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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Unhappy End of the Russian Navy by 2010?

    Retired admiral says Russia losing its navy

    By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV, Associated Press Writer

    Friday, November 27, 2009 (11-27) 05:12 PST MOSCOW, Russia (AP)

    Russia's once-mighty navy faces further dramatic decline after 2015, when most Soviet-built ships will have to be mothballed, a retired admiral was quoted as saying Friday.

    The warning follows comments by Russian officials they were planning to buy a French amphibious assault warship able to carry at least a dozen helicopters or to land forces.

    Russia currently has no big ship with the power to anchor off coast and deploy troops onto land. With the likely decommissioning of other aging warships, distant deployments would be impossible, Retired Adm. Vyacheslav Popov said in remarks carried by RIA Novosti news agency.

    "If things remain as they are, we will have to mothball most ocean warships by 2015," Popov was quoted as saying. "That will sharply reduce the navy's capability," which he said was now five to six times less than Britain's or France's, and 20-30 times smaller than the U.S. Navy's.

    Popov and other retired military officers have described the Russian navy as being in a pitiful state ó a sharp contrast to the Kremlin's attempts to flex military muscle abroad.

    Russia has sent warships to patrol pirate-infested waters off Somalia, and in 2008 dispatched a navy squadron to the Caribbean for joint maneuvers with the Venezuelan navy and for several port calls.

    But Popov, a former Northern Fleet chief who is now a member of parliament's upper house, warned that the navy would only be capable of acting near Russian shores after 2015.

    Only a handful of big surface ships, such as missile cruisers and destroyers, remain seaworthy, after Russia failed to commission new ships and properly maintain Soviet-built ones amid the post-Soviet economic meltdown in the 1990s. The flow of petrodollars in the 2000s failed to reverse the navy's fortunes.

    Popov said that, despite increased military budgets, the government has failed to allocate money for building new warships or even maintaining the old ones.

    In the last decade, the navy had commissioned only one relatively small surface warship, he said. Its single Soviet-built aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, is much smaller than U.S. aircraft carriers and has been plagued by mechanical problems and accidents.

    Russia has been in talks with France about a possible purchase of a Mistral-class assault ship and building several others under license ó a deal military leaders say will allow Russia to import new Western technologies and modernize its industries.

    Russia's struggling shipbuilders oppose the purchase, arguing that instead of buying a French warship the government should invest in domestic production. A shipyard in Severodvinsk has tried for years to fulfill an order to modernize a Soviet-built aircraft carrier for India and sought to swell a contract price.

    It's true enough that us Westerners used to face off against the Russian Bear on land, sea and in the air, and played silly games for days on end. To see a navy, any navy go into disrepair is a sad thing. Inspite of political differences, the Russian Navy is just as old and full of tradition as any other in the world. Take away the politics and a Sailor is Just a Sailor, no matter what language he/she speaks! And you can't be a sailor without a ship.


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    No mention whatsoever about the most important part of the Russian Navy. The Submarines. They are the only thing that threatens the US.

    We should sell them some old carriers. Most of the Carriers we decommision are still in great shape. And we know everything about them as well as their weaknesses. So they would not really be any threat to us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    We should sell them some old carriers. Most of the Carriers we decommision are still in great shape. And we know everything about them as well as their weaknesses. So they would not really be any threat to us.
    Sea-mobile aircraft are ALWAYS a threat.

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    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    No mention whatsoever about the most important part of the Russian Navy. The Submarines. They are the only thing that threatens the US.
    Frigates, destroyers, amphibious assault ships, cruisers, and aircraft carriers either alone or in a Carrier Battle Group, or Amphibious Ready Group, pose a threat. Ships can launch cruise missiles, torpedoes, etc., at any shipping or land-based targets. Any vessel afloat threatens our nation whether it be military or civilian if times are contentious.

