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    Default federally mandated annual haz-mat training for volunteers

    Ok so I was reading the U.S. Fire Administration's book on Retention and Recruitment for Volunteer Services and within the 261 pages it refers to Volunteers having to complete federally mandated Hazardous Materials training every year. Here is the entire Paragraph:

    "Today, most fire departments require volunteers to complete a basic firefighting class of over 100 hours before being able to fight fires (see Table 2). Departments that provide emergency medical care may require members to certify as an emergency medical first responder, which is another 75 to 120 hours of training. Firefighters also must attend federally mandated annual hazardous materials training, which can range from 10 to 25 hours. Although recertification is not as time-demanding as the initial training, it is another demand that volunteers must fit into their busy schedules."

    Does anyone have any Information on what this training has to consist of and how many hours it must be for? A link to a web-site on it would be very helpful. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BVFD 253 View Post
    Ok so I was reading the U.S. Fire Administration's book on Retention and Recruitment for Volunteer Services and within the 261 pages it refers to Volunteers having to complete federally mandated Hazardous Materials training every year. Here is the entire Paragraph:

    "Today, most fire departments require volunteers to complete a basic firefighting class of over 100 hours before being able to fight fires (see Table 2). Departments that provide emergency medical care may require members to certify as an emergency medical first responder, which is another 75 to 120 hours of training. Firefighters also must attend federally mandated annual hazardous materials training, which can range from 10 to 25 hours. Although recertification is not as time-demanding as the initial training, it is another demand that volunteers must fit into their busy schedules."

    Does anyone have any Information on what this training has to consist of and how many hours it must be for? A link to a web-site on it would be very helpful. Thanks.
    They're talking about an Awareness-level haz-mat class. I believe it's about 12-16 hours for most places. Your LEPC should be providing this to you, if not contact your emergency management director and inquire about getting it.

    Most areas also want emergency personnel to be trained to the Operations-level, which is an additional 24 hours (if I remember right). Once again, your LEPC/county EMD should be able to get this to you and your guys.

    I believe the "annual" part they're referring to is the refresher training for these two levels, which doesn't require much.

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    But we are "not professionals", what is going on? Its just another night or two away from the wife and kids. I know its important but it seems we are already have enough training/in-service. I can stick my thumb up and see that I am way too close, and I can use binoculars to read the placard and I can call for the technicians and then go home. Just ranting!! Thanks for listening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerfire1156 View Post
    But we are "not professionals", what is going on? Its just another night or two away from the wife and kids. I know its important but it seems we are already have enough training/in-service. I can stick my thumb up and see that I am way too close, and I can use binoculars to read the placard and I can call for the technicians and then go home. Just ranting!! Thanks for listening.
    Training never ends in the fire service, and to think it should with being a volunteer would be down right suicidal. Our families count on us to come home afterwards and the community relies on us to know how to deal with and fix the emergency situation.

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    I couldn't agree more, like I said just ranting, just came got back in from a three dayer. Missed the family.

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    I beleive Awareness is 2 hours and Operations level is 6.

    The Op figures includes the 2 hours of Awareness level refresher training.

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    Directly from OSHA...

    1910.120(q)(6)(i)
    First responder awareness level. First responders at the awareness level are individuals who are likely to witness or discover a hazardous substance release and who have been trained to initiate an emergency response sequence by notifying the proper authorities of the release. They would take no further action beyond notifying the authorities of the release. First responders at the awareness level shall have sufficient training or have had sufficient experience to objectively demonstrate competency in the following areas:

    1910.120(q)(6)(i)(A)
    An understanding of what hazardous substances are, and the risks associated with them in an incident.

    1910.120(q)(6)(i)(B)
    An understanding of the potential outcomes associated with an emergency created when hazardous substances are present.

    1910.120(q)(6)(i)(C)
    The ability to recognize the presence of hazardous substances in an emergency.

    1910.120(q)(6)(i)(D)
    The ability to identify the hazardous substances, if possible.

