that the department supports the transfer from EMS to Fire OR IT WOULDN'T BE AN OPTION. This isn't a loophole where people sneak through, FDNY actively encourages it.

    From the FDNY EMS website:

    "Promotion to firefighter

    FDNY members who are working as permanent civil service paramedics and EMTs have the opportunity to file the promotion to firefighter examination during the filing period. Those who pass both the written and physical portions of the exam, as well as the medical and psychological assessments, will be placed on a promotion list.

    Members on the promotion to firefighter list are called before the general open-competitive list.

    Qualification requirements may be found in the Notice of Examination and on the DCAS Web site under Archives-Open Competitive."



    Quit being such a drama queen and wasting all that energy by posting about how mad you are at the system and put that energy to good use and change the system if you don't like it. The change ain't gonna come from firehouse forums. People are going to continue to take advantage of opportunities that are presented to them, whether you support it or not.
    Last edited by Kaleb1983; 11-28-2009 at 04:04 PM.

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    I have heard before that if a guy promotes to Firefighter from being an EMT/Medic for FDNY, gets assigned to a station, and keeps his mouth shut and does what he is told just like every other Probie, he will be fine. Is this true? Granted the guys in the firehouse know he promoted from EMS and will give him some crap every now and then but they don't rip on him all shift, every shift. Just wondering if this is correct or if anyones heard anything about this.

    Thank you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleb1983 View Post
    Hahahahahaha...You represent the department so well when you post on these public forums. I'm sure FDNY would be proud to know that this is how their members talk to the public. Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

    If you don't like the way things are done, maybe you should contact your union representative and fire chief and express your concern. As a matter of fact, word it just like you do when you post on here. I'm sure they would be very responsive -- that or you will be looking for a new job. Which you should be anyway if you think this is acceptable wording for representing yourself and the department.

    It's obvious that the department supports the transfer from EMS to Fire OR IT WOULDN'T BE AN OPTION. This isn't a loophole where people sneak through, FDNY actively encourages it.

    From the FDNY EMS website:

    "Promotion to firefighter

    FDNY members who are working as permanent civil service paramedics and EMTs have the opportunity to file the promotion to firefighter examination during the filing period. Those who pass both the written and physical portions of the exam, as well as the medical and psychological assessments, will be placed on a promotion list.

    Members on the promotion to firefighter list are called before the general open-competitive list.

    Qualification requirements may be found in the Notice of Examination and on the DCAS Web site under Archives-Open Competitive."



    Quit being such a drama queen and wasting all that energy by posting about how mad you are at the system and put that energy to good use and change the system if you don't like it. The change ain't gonna come from firehouse forums. People are going to continue to take advantage of opportunities that are presented to them, whether you support it or not.

    lol....you are something special.
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 11-28-2009 at 06:54 PM.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFD17 View Post
    I have heard before that if a guy promotes to Firefighter from being an EMT/Medic for FDNY, gets assigned to a station, and keeps his mouth shut and does what he is told just like every other Probie, he will be fine. Is this true? Granted the guys in the firehouse know he promoted from EMS and will give him some crap every now and then but they don't rip on him all shift, every shift. Just wondering if this is correct or if anyones heard anything about this.

    Thank you
    You already asked that....

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    Quote Originally Posted by FLA1786 View Post
    You already asked that....
    Just looking for some new answers/opinions.

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    I continue to find it amazing that the FDNY continue to view the EMS side of it's operations as nothing but a drain on resources and a hole for members seemingly not worthy of wearing the FDNY uniform.

    FDNY is fire and EMS. Every other urban FD views it's EMS operations and EMS personnel as equally important as it's suppression personnel. In fact, some urban departments make little or no separations between them.

    I just simply do not understand it. It makes no sense whatsoever.

    The fact is crossing over from the EMS to the fire side should be viewed as completely legitimate. It is just about everywhere else.

    I simply do not get it.

    It's the same organization.

    Or at least that is what you would think given that it says "FDNY" on the side of both the ladders and the ambos.

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