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  1. #1
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    Question Fire Station Boots and Explorers doing CPR?

    Hello. I am a 15 year old Fire Explorer. I'm considering purchasing a pair of "station boots" for when I go to Explorer meetings and ride-outs. I'm hoping to find some reccomendations.

    Here is a list of some of my preferences:

    1. Black (duh!)

    2. MUST be slip-on (no laces) ... or if they have laces, they MUST have zipper. (That's to ensure quick turnout times.)

    3. They do NOT have to be "fancy" brands like 5.11 or Bates...and I would like to spend under $70 bucks or so.

    4. Also, I would like something that could be found in a store. I'm not a fan of ordering shoes on-line as they sometimes run small/big/wide/etc.

    5. Boots. Not shoes. Not 6" ones. Real. Boots. Please.

    ...whew! I'm picky, eh?

    Any suggestions?

    _________________________________________________

    Another question is this:

    Our department allows explorers to ride along on Medic units. We are allowed to do things like spike the IV bags, get vitals, document vitals, radio in patient reports, and carry stuff. However, I noticed today after reading our Explorer's SOP, we are allowed to do CPR to!

    All Explorers have up-to-date, AHA CPR certs. So...my questions are:

    1. Do you think this is a good idea? Does your Explorer Post allow this?

    2. Normally, there will be 3 FF/EMT-P's in the back on a CPR. It's crowded enough the way it is. If the lead FF/EMT-P replaced a FF/EMT-P that was riding in with them with an explorer...wouldn't that really take away some "helping hands"? Then again, wouldn't 4 people be a TON of people in a meatwagon?

    ...feel free to add anything else you want.

    If I (personally) elect not to do CPR while en route to a hospital, I would obviously sit up front. However, doing CPR is something we're trained in and I WOULD like to do it some day. How about asking the Officer when I get to the station if I can do CPR on scene rather than en-route?


    Also...any tips on doing CPR while the patient is being rolled to the ambulance on a stretcher?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Go to a Redwings store. Most will give you a FF discount.

    CPR... can't imagine that this would be a great idea (having an Explorer do CPR on patient) I could only imagine the potential for lawsuit.

    Tips on CPR on a stretcher rolling... CPR would be ineffective, better to move quickly and start again once loaded.

  3. #3
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    Can't offer advice on boots since I don't wear them.

    As far as the ems/cpr thing goes, I think you should do whatever is needed within the scope of you abilities and as allowed by the crew. Feel free to offer your help and follow the direction of the crew. Whether you are the one doing a component of CPR or just helping with other odds and ends, it doesn't matter.

    As for if I think it is ok? Of course it is ok. If your rules allow it and your crew allows it, and patient needs it, then knock yourself out. We have explorers that got their EMT before they had a drivers license and were damn good EMT's at that. They've done all aspects of patient care including working codes.

    I will tell you that depending on the circumstances surrounding the code, don't be surprised if it messes with your head for a week or two afterwards. It happens to most of us the first time you work a code on someone who shouldn't be dying. When I say "shouldn't be dying", I mean patients other than the very elderly, crackheads, and gangbangers. Its the normal adults and kinds that will do it.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeportFireExplorer View Post
    Hello. I am a 15 year old Fire Explorer. I'm considering purchasing a pair of "station boots" for when I go to Explorer meetings and ride-outs. I'm hoping to find some reccomendations.

    Here is a list of some of my preferences:

    1. Black (duh!)

    2. MUST be slip-on (no laces) ... or if they have laces, they MUST have zipper. (That's to ensure quick turnout times.)

    3. They do NOT have to be "fancy" brands like 5.11 or Bates...and I would like to spend under $70 bucks or so.

    4. Also, I would like something that could be found in a store. I'm not a fan of ordering shoes on-line as they sometimes run small/big/wide/etc.

    5. Boots. Not shoes. Not 6" ones. Real. Boots. Please.

    ...whew! I'm picky, eh?

    Any suggestions?

    _________________________________________________

    Another question is this:

    Our department allows explorers to ride along on Medic units. We are allowed to do things like spike the IV bags, get vitals, document vitals, radio in patient reports, and carry stuff. However, I noticed today after reading our Explorer's SOP, we are allowed to do CPR to!

