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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    neither. .



    but Im still not "assuming" anything.....someone who fails 2 events on a physical and almost fails a 4th grade written exam doesnt deserve to be checking parking meters, let alone being a fireman.
    You're right, neither. Oh and I never accused you of assuming anything. It was Bones that asked the OP why he should get the job over someone who deserved it more. Hence, he was making the assumption that somebody deserved the job more.


  2. #42
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    I have to say that for an 18 year old kid, the OP writes well, and is able to articulate his points better than many older, more experienced posters.

    With that said, I dont understand the folks who are bashing the kid for wanting to put time in as a medic enroute to his goal of working for FDNY. From what I gather, many of you feel that someone taking a civil service test is somehow superior and more job worthy than someone putting in time working for the city in an indisputably important position. Whether you like paramedics or not, a person working as one, especially in a busy system, tends to develop far more people skills, coping abilities, team work skills, the ability to work under pressure, and countless other qualities, than those developed by someone who simply took a generic civil service test.

    I fail to see how working hard, learning alot, contributing to the city, and its community is less in terms of being "deserving" of an FDNY job, than taking a test.

    If anything, guys who are already on FDNY should be happy that paramedics who promote to FF, worked the same streets, have real world work experience, and obviously graduated from the same fire academy as the guys who were able to pass an exam to get hired.

    JMHO

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Certs? REALLY? It only takes a 5 minute look at Scarecrow and LAfire to understand why certs mean jack sh*t....man you guys are really digging lol.....and considering its obvious none of you even understand why the backdoor even exists, it makes it even more hysterical that you are defending it. The back door wasnt created so people had a foot into the dept, as much as you guys want to hope.
    Seriously, why does the backdoor option exist? It's not like the FDNY has a shortage of qualified applicants. Quite the opposite. I would think that FDNY EMS would want to plug that hole to reduce attrition, anyway. Was it a demographic/EEO thing?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    Yes, but if a departments guidelines are that everyone has to have the training anyhow and includes it in thier academy, you can see why to some departments do not really care about those certs.
    It's not the certs that are valuable. It's the experience. EMS and Fire are both hands on learning. There are many things you can learn in the classroom, but nothing replaces experience. This is where having an EMS background would benefit someone "promoting" to the FDNY.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic515 View Post
    That's a pretty generalized statement. Care to site any of these said "mistakes"?
    That's different thread, so I'd rather not.

  6. #46
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    From what I'm gathering, guys dislike the FF promotion because they see it as the easy road, where everybody else took the hard road. I can certainly understand why it's so controversial. However, I also understand why some would find this option appealing. Every time the FDNY tests they get tens of thousands of applicants and the process is so competitive that it's amost impossible to make yourself stand out among so many thousands of others, especially in a department that does not value EMS certs nearly as much as other departments. I personally feel that when a person gets hired on to the FDNY, beating out thousands of other applicants, it has as much to do with luck as it does qualification, if not more so. Maybe the guy who takes the promotional exam really wants to be a firefighter, and is as qualified as the guy who got hired on the civil service test, but just wasn't as lucky. Maybe he sees this as nothing more than a different option. Maybe he pulled his weight in the Academy. Just because you got hired from the Civil Service test doesn't automatically mean you'll smoke the academy, just like it doesn't mean the guy who took the promotional is gonna suck. It's just a different way of getting there. As it's said in the fire service, there is always more than one way of doing something and this is no exception. Now I don't know the ins and outs of this promotional exam but when all is said and done, everybody has to pass the same academy and pull their weight on the street because that's where it counts. Just my opinion.
    Last edited by merchan5967; 11-21-2009 at 02:27 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic515 View Post
    If you truly want the best qualified for the job, then you'll have to throw out residency, military, and legacy points too. Why does one have an advantage for simply living in the city? They are likewise jumping people on the list that scored better. Yet, nobody seems to be too upset about these free points.

    Residency credit is garbage and falsified by over half the people who claim it.

    Most Vets don't use their points up-front and hang on to them until a promotional exam.

    As for legacy credit, well, if you want to call them "free points" I'm sure you could find more than a few guys who would gladly give them back if they got their fathers back in return.

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic515 View Post
    Are you suggesting that a person can't do both well?
    Im not "suggesting" anything. You cant do both, at all. Not working for NYC.

    If you were interested in holding a second job, with a hospital providing a subsidy EMS service to the city's 911 system, then go for it; youve found your sidejob.