    1910.120(q)(6)(i)(E)
    An understanding of the role of the first responder awareness individual in the employer's emergency response plan including site security and control and the U.S. Department of Transportation's Emergency Response Guidebook.

    1910.120(q)(6)(i)(F)
    The ability to realize the need for additional resources, and to make appropriate notifications to the communication center.

    1910.120(q)(6)(ii)
    First responder operations level. First responders at the operations level are individuals who respond to releases or potential releases of hazardous substances as part of the initial response to the site for the purpose of protecting nearby persons, property, or the environment from the effects of the release. They are trained to respond in a defensive fashion without actually trying to stop the release. Their function is to contain the release from a safe distance, keep it from spreading, and prevent exposures. First responders at the operational level shall have received at least eight hours of training or have had sufficient experience to objectively demonstrate competency in the following areas in addition to those listed for the awareness level and the employer shall so certify:

    1910.120(q)(6)(ii)(A)
    Knowledge of the basic hazard and risk assessment techniques.

    1910.120(q)(6)(ii)(B)
    Know how to select and use proper personal protective equipment provided to the first responder operational level.

    1910.120(q)(6)(ii)(C)
    An understanding of basic hazardous materials terms.

    1910.120(q)(6)(ii)(D)
    Know how to perform basic control, containment and/or confinement operations within the capabilities of the resources and personal protective equipment available with their unit.

    1910.120(q)(6)(ii)(E)
    Know how to implement basic decontamination procedures.

    1910.120(q)(6)(ii)(F)
    An understanding of the relevant standard operating procedures and termination procedures.
    As well as...

    1910.120(q)(6)(v)
    On scene incident commander. Incident commanders, who will assume control of the incident scene beyond the first responder awareness level, shall receive at least 24 hours of training equal to the first responder operations level and in addition have competency in the following areas and the employer shall so certify:

    1910.120(q)(6)(v)(A)
    Know and be able to implement the employer's incident command system.

    1910.120(q)(6)(v)(B)
    Know how to implement the employer's emergency response plan.

    1910.120(q)(6)(v)(C)
    Know and understand the hazards and risks associated with employees working in chemical protective clothing.

    1910.120(q)(6)(v)(D)
    Know how to implement the local emergency response plan.

    1910.120(q)(6)(v)(E)
    Know of the state emergency response plan and of the Federal Regional Response Team.

    1910.120(q)(6)(v)(F)
    Know and understand the importance of decontamination procedures.
    And in regards to refresher training...

    1910.120(q)(8) Refresher training.
    1910.120(q)(8)(i)
    Those employees who are trained in accordance with paragraph (q)(6) of this section shall receive annual refresher training of sufficient content and duration to maintain their competencies, or shall demonstrate competency in those areas at least yearly.

    1910.120(q)(8)(ii)
    A statement shall be made of the training or competency, and if a statement of competency is made, the employer shall keep a record of the methodology used to demonstrate competency.
    You can also look into NFPA 471 and 472 for more insight into this one, as they cite and often times mirror OSHA.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I beleive Awareness is 2 hours and Operations level is 6.

    The Op figures includes the 2 hours of Awareness level refresher training.
    I have no idea how you're getting the required training in 2 and 6 hours. The new curriculum for the new NFPA standards are putting our courses at 12 and 24 hours. I've never taken a 6-hour haz-mat class, let alone Awareness or Ops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerfire1156 View Post
    But we are "not professionals", what is going on? Its just another night or two away from the wife and kids. I know its important but it seems we are already have enough training/in-service. I can stick my thumb up and see that I am way too close, and I can use binoculars to read the placard and I can call for the technicians and then go home. Just ranting!! Thanks for listening.
    Remember, that training is what's giving you the knowledge and experience to return home to your wife and kids. Professionals or not, we're still dealing with the same things the professionals are and are expected to have the same end result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Remember, that training is what's giving you the knowledge and experience to return home to your wife and kids. Professionals or not, we're still dealing with the same things the professionals are and are expected to have the same end result.
    Again for the last time just ranting. If anyone knows that training is vital to preventing accident or injury, its me. And for the professional side, I am just as professional and knowledgable as a career man. Cant a man release some steam any more without someone stoking up the fire again??

