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  1. #1
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    Unhappy Age 37 cutoff and positions covered

    LOOKING TO GET A DoD FIRE POSITION GS OR YN, I WILL BE 37 DEC07, SO I"M RUNNING OUT OF TIME SOMEBODY TOLD ME THAT THEY WERE CHANGING THIS OR YOU CAN GET A WAIVER IF NOT TO FAR OVER THE AGE LIMIT? ALSO WHAT POSITIONS ARE COVERED BY THIS? IS IT JUST FIREFIGHTER AND CREW CHIEF, LINE PERSONAL?


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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREmediccityDod View Post
    LOOKING TO GET A DoD FIRE POSITION GS OR YN, I WILL BE 37 DEC07, SO I"M RUNNING OUT OF TIME SOMEBODY TOLD ME THAT THEY WERE CHANGING THIS OR YOU CAN GET A WAIVER IF NOT TO FAR OVER THE AGE LIMIT? ALSO WHAT POSITIONS ARE COVERED BY THIS? IS IT JUST FIREFIGHTER AND CREW CHIEF, LINE PERSONAL?
    As far as I know, it was changed from 35 TO 37 about 6 or 7 years ago. If they are chainging it, I havn't heard anything about this, and I rather doubt it to be true. No waivers available. This applies to any and all GS0081 personnel. I am not sure if any other series (wildland, paramedics, etc.) are covered by this rule. If you are going to be 37 in 2 weeks, I venture the guess that you are fooked.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    He is right, the age is 37. So 0081 is out unless you want to be an inspector. You can go be a paramedic under the nursing series. It is GS-0640. Camp Pendelton hires medics as 0640 and you work with the fire department.

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    ""out unless you want to be an inspector"""

    There is now upper age limit for inspector?????

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdafd49 View Post
    ""out unless you want to be an inspector"""

    There is now upper age limit for inspector?????
    the 37 age limit is for primary positions (floor/ops jobs).

    SC336.5.2. Maximum Entry Age.
    SC336.5.2.1. Firefighter Positions. Thirty-seven (37) years is the maximum entry age for covered primary firefighter positions. Persons not appointed by the last day of the month in which that individual reaches their 37th birthday shall not be originally appointed or assigned to these positions.

    SC336.5.4. Exception to the Maximum Entry Age. The Head of a DoD Component may approve the original entry of an individual who has passed the entry age limits set forth in subparagraphs SC336.5.2.1. and SC336.5.2.2., above. Age waivers are not required for entry into a covered secondary firefighter or law enforcement officer position.

    http://www.cpms.osd.mil/assets/b27df...e/m1400336.pdf

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    Talking age 37 cutoff

    Thanks for the info ShreddinCali, what positions are considered primary and what positions are considered secondary firefigfhter positions and have you heard of anybody getting a waiver for over 37, I know two dod cheif that got extensions past the 57 mark. Anybody else got some insight.

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    DODI 1400.25 references 5 CFR 842.802 to define what primary (rigorous) and secondary positions are in relation to federal firefighters.

    Hope you can understand legal mumbo-jumbo...

    (842.802) Secondary position means a position that—
    (a) Is clearly in the law enforcement or firefighting field;
    (b) Is in an organization having a law enforcement or firefighting mission;
    and
    (c) Is either—
    (1) Supervisory; that is, a position whose primary duties are as a firstlevel supervisor or law enforcement officers or firefighters in rigorous positions;
    or
    (2) Administrative; that is, an executive, managerial, technical, semiprofessional, or professional position for which experience in a rigorous law enforcement or firefighting position, or equivalent experience outside the Federal Government, is a mandatory prerequisite.

    (842.802): Primary duties means those duties of a position that—
    (a) Are paramount in influence or weight; that is, constitute the basic reasons for the existence of the position;
    (b) Occupy a substantial portion of the individual’s working time over a typical work cycle; and
    (c) Are assigned on a regular and recurring basis.
    Duties that are of an emergency, incidental, or temporary nature cannot be considered ‘‘primary’’ even if they meet the substantial portion of time criterion. In general, if an employee spends an average of at least 50 percent of his or her time performing a duty or group of duties, they are his or her primary duties.