    Quote Originally Posted by edpmedic View Post
    Seriously, why does the backdoor option exist? It's not like the FDNY has a shortage of qualified applicants. Quite the opposite. I would think that FDNY EMS would want to plug that hole to reduce attrition, anyway. Was it a demographic/EEO thing?
    The EMS union does want that hole plugged. Its contributes to a transient workforce that really screws the people trying to make a career out of it.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic515 View Post
    You're right, neither. Oh and I never accused you of assuming anything. It was Bones that asked the OP why he should get the job over someone who deserved it more. Hence, he was making the assumption that somebody deserved the job more.
    No. I said no one deserves a shorter way in. Everyone should take the same steps.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic515 View Post
    If you truly want the best qualified for the job, then you'll have to throw out residency, .
    Agreed. That is a stupid requirement. But at the same time, i understand the reason. Of course you want to give jobs to people in the very city you are hiring for and of course locals more then likley will already know a good deal of the area and are probably close to the job. That all sounds great ON PAPER. But i think most of us know that most people easily fake this requirement and even if they do live their, the second they get hired, they are GONE!. I know about 20 guys on the NYPD, not a single one lives in NYC. The three FDNY people i know well all live far outside NYC. Again, i understand the requirement, but it's pointless. It's too easy to fake and if your allowed to move as soon as you get hired, what is the point?


    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic515 View Post
    military, .
    It's not simply military service that gets you points. It's veteran status. And that is a federal law and one i have no issue with and neither should anybody else. Any person who fought for the very freedom that makes this country so great deserves extra credit. No problem here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic515 View Post
    and legacy points too. .
    CalmB4Storm summed it up perfectly. And quite frankly, i would have no issue at all with a department who gives a family member of an LODD member a line jump.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    Agreed. That is a stupid requirement. But at the same time, i understand the reason. Of course you want to give jobs to people in the very city you are hiring for and of course locals more then likley will already know a good deal of the area and are probably close to the job. That all sounds great ON PAPER. But i think most of us know that most people easily fake this requirement and even if they do live their, the second they get hired, they are GONE!. I know about 20 guys on the NYPD, not a single one lives in NYC. The three FDNY people i know well all live far outside NYC. Again, i understand the requirement, but it's pointless. It's too easy to fake and if your allowed to move as soon as you get hired, what is the point?
    Agreed. Everybody and their brother fakes a NYC address in order to get those 5 points. It's not very honest to say the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    It's not simply military service that gets you points. It's veteran status. And that is a federal law and one i have no issue with and neither should anybody else. Any person who fought for the very freedom that makes this country so great deserves extra credit. No problem here.
    No problem here. I have great respect for anybody who served this great country. But I can still argue that veteran status does not make you better qualified for the job. Remember, we're talking the Merit System. The most qualified is supposed to get the job, but applicants with veterans status jump applicants on the list that scored better. What Merit System?

    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    CalmB4Storm summed it up perfectly. And quite frankly, i would have no issue at all with a department who gives a family member of an LODD member a line jump.
    See above....

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic515 View Post
    No problem here. I have great respect for anybody who served this great country. But I can still argue that veteran status does not make you better qualified for the job. Remember, we're talking the Merit System. The most qualified is supposed to get the job, but applicants with veterans status jump applicants on the list that scored better. What Merit System?



    See above....

    I understand the merit system just fine. But the above are two things that i quite frankly have no issue with skirting that system. Their are exception to all rules for certain situation that warrant it.

    Should the best qualified person get the job under normal circumstances? Absolutley. BUT, once again, if someone was willing to volunteer to lay their life on the line to fight for this country, they deserve extra credit. And anbody who's family member died in the line of duty in that department deserves that as well. Neither of these examples to me are a double standard. These are two special circumstance issues that most people would not have any issue with.

    I do not think choosing to be an EMT should be held in the same reagard as joining the ARMY and fighting in a war.

    We obviously have a difference in opinion and that's fine. But i understand what you are saying. But again, the two issues above are special circumstances. Certain situations and deeds require a different level of respect. Even when a hiring system is supposed to be on a merit system.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by kolat06 View Post
    If you can pass your emt-b and paramedic and be nationally registered you can't be that dumb.
    LOL. Funniest thing I've head all week.


    Especially since paramedic programs are usually an associates.
    Incorrect. Most are 9-month mom and pop jobs. Lots of 6 month medic mills too (gotta get that badge, y'know). Associate programs are making headway, but not fast enough.

    I still think that someone that has put in the time on EMS should get some sort of plus
    Stop *****ting on my profession. EMS isn't something you "put in the time" for; a purgatory you languish in until you can go do something else. It's @$$hats like you that are the reason American EMS is light years behind the rest of the 1st World.
    Last edited by emt161; 11-21-2009 at 11:32 PM.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    LOL. Funniest thing I've head all week.




    Incorrect. Most are 9-month mom and pop jobs. Lots of 6 month medic mills too (gotta get that badge, y'know). Associate programs are making headway, but not fast enough.



