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  1. #21
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Yeah, like I said about the internet, it's a wonderful thing. From the "Rules and Regulations" of Explorer Post #945, you might be familiar with these....I draw your attention to section 7, part 1, sub-section D

    Now, why are we arguing about under-18 year olds being allowed at the station overnight?
    What MY dept allows is equally as irrelevent as what your department allows to this kid. I don't know why you don't understand that concept. And yes I am familiar with them, because I wrote them.

    Once again, an planned explorer overnight event is not working. It is a BSA overnight event. Which is not the same. You do not know what you're talking about. And yes, our town knows how it works, our insurance carrier knows how it works, and the BSA insurance knows how it works. Thank you for your concern.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.


  2. #22
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Once again, an planned explorer overnight event is not working. It is a BSA overnight event. Which is not the same. You do not know what you're talking about.
    Um, no I think it is you who does not know what you are talking about, either that or you forgot that you mentioned explicitly "As per Conneticut State Law" or something like that in the rules......

    So which is it- the BSA's regs, or your Department (State of Ct's) regulations????
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  3. #23
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    So, if you don't think Explorers should spend the night at a fire station, your gonna hate this!

    Post 53 News Story

    Post 53 Web Site

    I know, not a Fire Department, but still......

  4. #24
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Um, no I think it is you who does not know what you are talking about, either that or you forgot that you mentioned explicitly "As per Conneticut State Law" or something like that in the rules......

    So which is it- the BSA's regs, or your Department (State of Ct's) regulations????
    Because a boy scout overnight event is different than "working". Am I speaking a foreign language? What you are reading is normal operating rules. Not an overnight event. I was in the boy scouts my entire youth. I was an explorer after that. And I run this explorer program now. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. Especially since you freely admitted you don't know anything about BSA stuff.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  5. #25
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Because a boy scout overnight event is different than "working". Am I speaking a foreign language? What you are reading is normal operating rules. Not an overnight event. I was in the boy scouts my entire youth. I was an explorer after that. And I run this explorer program now. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. Especially since you freely admitted you don't know anything about BSA stuff.
    Then why even have section 7, part 1, sub-section D in your Rules and Regs??? Are you saying that you are using the BSA to circumnavigate your own rules? That's responsible of you.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  6. #26
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Oh my god. This is like talking to a wall.

    Normal operations are what you are reading. If the Explorer Post decides to schedule an overnight event as allowed by the BSA, that is not normal operating. It would be no different that camping at a local campground. It requires addition BSA paperwork known as a "tour permit" among other things. It is a planned scheduled event.

    If you still can't comprehend this, I'm not going to spend any more of my time repeating myself to someone who doesn't care. That is how it works. If you don't like it, don't come here.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  7. #27
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    If you still can't comprehend this, I'm not going to spend any more of my time repeating myself to someone who doesn't care.
    I do care, thats why I am arguing about it. Once again, children have no business being in a firehouse after hours responding to emergencies. I will cease from further comment.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  8. #28
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    None of the Explorer posts I've been associated with have allowed overnight ride alongs. Not because of state law or Explorer rules. I've read those relatively carefully and as explorer's, they are not employees of the Fire Department, they are covered by the BSA's insurance and have the appropriate waivers signed before they are allowed to touch a fire apparatus.

    We've never allowed them for overnight shifts due to the inability for them to be properly supervised after the crews go to sleep. I'm not saying that they are automatically less responsible than the actual fire crews working,(truth be told I trust some of the explorers to stay out of trouble more that some of our firefighters and that's one of the scary problems of non firefighters in the firehouse) but sooooo many things can go wrong when you have people in the firehouse at night.

    I recognize that many people feel differently than I do and I respect that, but as a station captain, I don't want that extra responsibility. There are very few good things for an explorer to do at 01:30 in the morning at the firehouse.

