1. #1
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    Default Cost for a CAFS skid?

    As I'm gearing up for a possible appeal based on my previous pricing info, I'm curious if anyone's dealt with buying a CAFS skid unit for a brush truck, be it through AFG or not.

    They knocked my request down to $20K. I'm not sure if that's going to be enough or not, so I thought I'd ask you guys. I'm looking at a 200-250 gallon tank with a self-contained (compressor, no bottles) 60 cfm CAFS unit.

    This will also be my first CAFS experience (assuming we get the award), so any thoughts or input in that regard are appreciated, as well.

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    Catch22,

    what the purpose of the CAFS ? wildland or industrial ? Without knowing how it was written up in the narrative this could be why the big switch from the reduction.
    Last edited by mtndew21; 11-25-2009 at 01:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    As I'm gearing up for a possible appeal based on my previous pricing info, I'm curious if anyone's dealt with buying a CAFS skid unit for a brush truck, be it through AFG or not.

    They knocked my request down to $20K. I'm not sure if that's going to be enough or not, so I thought I'd ask you guys. I'm looking at a 200-250 gallon tank with a self-contained (compressor, no bottles) 60 cfm CAFS unit.

    This will also be my first CAFS experience (assuming we get the award), so any thoughts or input in that regard are appreciated, as well.
    We love the Odin Derringer we put in our 2008 rig, but it is big $$'s.
    There were two CAFS units we looked at as a possible budget savers, but I don't remember the price quotes..
    One was "C.E.T. Fire Pumps" WildCAFS unit that looked good for the price, and there was a company out of Canada.. "Snuffer" by "Tuff Built Products" that made some interesting units.
    Of course there is always Waterous, Darley/Odin, .... but $20K is going to be a tight budget.

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    Try this link. It is Rowe Industries they have a huge following in the CAFS world.

    http://www.cafssystems.com

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    Catch, after dealing with it on a 2008 Ops award the official DHS position is CAFS is a waste of money. Even though Forestry and other federal agencies want it on top of state forestry. So odds are it's being cut to a plain skid unit. Went 6 ways from Sunday on the appeal including USFA position papers in favor of foam & CAFS and fell on deaf ears. Department had to turn it down because they had private foundation money pledged to help build a new brush truck around the skid unit with CAFS. Privates wouldn't amend to going without CAFS or help offset the extra cost to go up to it.

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    It's a wildland unit.

    Brian- Interesting info. I'm probably still going to do some inquiring and at least try. If they cut it down to a standard skid, I can probably live with that considering it's better than the junker we have now. I might even see if I can find some funding to make up the difference. I take it since I specified CAFS, they're not going to have a fit that I can't meet what I layed out in the narrative if they dumped it to a standard skid?

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    Nope, they told the other dept they could go plain skid since CAFS wasn't a real need for anyone. Didn't bother taking the award because they would have lost all of the private foundation pledges to help pay for a new truck to put under it since the other one was about shot. Had to turn those back also to the tune of about $60k since they couldn't fulfill the project of a CAFS brush truck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    Nope, they told the other dept they could go plain skid since CAFS wasn't a real need for anyone. Didn't bother taking the award because they would have lost all of the private foundation pledges to help pay for a new truck to put under it since the other one was about shot. Had to turn those back also to the tune of about $60k since they couldn't fulfill the project of a CAFS brush truck.
    That really sucks for them, I hate to see that happen.

    In our case, I guess we'll live. I had started to write it in as an entire bed (had looked at one of those poly beds with the integrated tanks), but knocked it back to a skid cause I thought I was high with the CAFS. I guess I should have just kept it the same, as I doubt they'll consider an entire bed as a "skid", even if it's all integrated together. I guess there's still Class A foam!

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    Catch,

    We had a department here get 20k for a skid with CAFS. They ended up slightly under 20k with a demo unit.

    I will find out what company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    Catch, after dealing with it on a 2008 Ops award the official DHS position is CAFS is a waste of money. Even though Forestry and other federal agencies want it on top of state forestry. So odds are it's being cut to a plain skid unit. Went 6 ways from Sunday on the appeal including USFA position papers in favor of foam & CAFS and fell on deaf ears. Department had to turn it down because they had private foundation money pledged to help build a new brush truck around the skid unit with CAFS. Privates wouldn't amend to going without CAFS or help offset the extra cost to go up to it.
    I've become totally convienced that the people running the FG program either are new in last couple years (and untrainable idiots) or have Alzheimers. If "I was running the program" I'd REQUIRE CAFS on all pumper. One of the major advances of the last couple decades.

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    What's funny is that in the 2011 renewal for AFG is a new concern for water conservation, including how to put out fires without using as much, so looks like foam and CAFS will be favored in the new AFG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    As I'm gearing up for a possible appeal based on my previous pricing info, I'm curious if anyone's dealt with buying a CAFS skid unit for a brush truck, be it through AFG or not.

    They knocked my request down to $20K. I'm not sure if that's going to be enough or not, so I thought I'd ask you guys. I'm looking at a 200-250 gallon tank with a self-contained (compressor, no bottles) 60 cfm CAFS unit.

    This will also be my first CAFS experience (assuming we get the award), so any thoughts or input in that regard are appreciated, as well.
    Least expensive integrated system that I'm aware of is to us the Waterous 70-35-GP. List is little under $15k. In 2009. By the time DHS gets off their butts and makes awards will be _____? Smaller system but capable and a HUGE improvement over POW. Add a few $k for each step up the size range.

    http://www.waterousco.com/CAFSystems..._70-35-GP.html

    If you're installing on your new Chevy a 80cfm PTO system may be about as affordable for a lot more capability. Particularily if you already have foam pump.

    The ONLY choice for controls to even look at is the Elkhart ICS.
    I looked at the 70-35 for our pumper tanker as least expensive way to install CAFS ended up installing a Waterous 140cfm PTO retrofit. @ discharges (electric valves w/ICS controls) w/foam pump ($4k) the kit was $21500 (+install).

    I assume you've considered cold CAFS may be another option.

    Plan C might be diesel compressor from DOD surplus for air source (though apparently informing your forester of the specifics of how you're going to use if might not be a good idea).

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    What's funny is that in the 2011 renewal for AFG is a new concern for water conservation, including how to put out fires without using as much, so looks like foam and CAFS will be favored in the new AFG.
    Likely that comes from the envirowacko office in the Whitehouse - save water from the man caused earth ending crisis; save the earth be keeping carbon out of the atmosphere, etc.

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    It came from a Congressfolk in the Midwest, at the urging of a Chief actually. Not sure the party but either way it makes sense to run CAFS, puts more fire out more quickly than anything else I've used hands on. Some are backing off from the maintenance standpoint (as in their people don't do proper maintenance) but that's a personnel issue, not a technical/operations issue. Just like a router: in some hands it makes heirloom furniture, in others it just makes sawdust and in both cases it ain't the tool's place to take credit or blame.

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