    (842.802): Firefighter means an employee occupying a rigorous position, whose primary duties are to perform work directly connected with the control and extinguishment of fires, as provided in
    5 U.S.C. 8401(14). Also included in this definition is an employee occupying a rigorous firefighter position who moves to a supervisory or administrative position and meets the conditions of § 842.803(b).

    5CFR842.802: http://frwebgate3.access.gpo.gov/cgi...ction=retrieve

    DOD 1400.25: http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/c...00.25-V336.pdf

    ....to answer the waiver question, I have never met or heard of anyone that recieved one. Maybe somebody else that frequents the forum has?
    Last edited by ShredddinCali; 12-15-2009 at 12:05 AM. Reason: typos

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    Talking age 37 cutoff

    Shreddin Cali, After reading the info, I take it that Asst.chief of ops, deputy chief, fire chief, Asst. chief of training, and all inspector slots can be considred secondary positions? Is that how you read it? Any one else with some info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREmediccityDod View Post
    Shreddin Cali, After reading the info, I take it that Asst.chief of ops, deputy chief, fire chief, Asst. chief of training, and all inspector slots can be considred secondary positions? Is that how you read it? Any one else with some info.
    that is correct. the rigorous positions are the firefighters, engineers, and captains (or lt's) on the scene... the secondary positions are the battalion chief's, assissstant chief's, and fire chief's that sit thier fire SUV during the incident... or the training guys and fire inspectors. Pretty much, read your PD for whatever job and compare it to what the CFR describes.

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    Fire Inspectors can be a primary position if they work a 56 Hour work week.

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    as far as i know all fire inspectors work 56 or 60 hour work weeks. if a fire inspector worked a 40 hour work week they would forfeit their firefighter retirement even if they stayed 0081 series. where did you hear that fire inspectors can be classified as primary position?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShredddinCali View Post
    as far as i know all fire inspectors work 56 or 60 hour work weeks. if a fire inspector worked a 40 hour work week they would forfeit their firefighter retirement even if they stayed 0081 series. where did you hear that fire inspectors can be classified as primary position?
    Because at many bases they ride fire apparatus during their overnight tours as active firefighters, and also respond and fight fire during daytime hours if any active fires occur on post.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Because at many bases they ride fire apparatus during their overnight tours as active firefighters, and also respond and fight fire during daytime hours if any active fires occur on post.
    Secondary position means a position that—
    ...an executive, managerial, technical, semiprofessional, or professional position for which experience in a rigorous law enforcement or firefighting position...

    and-

    Primary duties means those duties of a position that—
    (a) Are paramount in influence or weight; that is, constitute the basic reasons for the existence of the position;
    (b) Occupy a substantial portion of the individual’s working time over a typical work cycle; and
    (c) Are assigned on a regular and recurring basis.
    Duties that are of an emergency, incidental, or temporary nature cannot be considered ‘‘primary’’ even if they meet the substantial portion of time criterion. In general, if an employee spends an average of at least 50 percent of his or her time performing a duty or group of duties, they are his or her primary duties.

    ...im not arguing the fact that it happens but it kinda baffles me why. inspector jobs are the jobs that most retirees get because they are over the age qualification for a primary firefighter position.

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    More and more installations are having there Fire Inspectors go to 40 Hr. work week and yes they get the 0081 firefighter retirement. This saves the DOD money and most of the Inspectors are a waste of space at night. The Fire Inspectors That I know who work a 40 Hr. work week work 4 10's.

    You do the homework!

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    Quote Originally Posted by XFedFF View Post
    More and more installations are having there Fire Inspectors go to 40 Hr. work week and yes they get the 0081 firefighter retirement. This saves the DOD money and most of the Inspectors are a waste of space at night. The Fire Inspectors That I know who work a 40 Hr. work week work 4 10's.

    You do the homework!
    where's the incentive to become an inspector for that big of a pay cut?

    GS-8/4-(40hr/week): $46,436 -- fire inspector
    GS-5/1-(72hr/week): $47,343 -- basic shift ff...

    there's my homework

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