1. #1
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    Default Am I doing too much? Not enough?

    Hi all - New to the forums here and what a great place to be. I'm going thru the very first steps of getting hired on with a local department and am currently awaiting my date for my PAT. My question pretains pretty much to my workout schedule ..... I lift three times a week and run no less than 2 miles on my non-lifting days. The days I lift, I do three cycles of jumping jacks and pushups (20 of each and repeated 3 times) as my warmup. From there I move to bench press (my max is only 210 for now), tricep curls, bicep curls, shoulders, and back. i try to do stair work atleast 5 times a week by holding 20 lb dumbells in each hand and going up and down stairs continuous for 5 minutes.

    Am i lifting too much too often? I understand I am probably the only one that can answer that based upon how i feel, but was just wondering if im not spacing out my lifting days enough if that makes sense?

    thanks for your help!

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    Try crossfit. Go to crossfit.com and follow the daily workouts.


    Reason being is, most all crossfit workouts are time based. As with the cpat. Crossfit will really test if youve been training right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by csvt18 View Post
    Try crossfit. Go to crossfit.com and follow the daily workouts.


    Reason being is, most all crossfit workouts are time based. As with the cpat. Crossfit will really test if youve been training right.
    will do and thanks for the info. much appreciated.

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    hey firefuss - thanks so much for the breakdown - i think im going to mimic your routine! to answer your question, yes im working those same muscle groups the three days i do lift...after seeing your schedule it looks like im not doing the schedule correct.

    your info really helps and thanks so much for the feeedback!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefuss View Post
    Yup. I always laugh when I see people talk about crossfit or p90x and all other kind of workouts. They're always like, "I never got any results at the gym, but with XXX program, it worked right away". I always ask what they did at the gym, and they always give me a breakdown of some workout or two. Its always similar, every muscle group in a day, or half one day half another. Same workout over and over, and NO RESULTS. NO S#!T. That workout I posted is ONE variation of my routine. If I do that exact routine on week, I won't do it again exactly for at least a month, maybe two! I change when I use barbells or dumbells. I change the order of the exercises. Heck, sometimes I switch and do chest Monday, back Tuesday, shoulders Wednesday, arms Thursday, and legs Friday. The reason these things are getting so much attention is the "muscle confusion" crap that each one claims they discovered. I don't doubt they work well for an out of shape guy who needs to tone up a little and lose weight. I just think strength training along with a form of cardio works best.

    So again, let me emphasize, make sure to change things up. At one time, I printed my chest and back workouts on small pieces of paper and pulled them from a hat. I'd pull a chest exercise then a back one, and superset them together. Then I'd pull the next two. It kept me from falling into the same ole workout thing, which is where people get stuck.

    Good luck
    Crossfit is the real deal. Im telling you. You can try it and see if you can even do the workouts as RX'd, which no offense, but I bet you wont be able to. Even after the above posted workout, you wont be able to.

    Any dummy knows to switch up their routine, due to hitting plateus, which stops your progress overall. Your body adapts... which is why crossfit is constantly changing.

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    What firefuss said is good advice, i do something similiar to that. I usually just superset muscles once a month though.

    Heres a typical day, ill use a Chest/Tri day for example

    Chest:
    Flat bench: 10 8 6 (adding 20 lbs each set)
    Incline dumbell: 10 8 6 (going up 5 lbs each side)
    Machine flys: 8 8 8 (Pick a weight where you can just barely finish the 8th rep)
    Flat dumbell: 10 8 6 (going up 5 lbs each side)
    Dips: As many as you can, 3 sets.
    Flat dumbell individual rotating arms: 8 each arm, 3 sets. For these, ill come down with my thumbs facing in, and as you press up, rotate your arm so your thumbs face out.

    Tri's:
    Push downs: 10 10 10
    Skull crushers: 8 8 8
    Single arm pushdowns: 10 10 10
    French press: 8 8 8

    The key to picking the weights and exercises is making sure you are working your muscles to failure. If you leave the gym feeling like you can workout some more, you havent done enough.
    "You haven't lived until you've found something worth dying for."

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefuss View Post
    HAHAHAHAHAHAA

    I've done this at work before, and I've done the P90X at work also. I would never have said it sucked without knowing it did. People are saying so loudly "this is perfect for firefighting!" But why? you do a bunch of jumbled up non specific exercises as many times as you can in 20 minutes. Yea, I know a lot of firefighters need to lose weight, and that might be all this does for them. All this stuff does is use your whole body to do cardio rather than running or swimming or biking ect ect.