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerfire1156 View Post
    Again for the last time just ranting. If anyone knows that training is vital to preventing accident or injury, its me. And for the professional side, I am just as professional and knowledgable as a career man. Cant a man release some steam any more without someone stoking up the fire again??
    Rant all you want, but what did you expect by essentially invoking the "we're only volunteers" disclaimer? If you want to rant about how useless, annoying or whatever a type of training is, then focus on that point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerfire1156 View Post
    Again for the last time just ranting. If anyone knows that training is vital to preventing accident or injury, its me. And for the professional side, I am just as professional and knowledgable as a career man. Cant a man release some steam any more without someone stoking up the fire again??
    Not to rehash what firemedic said, but you're more than welcome to rant all you want, just as I should be more than welcome to criticize your rant.

    I guess I've lost my patience with guys complaining about training for a vollie department after they volunteered to serve with them. Especially after I do my time as a volunteer chief, running calls and all that it entails, which comes after I do my 24 hours every third day, plus the time I put in for committees, overtime, extra shifts filling in for our vacant fire marshal spot, and all the training I must do for both positions and to keep my paramedic license, inspector cert, investigator cert, haz-mat: tech cert, and any other number of CEU-based certifications I hold. And then there's that time I put in helping other departments get training, since we don't have many instructors around where I vollie, including the two nights a week I teach a firefighter I and II course.

    But hey, I still make time with my family and don't whine and moan about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I beleive Awareness is 2 hours and Operations level is 6.

    The Op figures includes the 2 hours of Awareness level refresher training.

    Are you talking about Con Ed for Hazmat? Because in NC, Awareness is a 18 hr class and Operations is a 32 hr class. Once completed you receive your hazmat level I, operations cert. This of course is a requirement in order to get your FF I, FF II cert. The Con Ed is not bad at all, we will take a dot placard class and a LP Gas Live burn class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Not to rehash what firemedic said, but you're more than welcome to rant all you want, just as I should be more than welcome to criticize your rant.

    I guess I've lost my patience with guys complaining about training for a vollie department after they volunteered to serve with them. Especially after I do my time as a volunteer chief, running calls and all that it entails, which comes after I do my 24 hours every third day, plus the time I put in for committees, overtime, extra shifts filling in for our vacant fire marshal spot, and all the training I must do for both positions and to keep my paramedic license, inspector cert, investigator cert, haz-mat: tech cert, and any other number of CEU-based certifications I hold. And then there's that time I put in helping other departments get training, since we don't have many instructors around where I vollie, including the two nights a week I teach a firefighter I and II course.

    But hey, I still make time with my family and don't whine and moan about it.
    Well now, you seemed to have opened a big can of worms here. First of all this vollie phrase is typically used by the career man. I along with others prefer the standard word volunteers. You seem to be a very busy man with all the things listed above. Frankly, I dont see how you have time to spend with your family i.e. 24 hrs every third day, committees, overtime, and teaching FFI and FFII, etc. You have to be spending time with them while still performing all the jobs/duties you said that you have a hand in. My family doesnt like it when I cant devote what little time I have to them, its hard leaving the fire department business, calls, etc behind and I dont blame them for wanting my full desire and attention to towards them. I take my volunteering serious, sometimes way too serious. You have no right to question my dedication, by saying I am whining and moaning about it. I can list the things I do, have done, but I dont have to do that to justify myself on a post. Yes, you have the right to come back at my posts just as I have done to others and on this one. I will be observing your posts to see if you are raking others over the coals when they talking down about volunteers or the training requirements for volunteers. Just Curious how much you are compensated for the position of Chief, OVERTIME and teaching which you listed as one of the many things you do.
    And here we go............