    Both of the departments I have worked for specifically outlawed any visitors in the firehouse after 22:00 hrs, unless they are paramedic students from our local school which means that they are sworn firefighters from ours or a neighboring fire department. Just my 2 cents.

    But take full advantage of the rest of the great things that the post offers. We have hired many of our past explorers on our department and they have done very well. (Remember, that if a huge stink is made over this, some of the captains and other leaders in the department may be the ones on the hiring boards later. So be very very careful in how passionate you get with those opposing your view!)

    Good luck and keep working toward the goal of getting hired for life!

  9. #29
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    Cool Explorers Overnight.....

    The Departments I have worked for allow it, but there are very specific conditions that MUST be met. Some of the conditions are: Must be over 18, the C.O. (Career) must be made aware, there are no mixed sex (meaning males and females sleeping together) sleeping arrangements, all Advisors must be at a minimum 2 Advisors to 1 Explorer, there is a specific "Level" that the Explorer must achieve (there are 3 Levels of Explorers) and there are other conditions also.

    As far as a weekday vs. a weekend issue, I am not aware of any issues like that. If our Explorers start having an attendance problem at School, we'll set up an apointment with the parents and if needed the Guidance Counselor and get the problem corrected or it's "out ya go....."

    Also, please correct me if I'm wrong. Learning for Life is it's own entity and is no longer under Boys Scouts of America. My understanding is this is how it operates, so I don't want to have misinformation. So if my understanding of the Program is wrong please help correct me.

    Thanks.....
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

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    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

  10. #30
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Mikey, you are mostly on the right track. Two adults are required, not a two-to-one ratio which would be complete overkill. If there are female explorers, there should be a female adult. Learning for Life (Explorers) is part of the BSA still. They just changed the name for some reason. I've never heard of any kind of "levels".

    The weeknight/weekend time limits are not a BSA rule. Those are all either department policies or state child labor laws. In my state, it is 10pm for 15-16 year olds and midnight for 17-18yr olds. The state made those last year. Prior to that, we only restricted them to 10pm on school nights. Any other night, they could respond at any time of the night. I think the state making that rule is stupid for a number of very logical reasons. But they're the state and of course they know best...

    With all of that said, we're volunteer and do not do overnight staffing. So the time restrictions simply limit them from responding to calls like everyone else does.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    I've never heard of any kind of "levels".
    I would assume that the levels he is referring to are internal. They probably have different training requirements for each level after witch they get to do more stuff.

  12. #32
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    Our junior firefighters are allowed to ride out overnight as much as they wish.

    If grades become an issued, they are not allowed to participate in any activities.

    That being said, most parents do not allow thier junior to ride-out if they are attending school the next day.

  13. #33
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    I started out as an Explorer. I'm now fully certified, and have a lot to be thankful for because of this particular BSA program. My dept is in Texas so I'm not sure how are laws differ from ya'lls. But the way the Dept. ran the program was a long as you didn't have school you were allowed to spend the night. You had to have the shift officer's permission (along with parental permission) before you could stay. They didn't let new explorers stay over night, because they didn't know anything as far as truck equipment. When the firefighters went to bed, so did you. We didn't have any female firefighters and we only had 2 female explorers, and they didn't stay over night.

    I love the program, I would like to be able to have one at my dept one day that I could be in charge of, or just help out. Looking back, I'm not so sure it is a good idea for kids to be at a firehouse over night, but on the other hand there are many bad things other than riding to calls at night that they could be doing. With all the liability these days, I wouldn't want that responsibility of worrying about them for a 24 hour shift. BUT, I learned a lot from my time as an explorer. Had a good time doing it, and it helped me out in my career, and still continues to. Just my 2 cents worth.

  14. #34
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    I was an explorer for 4 years before i became a firefighter and held positions of captain asst chief and chief. We were allowed to stay overnight at the house. This was used as a chance to go over the trucks and learn from couple firefighters that would stay with us. We were not allowed to go on calls after dark due to the fact that its hard for the firefighters to see and keep track of explorers.

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