    Also, I never said just to change workouts when you hit PLATEAU. The routine I posted up there I might do once a month. I never do the same workouts in the same order. I'm 29, and I've been doing this since way before all these "muscle confusion" GIMMICKS came out.

    I'd like to ask why you'd think I wouldn't be able to complete these workouts. Had I posted the weights I use on those workouts you might not have even posted your comment. Judging from your assumptions on me I'd put money on it that I've forgotten more about working out than you actually know. I've been doing it 4-5 days a week for almost every week since I was 17, and Im 29 now. I don't for one second doubt the advantage I have over more than most in this job due specifically to the workouts I do. So in reply to your idiotic post, why don't you try really working out in a gym. Not doing a ROUTINE over and over. Mine is more than likely to intense for you so you'll have to make up your own. Good luck with that
    Buddy, wack one off and calm down. Please. Im simply offering advice to a guy who has never done crossfit. Sure, its legs and cardio WITH upper body as well, but what does the CPAT demand? Legs and cardio... What do ACADEMIES demand? Legs and cardio. I NEVER said you couldnt follow your OWN workouts along with crossfit. Do your chest, back, arms, etc. after crossfit.. Its what I do.. So back off.

    Im 6'0", 185 lbs, and most likely in the same shape, if not better shape than yourself. Maybe the dude hasnt been working out as long as us, so what? Im offering my OPINION and advice on what he asked.
    Last edited by csvt18; 12-14-2009 at 04:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefuss View Post
    I think the schedule you are on is good, its what I do also. On your lifting days are you doing ALL your muscle groups? If so try something like this...

    MONDAY, Chest and Back (all supersets, do the chest exercise then the back, then rest)

    Flat bench 10 8 8 6
    Wide pull-ups 10 10 10 10 (as many as you can up to 10)

    Incline dumbell press 10 8 8 6
    chin-ups 10 10 10 10 (as many as you can up to 10)

    Dips (keeping your chin to your chest and knees up)
    10 10 10 10
    Cable rows 10 8 8 6

    dumbell flys 10 10 8 8
    1 hand dumbell rows 10 10 8 8

    Tuesday Run, if you use a track do increment running. Such as jog a lap then run a lap, only do a steady "jog day" once a week, the other time mix it up

    WEDNESDAY Shoulders and Arms (TRIPLE-SETS)

    Close grip bench press 10 10 8 6
    Standing barbell curls 10 10 8 8
    Shoulder shrugs 10 10 8 6

    Skull crushers 10 10 8 6
    Preacher bench curls 10 10 8 6
    Lateral Raises 10 10 8 8

    Machine pressdowns 10 10 8 6
    Machine curls 10 10 8 6
    Upright rows 10 10 8 8

    Kick backs 10 10 8 8
    alternating dumbell curls 10 10 8 8
    wide grip cable rows 10 10 8 8

    THURSDAY running, like I said before, on one of your two running days, just jog steadily for a good 4-5 miles, or at least work toward that. On the other running day, do less mileage, but alternate between running and jogging. It doesn't matter what day you do what, just change it up.

    FRIDAY legs the only day NOT to superset.

    Squats (if you've neve done them, START DOING THEM! Squats are the best thing for anyone to develop your quads.)

    Warm up a lot, at least 2 sets of 20, then squat what you can for 5 sets, 12 12 10 10 8

    Make sure you go down all the way to where your thighs are parallel to the ground, NOT going all the way will not get you any results worth anything. WORK for it

    Machine squats Go heavy right away, stick to low reps on the machine after doing regular squats to really feel it in your legs

    Do weight where you can almost get 10 reps, then add some, you want 4-5 sets with 8-10 reps each. Make sure you go all the way down here too, and don't put your hands on your knees to help push, there are hand grips for a reason

    Lunges Hold a pair of dumbells while standing, step forward and lower your rear knee ALMOST to the ground, make sure your front knee DOES NOT go farther forward than your front foot, or you're doing it wrong. Come back up focusing the pull in your rear leg, then alternate.

    Do 8 to 10 sets of these with dumbells heavy enought that you only get 10-12 reps per set

    Leg Curl Machine

    You can do 1 leg at a time or both together on this machine. I like 1 at a time, just feels better

    5 sets with 10-12 reps per set

    Calves Don't be like most and over work your calves with 20 sets of 100 reps. They are a muscle, they get tired and need rest. They are used to high repetition from you walking around so we have to shake em up with high weight and LOW reps.