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    INCOMING!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerfire1156 View Post
    Well now, you seemed to have opened a big can of worms here. First of all this vollie phrase is typically used by the career man. I along with others prefer the standard word volunteers. You seem to be a very busy man with all the things listed above. Frankly, I dont see how you have time to spend with your family i.e. 24 hrs every third day, committees, overtime, and teaching FFI and FFII, etc. You have to be spending time with them while still performing all the jobs/duties you said that you have a hand in. My family doesnt like it when I cant devote what little time I have to them, its hard leaving the fire department business, calls, etc behind and I dont blame them for wanting my full desire and attention to towards them. I take my volunteering serious, sometimes way too serious. You have no right to question my dedication, by saying I am whining and moaning about it. I can list the things I do, have done, but I dont have to do that to justify myself on a post. Yes, you have the right to come back at my posts just as I have done to others and on this one. I will be observing your posts to see if you are raking others over the coals when they talking down about volunteers or the training requirements for volunteers. Just Curious how much you are compensated for the position of Chief, OVERTIME and teaching which you listed as one of the many things you do.
    And here we go............
    OK, first of all, I've been a vollie (and no, that's not a career man's term) for longer than I've been career, so don't try to paint me with that brush. I'm not one of those career guys that's anti-vollie, and never have been.

    The reason I listed everything I do is to prove a point, not to justify anything. It's the same thing I do to my guys when they start complaining. I take my job (career and volunteer) seriously and am committed to both. Truth be known, I do more extra stuff for my vollie department.

    You'll also note I didn't question your dedication. I called you out for ranting, whining, or whatever you want to call it, about the amount of training required. Career or volunteer, the door out is always just as open as it was in.

    You can also search all my posts you like, I'm sure you'll find me quite consistent. Let me know if that's not the case. You'll also find me very supportive of anyone who wants to better themselves, or their departments, or might just be looking for information (such as in this case).

    And, just for the point, I'm not paid a dime for being the chief of my vollie department. I don't get paid to run calls (neither do my guys/gals, by our choice), to attend the various chiefs meetings, the emergency management meetings, or to write the grants that I do. The closest thing I've had to being paid for my services is for my department to send me to training, whether it's fire/EMS or for such things as grant writing seminars. Overtime is part of my job, so yes, I get paid, but probably not as much as you think (I've been on six years, am a captain, and this is the first year I've broke $40K). As for the training, on occassion I'll get paid, depending on the class, but I've done many, many hours pro-bono or for a free meal that the department served to get their guys to attend, or even to say thank you.

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    Sounds Good, to clarify further, we dont get paid for anything. I drive my personal vehicle to training, the gas in that vehicle is paid out of my pocket. But not a problem as it (training) helps me to help my community better and that is what it is all about.
    The quote "the door out is always just as open as it was in". I dont agree with that. I dont know if you have ever experienced the joy that comes when you see a family that is able to go back to their house the next day after a house fire that you and your department helped save. If you havent then you probably will one day. So that quote is untrue. When you experience that and you have the willingness to help your neighbor, then it is hard to leave, quite, or whatever you mean by that quote if the desire is still inside. I hope that attitude is not given to your members, especially when they are down and out about something and maybe you overhear him.her say that. I dont think that is a good fundamental when it comes to leadership. Not saying that you do that. I'm not questioning anything about you just calling you out as you did me. Fair game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerfire1156 View Post
    Sounds Good, to clarify further, we dont get paid for anything. I drive my personal vehicle to training, the gas in that vehicle is paid out of my pocket. But not a problem as it (training) helps me to help my community better and that is what it is all about.
    The quote "the door out is always just as open as it was in". I dont agree with that. I dont know if you have ever experienced the joy that comes when you see a family that is able to go back to their house the next day after a house fire that you and your department helped save. If you havent then you probably will one day. So that quote is untrue. When you experience that and you have the willingness to help your neighbor, then it is hard to leave, quite, or whatever you mean by that quote if the desire is still inside. I hope that attitude is not given to your members, especially when they are down and out about something and maybe you overhear him.her say that. I dont think that is a good fundamental when it comes to leadership. Not saying that you do that. I'm not questioning anything about you just calling you out as you did me. Fair game.
    I've been doing this volunteer for 15 years, so I've experience that and much more. The people that actually need help are the reason I still do it, vollie and career.