    All Explorers have up-to-date, AHA CPR certs. So...my questions are:

    1. Do you think this is a good idea? Does your Explorer Post allow this?

    2. Normally, there will be 3 FF/EMT-P's in the back on a CPR. It's crowded enough the way it is. If the lead FF/EMT-P replaced a FF/EMT-P that was riding in with them with an explorer...wouldn't that really take away some "helping hands"? Then again, wouldn't 4 people be a TON of people in a meatwagon?

    ...feel free to add anything else you want.

    If I (personally) elect not to do CPR while en route to a hospital, I would obviously sit up front. However, doing CPR is something we're trained in and I WOULD like to do it some day. How about asking the Officer when I get to the station if I can do CPR on scene rather than en-route?


    Also...any tips on doing CPR while the patient is being rolled to the ambulance on a stretcher?

    Thanks.
    My suggestion is this:

    Apply as much time and effort as you did with this into your school work.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    My suggestion is this:

    Apply as much time and effort as you did with this into your school work.
    What purpose does that response serve?

    To the OP, take his advice but don't let people like that discourage you.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    As for the boots, go to your local Tractor Supply or Farming Outlet store. They will have rubber boots that pull on. Doubt they will be fire rated but I imagine they will have a steel shank in the sole.

    As for CPR, I learned that when I was 12 years old in the Boy Scouts. It is something that is taught to common citizens; as is the use of the AED. These are not specialized skills. In fact, I would be inclined to say it is safer to perform CPR with a partner than it is to take vitals. Vitals are part of the patient assessment process and should be done by the examining medic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    What purpose does that response serve?

    To the OP, take his advice but don't let people like that discourage you.
    Excellent retort. Kudos to you my friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post

    Apply as much time and effort as you did with this into your school work.
    Sarcastic reply: This took about 5 minutes to type. Are you saying I should spend 5 minutes every night doing homework?

    Real reply: I'm an A/B Honor Roll student. - Not saying that is "great" or "terrific", but still...I'm not a slacker. I do my work.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeportFireExplorer View Post
    Sarcastic reply: This took about 5 minutes to type. Are you saying I should spend 5 minutes every night doing homework?

    Real reply: I'm an A/B Honor Roll student. - Not saying that is "great" or "terrific", but still...I'm not a slacker. I do my work.
    Your sarcastic response is perfect! And you're doing far better in school than I ever did. So he can eat his keyboard now.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    As for the boots, go to your local Tractor Supply or Farming Outlet store. They will have rubber boots that pull on. Doubt they will be fire rated but I imagine they will have a steel shank in the sole.

    As for CPR, I learned that when I was 12 years old in the Boy Scouts. It is something that is taught to common citizens; as is the use of the AED. These are not specialized skills. In fact, I would be inclined to say it is safer to perform CPR with a partner than it is to take vitals. Vitals are part of the patient assessment process and should be done by the examining medic.
    Good point on the CPR part. The truth of the matter is, AHA ECC guidelines show that less than 1% of people who are transported to the hospital with ongoing CPR survive. Not saying that doing crappy CPR is okay...but the truth is...it's gonna do more harm (probably) to screw up vitals than to screw up CPR on a guy who's odds of surviving are almost zero.

    And...my apologies for not being clear enough...I meant boots for station wear...not firefighting boots. They issue us fire boots (along with turnout gear). Just looking for a pair of boots to wear around the firehouse.

    Thanks for all the replies.

  11. #11
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    Well the thing with CPR is very often, the patients time is simply up. Elderly patients and dumbasses (ie crackheads) die quite frequently and their time simply up no matter how much CPR, drugs, and fancy equipment you use. These patients probably make up a significant majority of the ones CPR doesn't save.

    Its the ones who's time isn't up that you make the biggest difference on. The kids, the drownings, the chokings, the mid-adults early heart attacks, etc. They may be a small percentage but the victory is disproportionately huge.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  12. #12
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    I can't be much help with the boots. I haven't bought a $70 pair in a long time!

    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeportFireExplorer View Post
    Normally, there will be 3 FF/EMT-P's in the back on a CPR. It's crowded enough the way it is. If the lead FF/EMT-P replaced a FF/EMT-P that was riding in with them with an explorer...wouldn't that really take away some "helping hands"? Then again, wouldn't 4 people be a TON of people in a meatwagon?

    I have a few thoughts on this.

    1. Don't be in such a rush to do CPR. I have seen many adults turn green the first (and second, and third) time they crack ribs.

    2. Be trained and know it like the back of your hand anyway. CPR and AED's are the only way to save the life of a cardiac arrest patient.