    Do something like this, put A LOT of weight on a calve machine. Then do what I call devil calves... cause of 6 6 6

    point your toes IN and do 6 reps (if you can do more, put more weight on till you just get 6) then point your toes STRAIGHT and do 6, then point them OUT and do a final 6. Try and get 4 or 5 sets of that in.

    I do this same routine on every piece of equipment you can use to do calves at my gym. So I end up doing the 6 6 6 thing like 20 times, just adjust the weight so that you just get 6 each time.

    Thats pretty much what I do each week
    Firefuss, your workout seems to be typical for a bodybuilder. Maybe you are a Jersey Shores guy, and think that these workouts are the only way to go.
    Another poster mentioned crossfit workouts, which you state you can easily do.
    Maybe, but I'd like to watch.
    Your workouts lack "real world" strength gainers, except for some sqauts and lunges.

    You run a couple times a week.
    When do you get high intensity training from these workouts?
    When you do your skull crushers, or cable kickbacks?
    I'm going to guess that you have very well defined triceps, but that's not the goal of crossfit, and it shouldn't be the goal of most workout plans.
    You have listed a very typical bodybuilder workout, found in most steroid/whackoff mags.
    Try doing more explosive exercises. Try some clean and jerks, deadlifts,etc.
    Get you heartrate over 100 (which would never happen to me doing your workout).

    A typical house fire involves 10-20 minutes of extreme effort, with heartrates often in the 90-100% max range. This has been tested numerous times.
    Get your body acclimated to doing this.
    Your workout won't do it, crossfit will.

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    honestly you are lifting to much, most fires are put out in 15 mins. you need to learn to explode and i am not talking about with weights. Your cardio system needs to go hard for 15 min straight. Your running will not do it or will your stairs unless you are doing intervals with sprinting. Take care

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    Quote Originally Posted by flipper123 View Post
    Firefuss, your workout seems to be typical for a bodybuilder. Maybe you are a Jersey Shores guy, and think that these workouts are the only way to go.
    Another poster mentioned crossfit workouts, which you state you can easily do.
    Maybe, but I'd like to watch.
    Your workouts lack "real world" strength gainers, except for some sqauts and lunges.

    You run a couple times a week.
    When do you get high intensity training from these workouts?
    When you do your skull crushers, or cable kickbacks?
    I'm going to guess that you have very well defined triceps, but that's not the goal of crossfit, and it shouldn't be the goal of most workout plans.
    You have listed a very typical bodybuilder workout, found in most steroid/whackoff mags.
    Try doing more explosive exercises. Try some clean and jerks, deadlifts,etc.
    Get you heartrate over 100 (which would never happen to me doing your workout).

    A typical house fire involves 10-20 minutes of extreme effort, with heartrates often in the 90-100% max range. This has been tested numerous times.
    Get your body acclimated to doing this.
    Your workout won't do it, crossfit will.
    Thank you very much... finally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogEater View Post
    honestly you are lifting to much, most fires are put out in 15 mins. you need to learn to explode and i am not talking about with weights. Your cardio system needs to go hard for 15 min straight. Your running will not do it or will your stairs unless you are doing intervals with sprinting. Take care
    thanks for the input - i actually started incorporating a new workout for my running, as jogging on a treadmill staring at a wall for an hour straight got pretty boring. 5 minute jog with 10 lb dumbells followed by a mintue of sprinting, then a minute of jogging, minute of sprinting, minute of jogging, etc. then the last 5mins of my workout, i try to go all out and sprint.

    keep in mind im somewhat new at this workout thing lol.

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    Cool workout

    as a peer fitness instructor I promote an overall body approach to workouts. Too many times muscular imbalances are created by isolating muscle groups. ALso, keep in mind that the chest/tri's, back/bi's then legs on separate days came from the bodybuilding mind set where your goal was to build mass and spend lots of time on each area. Mass/size does not necessarily equate to overall efficiency of the body and can actually detract from performance and can result in injuries. I am not saying not to take that approach, just be aware of the pros and cons to any workout.
    As a PT and a FF I see way too many injuries occuring due to muscular imbalances and lack of range of motion, the big guys are getting hurt by things that shouldn't touch them. An overall/functional type of approach includes all the components of fitness: strength and power, endurance (respiratory and muscular) balance and agility, range of motion, loaded movement in all directions. When we perform our job it entails the entire body and for prolonged period of time; so 6-8 reps of isolated exercises doesn't translate to the job. You can do these exercises but intermix multijoint/planar movements. ALso you can get all muscle groups/cardio and ROM in 45 min or less.

    shoot me your email and I can send you a workout I put on at the Redmond symposium last week, the guys/gals that took it really enjoyed it.