    The only people I get an attitude with are those that have an attitude. So, yes, I have said the same thing to my guys. It calls them out and it's a slap in the face to make them realize we're not the reason we're doing this. The people who have the house burning, or the family member sick or dying, or are trapped in a car, or whatever, are the ones we're doing it for. I don't coddle them, nor do they expect me to. They expect me to do what I do, lead by example and make sure they go home to their families. They also know when they need something, my door is always open and they can come to me.

    The foundation of my leadership is that I don't expect anything out of my people that I wouldn't expect out of myself. They know I don't care to hear them complain about silly things, nor do they expect to hear me do it. They also know that when it comes to work time, they're going to be hard pressed to outwork me, be it rolling hose or cleaning the station. I also have hung in my locker at work, the office at the vollie station, and in the engine room at the vollie station the Principles of Leadership by Major Richard Winters. I strive to follow those principles and expect my guys to do so.

    You can call me out on whatever you like, it's no skin off my back.

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    Ooooooooopssss ....

    I thought he was asking about refresher training.

    Catch 22 is right about the hours for initial Awareness and Operations classes. After that it is a yearly 2 & 6.

    My bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Ooooooooopssss ....

    I thought he was asking about refresher training.

    Catch 22 is right about the hours for initial Awareness and Operations classes. After that it is a yearly 2 & 6.

    My bad.
    Honest mistake. No worries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Ooooooooopssss ....

    I thought he was asking about refresher training.

    Catch 22 is right about the hours for initial Awareness and Operations classes. After that it is a yearly 2 & 6.

    My bad.
    That sounds a LOT better!

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerfire1156 View Post
    Well now, you seemed to have opened a big can of worms here. First of all this vollie phrase is typically used by the career man. I along with others prefer the standard word volunteers. You seem to be a very busy man with all the things listed above. Frankly, I dont see how you have time to spend with your family i.e. 24 hrs every third day, committees, overtime, and teaching FFI and FFII, etc. You have to be spending time with them while still performing all the jobs/duties you said that you have a hand in. My family doesnt like it when I cant devote what little time I have to them, its hard leaving the fire department business, calls, etc behind and I dont blame them for wanting my full desire and attention to towards them. I take my volunteering serious, sometimes way too serious. You have no right to question my dedication, by saying I am whining and moaning about it. I can list the things I do, have done, but I dont have to do that to justify myself on a post. Yes, you have the right to come back at my posts just as I have done to others and on this one. I will be observing your posts to see if you are raking others over the coals when they talking down about volunteers or the training requirements for volunteers. Just Curious how much you are compensated for the position of Chief, OVERTIME and teaching which you listed as one of the many things you do.
    And here we go............
    Wow.

    No offense - but you ran that can opener, not anyone else.

    I don't know how anyone can properly run a Volunteer department and work a full time job. I can safely say I put at least 8-10 hours in a week - before we turn a wheel. Paperwork, NFIRS, Training, Grants, Maintenance, Fund raising, Political, Public Relations, purchasing, Begging, and more. I am delegating more and more, but ultimately it hinges on my responsiblity. I do it because I love what I do. Every day is different. My family knows that - and they are better for it - two kids have been heavily involved, and have attended college through the Fire Service grants, and are paying it back by being involved as adults in the fire service (and EMS)

    6k a year budget to cover 200 square miles, two stations, insurance, fuel, utilities, equipment, maintenance, etc.

    I also serve in the county Fire Chiefs Association as president. More hours.

    I have to attend the same training as my guys/girls do, and more. Then I get to counsel some of them on their training performance.

    Oh, lets not forget - the other problems that supervising a group of people brings. Yeah, personal problems and issues should not be in the station, but they are, its a fact of life. That is probably the worse part of my job. You can't imagine the number of times I get to help out with funds from the "Chiefs special fund" AKA my pocket.