    Stop *****ting on my profession. EMS isn't something you "put in the time" for; a purgatory you languish in until you can go do something else. It's @$$hats like you that are the reason American EMS is light years behind the rest of the 1st World.
    So move to Canada, Australia, or NZ then. The guys on emtlife and emtcity can tell you where to apply.

  16. #56
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    Okay, when I came on here I was trying to be respectful and take to heart the things that everyone had to say, but it's really starting to seem like everyone on this forum is out to prove something and like you all just live to moan and complain about how everything sucks and how wrong everything in world is. No matter what approach I consider the only thing I hear is 'screw you that's not the right way to do it!'

    So I'll try one more time to be as open as I can be and just assume that I have been misunderstanding your intentions. I'll completely restate my question so that hopefully nobody will feel like I'm trying to take advantage of any system or make any military work for me or be personally responsible for the reason that the American EMS system is light years behind the rest of world. None of those things were ever my intention, I was simply going off of the knowledge available to me at the time.

    I want to be a firefighter for the the city of New York more than anything else in the world. I am eighteen years old. I need to have some sort of job between now and the tests, and if that job could help me gain experience - strictly personal experience, regardless of whether it would result in me being overqualified or underqualified or whatever - a job that could help me be the best possible candidate I can be when the test date does roll around, then that would be fantastic. I would honestly appreciate any of the advice you guys could give me because I am assuming that most of you have a much more complete understanding of the system as a whole than I do, and since I have never worked as a firefighter before, I want to learn from you. If I have caused any offfense in the past I can assure you that I didn't mean to, and it was strictly a result of my ignorance of what you guys think of the various approaches into this job. That is why I am here. To prevent this from happening once I get into the department. To learn from you. Please teach me.

  17. #57
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    If you want to try EMS, then do it. If you think it sucks and you hate it, then bail.

    Youll find yourself at a buffet table of different opportunities: learning your way around an unfamiliar outer borough, eating at weird restaurants youd have otherwise never heard of, socializing with retards, catering to apparently full grown adults acting like 5 year olds, falling asleep with lots of dorito crumbs on your chest, winning a "You cant eat that in one bite" bet... all these experiences are there for the taking, or at least the chance to witness a coworker taking advantage of said opportunities.

    Its not a bad gig. The pay sucks, but it has its perks. Youre 18. Time's on your side.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    LOL. Funniest thing I've head all week.




    Incorrect. Most are 9-month mom and pop jobs. Lots of 6 month medic mills too (gotta get that badge, y'know). Associate programs are making headway, but not fast enough.



    Stop *****ting on my profession. EMS isn't something you "put in the time" for; a purgatory you languish in until you can go do something else. It's @$$hats like you that are the reason American EMS is light years behind the rest of the 1st World.
    all the schools in my area have a diploma or associates program. thanks for burning the one guy that was trying to stand up for your profession. I guess you are evidence that contradicts my above quote

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    Stop *****ting on my profession. EMS isn't something you "put in the time" for; a purgatory you languish in until you can go do something else. It's @$$hats like you that are the reason American EMS is light years behind the rest of the 1st World.
    it's asshats like that make ems look bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerRichardson View Post
    Okay, when I came on here I was trying to be respectful and take to heart the things that everyone had to say, but it's really starting to seem like everyone on this forum is out to prove something and like you all just live to moan and complain about how everything sucks and how wrong everything in world is. No matter what approach I consider the only thing I hear is 'screw you that's not the right way to do it!'

    So I'll try one more time to be as open as I can be and just assume that I have been misunderstanding your intentions. I'll completely restate my question so that hopefully nobody will feel like I'm trying to take advantage of any system or make any military work for me or be personally responsible for the reason that the American EMS system is light years behind the rest of world. None of those things were ever my intention, I was simply going off of the knowledge available to me at the time.

    I want to be a firefighter for the the city of New York more than anything else in the world. I am eighteen years old. I need to have some sort of job between now and the tests, and if that job could help me gain experience - strictly personal experience, regardless of whether it would result in me being overqualified or underqualified or whatever - a job that could help me be the best possible candidate I can be when the test date does roll around, then that would be fantastic. I would honestly appreciate any of the advice you guys could give me because I am assuming that most of you have a much more complete understanding of the system as a whole than I do, and since I have never worked as a firefighter before, I want to learn from you. If I have caused any offfense in the past I can assure you that I didn't mean to, and it was strictly a result of my ignorance of what you guys think of the various approaches into this job. That is why I am here. To prevent this from happening once I get into the department. To learn from you. Please teach me.
    Your problem is you dont like the answers the members gave you. There is no reason to ask again you WON'T change our minds how we feel. How many more times is this question going to need to be answered. Take what advice you think is the correct advice.... The advice from the members of the job or the advice from NON members of the job.

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