    Not knocking other ideas, just adding to your toolbox

    Orlando Gomez
    Portland Fire & rescue
    orlyg1521@gmail.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by ogomez View Post
    as a peer fitness instructor I promote an overall body approach to workouts. Too many times muscular imbalances are created by isolating muscle groups. ALso, keep in mind that the chest/tri's, back/bi's then legs on separate days came from the bodybuilding mind set where your goal was to build mass and spend lots of time on each area. Mass/size does not necessarily equate to overall efficiency of the body and can actually detract from performance and can result in injuries. I am not saying not to take that approach, just be aware of the pros and cons to any workout.
    As a PT and a FF I see way too many injuries occuring due to muscular imbalances and lack of range of motion, the big guys are getting hurt by things that shouldn't touch them. An overall/functional type of approach includes all the components of fitness: strength and power, endurance (respiratory and muscular) balance and agility, range of motion, loaded movement in all directions. When we perform our job it entails the entire body and for prolonged period of time; so 6-8 reps of isolated exercises doesn't translate to the job. You can do these exercises but intermix multijoint/planar movements. ALso you can get all muscle groups/cardio and ROM in 45 min or less.

    shoot me your email and I can send you a workout I put on at the Redmond symposium last week, the guys/gals that took it really enjoyed it.

    Not knocking other ideas, just adding to your toolbox

    Orlando Gomez
    Portland Fire & rescue
    orlyg1521@gmail.com
    thanks much for the info and insight Orlando - email is on the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefuss View Post
    If you didnt notice, every exercise i do is either superseted or triseted with little or no rest between sets. I do my average chest/back workout in about 35 or 40 minutes and EVERy bit of it is intense. I am not a "jersey shore" guy nor am I anything like a "body builder".
    Call it what you will, but your workout is a body-builder workout.
    You do standing barbell curls, preacher curls, machine curls, and dumbell curls in one workout. That's not a bodybuilder workout?
    Here's the website that owes you an apology then, because they do the same routine for KILLER BICEPS!!
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/brewster11.htm


    I do compound lifts like dead lifts and clean and jerks.
    Funny, you don't mention that anywhere in your killer workout.

    Also, i don't know where you work,, but there is no typical house fire. I've been on jobs that went from fully involed to complpetely extinguished in 4 minutes, and others that showed with light smoke that ended up being an hour long service. There is NO training for typical stuff in my opinion.
    True, there is no such thing as a typical house fire. I apologize for my vague statement.
    Your training that you recommend, however, has zero to do with firefighting, or passing the CPAT (the reason for the OP's question, by the way).Your training has alot to do with doing reps in front of a mirror, in a gym with lot's of chrome and potted plants, surrounded by guys wearing baby-gap sized t-shirts with spray on tans. Your plan focuses on isolation exercises, like your bicep routine, that have little to zero application in real life. And as OGOMEZ stated nicely, will often lead to imbalance injuries. (you might wanna listen to his advice by the way).

    I train to be strong, to be able to help myself and others if need be, and to be the go to guy when my capt needs something taken care of. The "wack off" statements are uncalled for and show your immaturity. If you're just here to argue a point **** off, otherwise put some facts together and prove why this is so popular other than being a fad.
    Hey, I never said you wack off; I said your workouts come from wackoff mags.
    I don't know what "fad" you're talking about. The concept behind high-intensity full body workouts has been around for decades. (look up dinosaur training on google).

    Also, you say you'd like to see me do crossfit... you say you wouldn't break a pulse of 100 on my routine. HA, supersets chum, no rest. Do 1 set of chest, then back, then change the weight and go again. The only rest you get is walking back and forth between sets. I am usually aroud 100-110 for the whole workout, and that is the point.
    If you consider your "superset" routine to be stressful, you've made my point for me.

    You go ahead and workout for that "typical" house fire that always comes out. I'll train for the one where crap happens no one expects.
    You're right on 1 point I guess- if the next house fire you go to involves doing single arm kickbacks during the fire, you're gonna be a hero.