    Ooops - I nearly forgot the trips 1200 miles away to get donations of equipment for the departments down here from the wonderful folks in PA, NY, and NJ. Thanks guys!

    I know Mike gets to deal with all that - while working full time. I can only do this because I am self employed. (well, I call it work) We both get the big bucks for our VOLLIE position, 0.00 an hour, the same for calls. Our overtime rate is time and half of 0.00.

    What do I get in return? Every October the county gives us a biscuit and gravy breakfast.
    I get my patrons stopping by the station and thanking us. I get cards and letters of thanks. People look up to my firefighters. 10% discount at McDonalds. No, they stopped that. I get to help kids keep on track and turn into productive adults. I get to learn. I get to teach. I get good friends who are the BEST FRICKEN FIREFIGHTERS and EMS people in the area!

    All good things. And I get a kewl hat.

    What do I expect of my firefighters? Be a good example. Respond. Train. Be there for the fellow firefighters. Be there for your community. NO WHINING.

    That no whining plays into so much of the above. Setting a good example - whining is not a good example. Train. You can't learn while whining. Respond. I damn well better not hear you whining on a call. Being there for your fellow firefighter and the community? Whining is not it.

    Amazingly, I hear very little whining anymore.

    I echo and fully agree with,

    "the door out is always just as open as it was in."

    Oh, and I like turtles.

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    Angry Let farmerfire rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Not to rehash what firemedic said, but you're more than welcome to rant all you want, just as I should be more than welcome to criticize your rant.

    I guess I've lost my patience with guys complaining about training for a vollie department after they volunteered to serve with them. Especially after I do my time as a volunteer chief, running calls and all that it entails, which comes after I do my 24 hours every third day, plus the time I put in for committees, overtime, extra shifts filling in for our vacant fire marshal spot, and all the training I must do for both positions and to keep my paramedic license, inspector cert, investigator cert, haz-mat: tech cert, and any other number of CEU-based certifications I hold. And then there's that time I put in helping other departments get training, since we don't have many instructors around where I vollie, including the two nights a week I teach a firefighter I and II course.

    But hey, I still make time with my family and don't whine and moan about it.
    I'll whine and moan about it and I think I have a point too. Several in fact. It is not practical for volunteer departments to have to keep up with career departments. For every agency and there is a lot of them, that begins to impose these extra loads, they too should begin to have every employee meet the same loads. In other words, train as well. Take our certifications and when they are compliant, pass them down to us. We're all professionals in one form or another. They are too an it may give a little better understanding of full time job pressures merging with full time fire service demands.

    The problem is not that we aren't refusing to get the training, but there has got to be some common sense here also. Quit throwing in our faces the excuse of our safety, ability to protect others as the reason why we have to meet this requirement this week and another next week. From god how many agencies? It can be compared to our fire apparatus. Just how safe can we get these vehicles to be and at what cost. Another example. The Global Warming issue is now disproved. Falsified data and corruption on a scale that may never be matched. But here we have the new exhaust standards adding 10,000 to 30,000 dollars per vehicle. For what? For a reason that is now disproved? There is a common sense factor that needs to be thrown in here. Every demand on the fire service should now come from one agency only. Let all the other fire agencies within the fire service fight for their place before one ruling agency. Something like that that can give it a mark of approval and a time period to be presented. Right now they are coming out like gum from a gumball machine. THAT isn't right.

    The real reason why these 'extra loads' are being piled on. Its to give the agency that created them a chance to show why they need to exist. Why they should exist.

    Soon it is going to end up where a charge is made because of a lack of compliancy and there will end up being a lawsuit. such as our grants.

    Demand after demand, rule after rule, certification after certification. Soon it will drive away all but the most dedicated volunteers. They have their own certifications to meet and that they get paid to have. Where is the balance of professional (my job) certifications and training vs. volunteer ones? Each side demands theirs. Maybe someone can get out a set of scales and and balance them that way with a limit on each side.

    No it is more than fair to bring this issue to the forefront now. Get the egos and goldbraid out of the way and find a balance based on common sense.

