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    Question Licence to carry

    Pretty much everyone in the Forums knows that I don't agree with "Licence To Carry" personal weapons is a good idea. That being said, reading the article below, and the restrictions in place, I have to ask "Why Bother?"

    Packing heat at Starbucks for all the world to see

    "Open carry" supporter at a Starbucks in Cupertino (Courtesy of KTVU)

    In a report highlighting the "open carry" gun movement, KTVU's Lloyd LaCuesta interviewed locals who are hanging out in public, packing heat and exerting their Second Amendment right for all the world to see.

    Advocates across the country are picnicking together, going to zoos, going to church and picking up trash. Most notably, supporters protested Obama this past summer. In the Bay area, David Julian, 27, and others are hanging out at a Cupertino Starbucks, sipping their Venti coffees with guns holstered to their hips.

    Supporters, who appear to come from all backgrounds, also say they're toting firearms to educate others about guns and their constitutional right. They're doing it protect themselves. And they can do it legally, as Julian demonstrated in his YouTube video below, which shows two Santa Clara deputies checking Julian's gun.

    You can openly carry a firearm in California, but as KTVU and the Los Angeles Times explain, the gun must be unloaded and holstered. The ammunition cannot be attached to the gun, said Sunnyvale Police Capt. Doug Moretto. Other rules include:

    -- The weapon can be inspected, but there can be no search for the gun's serial number. The open carrier cannot be within 1,000 feet of a school, on the grounds of a college or university, or in government buildings or secure areas of airports (KTVU).

    -- People with drug or violent crime convictions or mental disorders cannot open carry (KTVU).

    -- In cities within the state, publicly displayed guns must not be loaded. In unincorporated areas, loaded guns can be carried openly unless a local ordinance prohibits it. (LA Times)

    But U.S. laws vary across the U.S. The Times cites Utah's "two step" regulation.

    Of course the open carry issue raises several concerns. Officers interviewed by KTVU point out that there's no telling if the gun is loaded and that a tense situation could turn violent.

    You can watch the KTVU report here. For an overview of open carry regulations, check Opencarry.org. The SF-based Legal Community Against Violence has more on California gun laws.

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    While I disagree with you about open or concealed carry, I agree - what the hell is the point, or use, in carrying an unloaded weapon? It's like waling around with an empty coffee cup.

    I have begun to carry more frequently in the past year, 1 because I can, and 2 because the economy sucks and there are fewer police officers around, 3 there is more of a bleed over of the violent gangs from the dumps that pass for cities around me. It also ****es off the Prius driving flaming liberals around here too.
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    I agree with the movement. It just shows that people can have a gun and not everyone around them will die. A well trained shooter should have no problem quickly loadng the weapon.
    FF/Paramedic

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    1) With the price of bullets lately, Starbucks seems like a bargain.

    2) Walking around with an unloaded gun is like driving around with an empty fire engine. Why not carry a Tazer without batteries, or an empty can of OC.

    Great job by California to pretent to be pro-gun . You have the right to bear arms but not bullets.....
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7 View Post
    You can openly carry a firearm in California, but as KTVU and the Los Angeles Times explain, the gun must be unloaded and holstered. The ammunition cannot be attached to the gun, said Sunnyvale Police Capt. Doug Moretto.
    Doesn't this mean that you could carry a loaded clip on the opposite hip as the pistol? Or in a pocket? Sure a gun would take longer to be ready to use if it had to be loaded prior to firing, but the comments posted here make it sound like you are not allowed to carry ammunition at all.

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    This is all Andy Griffith's fault! Just because he got away with it to Barney, he thinks he can make the rest us of run around with unloaded weapons!

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    Actually, I think it is stupid.

    In these parts, it would be considered an act of aggression and get you into a REAL gunfight with REAL bullets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire1977 View Post
    Actually, I think it is stupid.

    In these parts, it would be considered an act of aggression and get you into a REAL gunfight with REAL bullets.
    Quote Crocodile Dundee:

    You call that a knife.....
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Here's the problem from a LE standpoint...

    In the first five minutes of a firearms safety class and in the first five minutes of an officer survival course, they teach you the same thing. What is it?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNFF319 View Post
    I agree with the movement. It just shows that people can have a gun and not everyone around them will die. A well trained shooter should have no problem quickly loadng the weapon.
    The problem is that not everyone has a RangeUSA,Rangemasters,Top Brass or similar shooting range in their neighborhoods to stay current in training and practice.(What a pity the public range at the Penal Farm wasn't leased out to someone else,huh?)
    Not everyone likes autoloaders,either.I prefer revolvers and they do take longer no matter how well practiced I am at speedloading.It doesn't mean an attacker will survive waiting for me to reload before trying again but it will result in seriously increased heartrate on my part.I might even get nervous about it.
    Usually,if you see me carrying a firearm in a holster,rest assured that it is loaded,unless I am entering a gun show.There are other times that mine are empty like when storing or cleaning them.
    Last edited by doughesson; 11-19-2009 at 12:37 PM.

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    My main point here is that while I dont like the idea of persons carrying firearms, who are not LEO/Security/Military trained and employed I also dont see the point of carrying a "tool" that technically (according to the article) you can't actually use at the time and place where/when you may need it most.

    That would be something like having a bag of nails to build a house, but no lumber and no hammer. Looks great in theory, but bugger all for practicality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7 View Post
    My main point here is that while I dont like the idea of persons carrying firearms, who are not LEO/Security/Military trained and employed I also dont see the point of carrying a "tool" that technically (according to the article) you can't actually use at the time and place where/when you may need it most.

    That would be something like having a bag of nails to build a house, but no lumber and no hammer. Looks great in theory, but bugger all for practicality.
    I do not read that you can not carry the bag of nails in a pouch on the same tool belt that you have the hammer hanging on.....
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Denis, the point I was trying to make is that what good is a bag of nails, if you have no hammer to bash them with.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Here's the problem from a LE standpoint...

    In the first five minutes of a firearms safety class and in the first five minutes of an officer survival course, they teach you the same thing. What is it?
    Run away, screaming like a girl?
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Here's the problem from a LE standpoint...

    In the first five minutes of a firearms safety class and in the first five minutes of an officer survival course, they teach you the same thing. What is it?

    At the risk of stating the obvious... Treat every gun as if it were loaded!
    Shawn M. Cecula
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    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2Capt View Post
    At the risk of stating the obvious... Treat every gun as if it were loaded!
    And that is why some people run away, screaming like a girl!

    Dad always taught me that one and a related one:

    Don't point the gun at anything you don't plan to shoot.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    And that is why some people run away, screaming like a girl!

    Dad always taught me that one and a related one:

    Don't point the gun at anything you don't plan to shoot.
    I was taught this BEFORE told to treat them like they are loaded. And was even the first thing mentioned when getting our rifles issued to us at the armory on Parris Island.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7 View Post
    Denis, the point I was trying to make is that what good is a bag of nails, if you have no hammer to bash them with.
    I see, but where does it say you can't carry the hammer on your belt and the nails in your pocket?
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace View Post
    I see, but where does it say you can't carry the hammer on your belt and the nails in your pocket?
    So much for sarcastic analogy.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace View Post
    I was taught this BEFORE told to treat them like they are loaded. And was even the first thing mentioned when getting our rifles issued to us at the armory on Parris Island.
    It's no coincidence that my dad was a military man like you--US Army MP, Fort Monroe, VA, 1964-1966.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2Capt View Post
    At the risk of stating the obvious... Treat every gun as if it were loaded!
    Exactly.......
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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