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    JetGuy-
    I found it very helpful to work out on the equipment used for the CPAT, if you can. When I took it I noticed some people who were in very good shape struggle on test day. Just because they had not practiced on the same types of equipment. We had one guy who was in really good shape nearly crash and burn on the stair mill even though he had stair stepped a lot, he really struggled to get through the test. If you don't have access to the same types of equipment do your best to imitate it. If you will be using a step mill on test day you need to find one. I had been doing my best to imitate the course, making it a little harder, so that test day would seem easy. This really paid off for me test day; I finished first in the class even though I was probably in the bottom half for overall fitness. Not that I am saying I recommend not being overall fit, clearly overall fitness is important, just suggestions for getting through the test.

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    If functionality is key to your work out...... cut out 90% of it.

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    Try it, I hope you can. I'm sure if my slack involves calf raises and skull crushers you'll do great.

    I'll just enjoy compound exercises which work the body similar to what firefighting requires.

    Just for ****s and giggles, do you tan way too much and wear a speedo?

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    No, I'm a school bus driver. And functionally strong one at that. Sorry, didn't realize you were were anti body builder, guess i was just preacher curling to the choir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefuss View Post
    Wow, you must be really smart. I've never seen such a rebuttal with so many facts..... oh wait. You just quoted what I sad, and say the opposite is right because it's a "bodybuilder" workout. I guess anyone who goes to the gym and does curls is a body builder? Isolating a muscle group to strengthen it has no real world advantage. If you read the post, I said that is ONE workout I might do once in ONE OR TWO MONTHS.
    The following are quotes from your post, feel free to double check:

    "Thats pretty much what I do each week"

    which isn't ONE workout once in ONE or TWO months.

    Unless, you work out one week once month.


    "I do plenty of compound movements. More so than I do anything else actually. "

    Compound:
    Flat bench
    Squats (which you only mention after machine squats.........wtf dude, machine squats? really?)

    Isolation:
    Dips
    Cable rows
    dumbell flys
    1 hand dumbell rows
    Close grip bench press
    Standing barbell curls
    Shoulder shrugs
    Skull crushers
    Preacher bench curls
    Lateral Raises
    Machine pressdowns
    Machine curls
    Upright rows
    Kick backs
    alternating dumbell curls
    wide grip cable rows
    Leg curls
    and calves.


    So instead of being ****y and bent out of shape, explain how its either NOT a predominately isolation plan or how you can do it each week but it be a rare instance


    And I know I came off harsh but if you have something truly profound to teach me, I'm all ears. It just seems really contradictory, either you do it or you don't, either all you do is isolation or you don't.

    And to bring up another point, a football player works his whole body as one, because thats what he uses, a sprinter is the same. You will never walk into a high school (if supervised), college, or professional team weight room and see them adding preacher curls, calve raises, or cable flys into a routine.

    It's high weight, low rep. Granted, before you fly off the handle, there will be mixtures of the two routines, but do you really think a lineman will care about doing inverted crunches? No, but I think he would benefit from some clean and jerk, that movement is very similar to the movements he makes in the game.

    Functional.
    Strength.


    And no, I don't drink the crossfit coolaid, but it does help.

    Was the crossfit work out you did entitled "rest day"?

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    I know I'm probably going to get flamed off the forums for saying this...but in all honesty...the OP hasn't even responded in quite some time now. It appears what was a guy asking for help turned out to be a "mines bigger" contest. Shouldn't working out and getting in to OVERALL better shape be the goal here? Some people do it in the gym, some people do it with P90X, or with crossfit. I'm not a paid firefighter yet, been a volly for 4 years, I lifted on competition level until going back to school and working full time in a dispatch center. My personal opinion..do what works. I do crossfit, and work out in a "metal head" gym, meaning there are no cardio bunnies, no jackasses doing curls in the smith machine, and no guy walking around on the cell phone talking about how wasted he got last night. All of that type of crap can be left at the 24 hr fitness where I left my trial membership years ago. Everyone has a different mental, genetic make up. My body didn't respond to just working in the gym 5 days a week. It responded to HIIT, kettleball training, my weekly judo sessions, AND the gym. I know it's asking for a lot, but what about just giving an opinion and leaving it at that. We're all entitled to ours. One person can say crossfit is the be all end all, the other person can say if you're not in a gym 80 hours a week you're a pansy, who cares? To each their own. Get fit, that's the be all end all of working out. Any way possible, whatever works. /rant

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    hey boy, we dont take kindly to reasonable thought round here.

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    I am going to end this my bicep is bigger than your glutes debate right now...

    No one here is as strong as me. No one. I've even included my most recent pic
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Co 11
    Virginia Beach FD

    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

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