    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    We should sell them some old carriers. Most of the Carriers we decommision are still in great shape. And we know everything about them as well as their weaknesses.
    We should not sell them our old carriers. Let them build their own. Our aircraft built for the Navy are steam launched using a catapult system - have been since the 1950s. No other navy has this, and it allows for such massive airframes as the since-retired F-14 to launch in 200 feet. Why in the hell would anyone want to sell the JFK, America, Carl Vinson, etc..., to any nation? Especially Russia - given the relative instability in the nation, and our own tenuous political relationship with them? Additionally, almost every carrier the U.S. has built since the U.S.S. Enterprise (1961) has been nuclear powered. Are you suggesting that we give away our own national secrets to a less-than-friendly nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    So they would not really be any threat to us.
    Hmmmmmmmmmmm. This is the same thinking that got us into trouble with the Japanese in the 1940s. This is the same thinking that got Europe into trouble in the 1930s. Any nation with a viable and sea-worthy navy poses a threat to us and any other nation they have a desire to harass or invade (i.e. Russia and its incursions into Georgia. Since history has a way of repeating itself, why would you want to tempt fate?
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    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    We should not sell them our old carriers. Let them build their own. Our aircraft built for the Navy are steam launched using a catapult system - have been since the 1950s. Why in the hell would anyone want to sell the JFK, America, Carl Vinson, etc..., to any nation? ?
    I am pretty sure the new carriers catapaults are electro-mechanical. And it would be kind of hard to sell them the America!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I am pretty sure the new carriers catapaults are electro-mechanical. And it would be kind of hard to sell them the America!
    The currently commissioned carriers of the Nimitz-class are all equipped with steam powered catapults.

    electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) will be on the CVN-78 which is a new class that is still under construction.

    In any event, it's sad to see a navy with such tradition reduced to its current state.
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    What tradition?Of stealing technologies from other nations?The reason the Russian Navy is even considered a power is that they'd have agents steal technology and adapt it to their own uses,not always successfully.
    The Akula(Shark) class SSN is supposed to be equal to the early Los Angeles class SSNs of the USN and the Akulas are STILL easily detected on sonar and by other means.
    While it has been policy to NOT sell designs of aircraft carriers to other nations to prevent them from finding any weak spots,I am not so sure that there WON'T be a President who hates his country so much that he would only see the money being offered and not the danger such a sale would pose to US sailors.

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    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Actually, Doug, I think what Voyager was meaning is that Russia had a navy somewhat before the USA was even born. Peter The Great was the first "Admiral" of the Russian navy, and built a very fine and viable service. Its only been the past 100 years or so that things have really gone down hill.
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    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    What tradition?Of stealing technologies from other nations?The reason the Russian Navy is even considered a power is that they'd have agents steal technology and adapt it to their own uses,not always successfully.
    The Akula(Shark) class SSN is supposed to be equal to the early Los Angeles class SSNs of the USN and the Akulas are STILL easily detected on sonar and by other means.
    While it has been policy to NOT sell designs of aircraft carriers to other nations to prevent them from finding any weak spots,I am not so sure that there WON'T be a President who hates his country so much that he would only see the money being offered and not the danger such a sale would pose to US sailors.
    Well, to be fair espionage was a huge focus of both sides of the Cold War (and really every war). Either way this is more of a political effort and does not reflect on the sailors on the front lines. While not seen in the same vein as the British or Spanish Navy's of olde the Russians have always had a rich naval history so I believe my statement holds true.

    I do agree that it wouldn't make sense to sell anyone our modern military assets. Our track record on that is rather bad. Hell, we were about to sell Destroyers to the Shah.
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    I do agree that it wouldn't make sense to sell anyone our modern military assets. Our track record on that is rather bad. Hell, we were about to sell Destroyers to the Shah.
    That was one of Jimmy Earl Carter's doings,along with believing his Secretary of State thinking that the Ayatolla Khoemeni was "a saint" and set events that lead to the fall of the Shah and the takeover of the US Embassy in Tehran.The sale was scrapped when the Shah left Iran and the ships were kind of forced on the USN which didn't really want the AAW mods to the Spruance class at the time.
    BTW,the Kidd class is also known as the "Dead Admirals Class".Every one of the officers the ships are named for died in combat.

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