    3. You can't do anything about this, but no one should be doing CPR in a moving ambulance. Patients should, in most cases, be worked on scene. Studies have shown, and the AHA agrees, that prehospital ACLS is just as effective as in hospital ACLS. CPR in a moving ambulance is a recipe for injuries. If it is being done be glad you don't have to do it.

    4. It's an ambulance. Please refrain from calling it a meatwagon on a public forum. EMS has a hard enough time earning a better public image.

    Enjoy your time as an Explorer. It is a great opportunity and you should learn a lot, CPR or not.

  13. #13
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    BPExplorer- Are you in California by chance?

    Anyways- I have two answers for you. When I was an Explorer, PCF and Paid FF, I always had Chippewa zipper boots. They were/have been a standard for a long time. The zippers are nice and easy to get into.

    Here is the link- www.chippewaboots.com/boots/safety_toe/92400

    Also Google Razorback boots. They are comfy and slide on nice. I do not think you are going to have much luck with the $70 range. I would expect to buy some nice boots and you will have to pay more than $70. Just take care of them and make them last.

    As for CPR- When I was an Explorer, CPR was mandatory to be a ride-along and I did perform it. After all, the Explorer Program is there to prep you for the job and ANYONE can be CPR certified. Its not just a fire department function as you can use it off duty as I have in the past.

    Hope that helps...Bou

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    Boots: I have a pair of Magnum Stealth 6" for station wear. They are great boots, comfortable, and are true to size (I wear the same size in them as my running shoes). They have zippers on the sides already. I believe they make an 8 inch version also. My dept issued these and they were about $90, but that was at a straight retail price. They were carried at our local uniform shop. I bet you could find them locally to try on and then buy online for around $75.

    CPR: Personally, I'd want to observe an Explorer (or any new person) on a dummy first if possible just to be sure they can do effective CPR. If the opportunity presents itself, jump in and get comfortable with doing CPR. The first time you'll probably be quite nervous and it's great to get that out of the way when you have a large resource pool. When CPR is being performed, in my opinion it's great to have a lot of people available to switch out. You'll probably have a Medic running the arrest (pushing meds and directing everyone), one person bagging the patient and then one doing CPR. There was a study that found after about 2-3 minutes of doing CPR, even "professionals" get tired and their effectiveness drops substantially. We'll usually switch out people doing compressions every 2 minutes.

    We had an arrest once and when we got to the hospital, we had about 12 people in the trauma room (nurses, nursing students, doctors, FF/EMT-B, FF/EMT-P, EMT-P students, etc). It was a long arrest and was nice to switch every minute or so by that point.

    As for doing CPR while a stretcher is moving... well, it's not nearly as effective. I've seen guys riding the stretching while doing compressions one handed. I guess it's better than nothing since some perfusion is better than none. CPR shouldn't ever be stopped for more than about 10 seconds as after that is when the oxygen levels significantly drop.

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    A note on CPR- We all had to start some where and learn some way. Get CERTFIED, practice and perform it well. The sooner the better and experience is a positive all around.

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    Speaking of CPR, I should have mentioned in the original post that I have done CPR once.

    I also volunteer at a local trauma center...in the trauma bay (go figure...lol).

    Even though I'm assigned in the trauma bay, they always send volunteers out to critical care, acute care, etc. Well, I was there one time and a pt. report came in for a full arrest. Well...I stood outside the room just watching them work the code...then one of the nurses asked me..."Do you want to do some CPR?".

    Me: " *eyes bulging open* Sure. " (btw, I did have a current AHA HCP CPR license)

    Well...to sum it up:

    It was a LOT harder than I thought.

    Man! I can do CPR on a dummy for 20 minutes no problemo...but on a real human? It's so much tougher.

    The patient was in his 30s which was unfortunate. The arrest was not an arrest where there was a good chance of survival --- the guy had been in asystole for 30 minutes.

    I tell you what though...I didn't break any ribs or hear any ribs. I'm thankful for that. However, what bothered me more than anything was the fact that his eyes were open and just kind of ... staring at me.

    It was one heck of an expierence and I'm just glad I could do it in a "controlled" enviroment (not in a moving ambulance, people screaming, etc).

    I couldn't even imagine doing quality compressions while moving. I'm sure it's extremely difficult.

  17. #17
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    BridgeportFireExplorer,

    I see your enthusiasm and level head which is a good things, keep that up. Yes, you should devote a lot of time to studying but like Bou said, the explorer program is to break you into the world of the fire service. If you do everything that is asked of you, plus just a bit more, you will make a great firefighter someday.

