1. #1
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    Default AFG Requirements

    Is anyone aware that 100% of your membership has to have ICS 100, ICS 200 and NIMS 700 to get your money?

    Believe it or not we almost didn't our funding because of it.

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    Been that way for a while, except in the volunteer world 100% is non-existent. Can't bring people in one month and expect it to be done, so there is some wiggle room. But the organization and municipality needs to formally adopt NIMS and also have an SOP for having new personnel trained. Anyone that's been there more than a year should be done.

    And if you're not y'all might want to wander over to training.fema.gov and take all of those courses. It's 800, 700, 100, and 200 now, all are free and can be done in a self-study format. Other than some terminology changes it's still ICS except for the DHS involvement. Some quick reading and the online test is a cinch. Only 300 and 400 have to be full instructor taught classes.

    Texas is checking on all grants from state money, several others are doing the same. Paperwork must be on file in Austin in order to collect.

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    We have our dept covered, no thanks to the STO.

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    Rant mode on.....

    Don't necessarilly blame your STO.... Some states have been teaching I-100, 200, 300, and 400 along with positioon specific ICS classes since the '90's. Some in the western portion of the country since the '80's! I worked directly for the STO in NYS delivering NWCG ICS training since 1995!

    It was DHS / FEMA that woke up one morning, post-Katrina, and realized that ICS was a good thing, they somehow took credit for "inventing" it, and then mandated that everyone from the mayor to the dogcatcher's assistant take it. They provided no practical applicability of ICS, they just mandated the training... Now we have a bunch of drones who all think that we are better off as a nation because the local Town Clerk the passed a couple of on-line traning courses, all written at a fourth grade comprehension level.

    Rant mode off.......
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    Been that way for a while, except in the volunteer world 100% is non-existent. Can't bring people in one month and expect it to be done, so there is some wiggle room.
    We've been 100% CERTIFIED since 2004 +/-, as are many of our mutual aid depts. Never been more than 30% proficient though, which i think is DFDCar1's point. Those who need to understand, do understand. Some never will. The rest are somewhere in between.

    As long as we know we need to do what we're told...should be good.

    earl

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    So you haven't had anyone join since 2004? The instant they do you're not 100%. Point was that few are 100% certified at all times, but the idea is to have everyone that's been there more than a year through it so 90%+ is always the minimum.

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    Here's my point, maybe a little more clearly: The DHS/FEMA "definition" of NIMS Complient says that everyone needs to have completed I-100, 200, 700, and Command Officers I-800. I would ask: What deliverable proficiency/capability does that give ANY fire department? I believe, and it's been demonstrated, that the answer is NONE!

    Now have an FD actually adopt and train to the tenents of ICS, and develop proficiency in their Command and General Staff so that they can actually execute the planning process, and they'd be FAR better off.

    BTW -I'm also a Type II All-Hazards Safety Officer (qualified & certified), and I'm currently working on my All-Hazards Operations Section Chief task book. I've been on numerous in and out-of-state deployments with a Type II IMT, so I've seen first hand the "preparedness" that having people take silly on-line courses doesn't do for this nation. IMHO - These on-line courses are just check-boxes for grant eligibility. They serve no preparedness purpose at all.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

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    The idea is take the courses and learn a few things, or a lot in some cases. Many don't even have any semblance of ICS at all, hence the reason for Big Brother to legislate what we're supposed to do. I zipped through it because of many moons of learning about and participating in ICS over the years. First class for a recruit? Heck no. But again no reason that anyone that's been in more than a year shouldn't be familiar with it since no one knows where the next major Homeland Security event will be. Might find a non-compliant department on the sidelines watching. If memory serves me correctly weren't some people in CA on wildfires told to leave after it was found they didn't have certs? After all we're in America and the only thing that counts is the paperwork when it comes to pointing fingers. With some of the lawsuits that have been awarded I can see at a major incident someone getting hurt or killed that wasn't NIMS compliant and then everyone else there getting sued because they "let" that person be there when the "should have known" they weren't trained for it. Just like if the Feds didn't do anything related to a National Directorate and more fusterclucked responses like Katrina and the others happened, then even more BS comes down on us because it showed no one played well with anyone else at any other level of the government during the response. And more lawsuits are filed, and the circle of fun never ends. The only thing they can hold over departments to try to make them do the right thing is withhold grant money so they do it.

    Of course we all just could do the right thing to begin with but what would the fun in that be...

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    Red face wishy-washy reply

    I too have a lot to say about NIMS. Not all good. However I think NIMS is the only real practical way to have some set of protocols in place. We as a nation must really anticipate a major disaster or worse an attack. So I believe NIMS is a priority. I do not believe however that its NIMS compliant or you get nothing. I belive there is some moral issues about an all or nothing position.
    I sympathize with many of the positions here. I see value to both sides of this issue.
    Anyway, if we can make sure that NIMS (the agency) does not get out of control with authority, it will be THE protocol for our security in an event.

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