    You go and rant farmerfire, this issue is long overdue to be discussed. RESPECTFULLY.

  23. #23
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    Cool HazMat Training.....

    Check your State's DOT Website for HazMat Training. I know we have to have at least one documented HazMat Entry weither it's on an actual Emergency Incident or in Training.

    You can also check some Industrial Complexes in your Area and see if they could put on a class or where they get their Training Standards/Training from. As far as an additional day/night away from your Family, I don't see that. I know hose is fun to pull, but HazMat can hurt/kill you just as quick or possibly quicker than the "Red Stuff." So it's easy schedule one of your "Hose Pulls Day" and substitute it with a "HazMat Training Day." Plus, how many different ways are there to pull hose? Honestly.....

    Yes, I've worked Volunteer/Vollie, I've worked Paid-Call and I have worked Shift Work for over 10 yrs. and I currently have been working Career for almost 7 yrs. so I can respect your dedication. However, when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter which you are; you're representing a nobel and proud Profession, that is trusted more than Priests/Pastors, etc. So hold yourself to a "higher standard" no matter what level you're at.....

    I know that's outta the box thinking, but I hope it gives you a different aspect/angle to look at this situation.
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

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    Cool Another Thought.....

    I just had another thought..... Unless your District has seperate Turnouts for your Volunteers (which I have personally seen) the Public (Your CUSTOMERS) don't know it you're a Vollie or a Career. So, which has the higher standard? It it's Career in your Area then it should be mandated that you all meet that standard. You can also check out fema's site; fema.gov

    Originally posted by jam24u
    Every demand on the fire service should now come from one agency only. Let all the other fire agencies within the fire service fight for their place before one ruling agency. Something like that that can give it a mark of approval and a time period to be presented. Right now they are coming out like gum from a gumball machine. THAT isn't right.
    As far as only 1 Fire Service Authority..... Dunno how that's practical since HazMat is normally regulated by the Federal/State D.O.T. and they are the Ultimate Authority on this topic. I challenge you with this, where would they fall under? Where in the Fire Service Hiarchy would they fall under? We can't even get our Fire Service to only use 1 Command System (NIMS is a start) but many Depts have had their own System that has worked for them for many years......

    Hi-Rise Fires in New York burn different than in L.A. There are simularities..... So, who would regulate the strategies, tactics and methods to handle these types of Emergencies?
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by jam24u View Post
    I'll whine and moan about it and I think I have a point too.

    hmmm.

    First off, no one is against reasoned thinking, and a discussion with specifics on what we should do to make change. Intelligent discussion is a wonderful thing.

    Espically on the east coast, we have a lot of vollie departments protecting major industrial,
    commercial and residential areas - that in many other parts of the country have paid departments. Why should they not be required to have the same level of training that a paid department is required to have that protects the same exposures and population?

    We ALL have haz-mat issues. Who are people going to call? The fire department. If you don't have the training for initial response, who are you (the fire department) going to call?

    My department has no need for high rise rescue training, as we have no high rise building in our area. Or do we? Mutual aid brings us into a number of apartment buildings over 10 stories.

    Very few departments out there are FIRE departments - we are now all hazards, or multi hazard departments. It is what people expect. How do we provide a trained cadre of people to meet this tasking from our patrons?

    I don't like the multitude of training requirements that are being handed down to us - so the question is - how do we go about fixing the problem, not how much we don't like them, its not fair, I want to spend more time golfing, with my family, with my girlfriend, with my girlfriend and my family, etc.

    The whining part is what will get you ignored at FEMA just like it will get you ignored at my department.

    Here is one of my issues. No water. I depend on my water supply to come by truck, not by those strange iron things I see in the big city on street corners. I have GOOD drivers that for various reasons will never make entry - they are content to drive that truck from the water point to the fire and return, never even getting out of the truck.

    FEMA says (if I get this right) that they must at least be FF1 and II trained, or a plan in place to make it happen. There is no point in that. How do I change FEMAs way of thinking? Should I try? Does it make sense to others?

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