    Now for your questions:

    Boots- I order mine online. The only place to really get what you want. There are several great stores online to get things from. Go to your local shoe store and have your feet measured by a professional. Use that size to order boots. Yeah it's a gamble because they could send the wrong size but just an evil of doing business. The other option is what was said before is go to your local farm supply store or Red Wing store and find something. A uniform shop where they sell all kinds of uniforms for nurses, mechanics, service workers, etc. is a great place to go as well.

    CPR- You should always ask and listen to all the medics on the ambulance when you ride, the senior, or the officer in charge. Some will say go for it, some will say stay out of the way. Do what you are told regardless. I think it's great they allow you to do those things but do not go out of your scope of training. Different crews have different rules and until they get to know you, they probably will only let you do certain things. Don't get frustrated or discouraged, show them that you can follow orders and have a level head and they will let you do more in time. If they let you do CPR, GREAT!! Either on scene or in the rig is a big help and they would need people to switch out. Don't worry about getting in the way, they will tell you if you are in the way. If they say do it, then do it, you are following their lead and are under their guidance. The fact that they are asking you to do something shows they are confident in you doing it. I was an explorer once too and you will run into people that think you shouldn't be there at all, and others who would rather you do everything for them. Do only what you are trained to do, nothing more. For God's sake, ask questions if you are not sure about something. Don't dry to stumble through it.

    Sounds like you are well on your way to a bright career. Keep up the good work!
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

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    BridgeportFireExplorer- I forgot to mention, when it comes to boots- doesnt your department have a standard?

    Also- Are you in Bridgeport, California? If so, please let me know.


    Thanks.

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    One question I have is that does the state itself say you can have direct patient contact? I'm not sure if it varies by state, since I'm not all into finding out about laws, but when I talked to my local ambulance service, which is separte from the department, about riding with them, they said I probably could, just no patient contact. Let alone CPR, even though I am certified through Boy Scouts to the same level as required to become an EMT. It is probably different since you are an explorer riding with the department that runs med calls also, our department is no ambulance service since it is provided through the hospital.

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    Nope...lol. I grew up in Bridgeport, Texas but I am NOT a Bridgeport, TX Fire Department Explorer.

    My username is confusing...lol.

    btw...your end quote thing about American LaChance --- that cracked me up.

    Then again...somebody said something about Ford PowerJokes the other day. THAT, on the other hand...was NOT funny.

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    BridgeportFireExplorer- Ok, for ther third time- Are YOU in California then?

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    I apologize for my ignorance.

    No, I'm not in California.

    Not that this is related to the thread or anything but...

    "Thank God I Don't Live in Liberalville, California."


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    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeportFireExplorer View Post
    I apologize for my ignorance.

    No, I'm not in California.

    Not that this is related to the thread or anything but...

    "Thank God I Don't Live in Liberalville, California."

    Yeah, good thing. Because out here we outfit our Explorers with their boots for free. And send them through CPR as well.

    Dont come out here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Can't offer advice on boots since I don't wear them.

    As far as the ems/cpr thing goes, I think you should do whatever is needed within the scope of you abilities and as allowed by the crew. Feel free to offer your help and follow the direction of the crew. Whether you are the one doing a component of CPR or just helping with other odds and ends, it doesn't matter.

    As for if I think it is ok? Of course it is ok. If your rules allow it and your crew allows it, and patient needs it, then knock yourself out. We have explorers that got their EMT before they had a drivers license and were damn good EMT's at that. They've done all aspects of patient care including working codes.

    I will tell you that depending on the circumstances surrounding the code, don't be surprised if it messes with your head for a week or two afterwards. It happens to most of us the first time you work a code on someone who shouldn't be dying. When I say "shouldn't be dying", I mean patients other than the very elderly, crackheads, and gangbangers. Its the normal adults and kinds that will do it.
    I think the absolute worst are kids or babies NMFIRE. First one for me I still remember.

  25. #25
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    Default Das Boots

    Boots:

    Redback if you can afford them

    Otherwise I have a pair of Thorogood slip ons that get worn about 4 days a week for the past 2 years and they are still great.

    Both boots are the safety toe style slip on with the elastic on the sides. The Redbacks were slightly more comfortable and more slip resistant. Eitherway, you'll be pleased.

    Sean Desjardins, Captain
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