Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 30 of 30
  1. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FFWALT View Post
    Since you guys are discussing nozzles and reaction force I need to speak up about the Akron Zero Torque nozzles. Some of the guys saw them at the state fire school and thought they were the best things ever. I was a skeptic. Got some to demo and they make one huge difference, I'm a believer. We have them on every preconnect, 2 1/2"'s and some skids. Found out that we could do the conversion ourselves for a little over a $100 a nozzle if we had the correct ones. Makes flowing water a lot easier. Worth looking into if it interest you guys.
    The problem I see with the Zero Torque adapters is that they force you to hold the nozzle in the wrong manner. A nozzleman should be able to steer the nozzle without moving his/her whole body. The ZT's create a solid section that if is in contact with the body at all will require you to turn to aim the tip. This is much like so many firefighters failing to hold the nozzle properly in the first place, and using the pistol grip against their hip. A few years ago we were saying Truck work was the lost art of the Fire Service, but given some of the "advances" of tools and the "no one is wrong" training theory, Engine work will itslef become a los art, if it isn't already.


  2. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    The problem I see with the Zero Torque adapters is that they force you to hold the nozzle in the wrong manner. A nozzleman should be able to steer the nozzle without moving his/her whole body. The ZT's create a solid section that if is in contact with the body at all will require you to turn to aim the tip. This is much like so many firefighters failing to hold the nozzle properly in the first place, and using the pistol grip against their hip. A few years ago we were saying Truck work was the lost art of the Fire Service, but given some of the "advances" of tools and the "no one is wrong" training theory, Engine work will itslef become a los art, if it isn't already.
    I think it might already be...

  3. #23
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    28

    Default good understanding

    I just wanted to make a couple comments based on what I have been reading. Your questions are very good and show that you have been thinking about how actions at the pump panel can affect fireground operations. A good thing to determine at the department level is what should be our target flow for our lines for fire attack. One of the previous posters mentioned 150 gpm on 1.75" lines and 250 or so on 2.5" lines. These are good lines for attack. One way to keep things somewhat simple is to make labels for your pump panel that give you the required pressure to achieve a flow on a certain line. The example I can give is for our Squad (rescue engine) 1750 gpm Waterous/750 gallon tank we have 2-1.75" 200' crosslays with Elkhart Chief 200gpm@75psi nozzles on them. From testing we determined that at 130 psi discharge pressure we flow 150 gpm out of the system, 150 psi = 170 gpm, 200 psi = 200 gpm. I have to put in a little disclaimer the numbers were rounded a bit to make it easier to remember at O dark thirty, rounding was to the nearest 5 pounds or five gallons. At each appropriate discharge we made a label with these results on them. A similar system was done for our preconnected bumper line(different hose and nozzle setup). We also created a pump chart specific for the trucks hoseload and nozzle complement as well.

    Kushise I believe it was talked about the firefighter having the flow control and using the notches on the TFT's to determine flow. This system will work you have to make sure that everyone is on the same page with it and understands how the system works. Like every other system out there. The main point is test and discuss how you want your department to fight the fire. Then practice and train until you achieve the results you want to see.

  4. #24
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinofire View Post
    Kushise I believe it was talked about the firefighter having the flow control and using the notches on the TFT's to determine flow.
    I prefer to operate nozzles in th ON/OFF manner. Gating back is OK for temporary movement or adjustments, but as a rule, should not be used to flow a nozzle. Some reasons for this:
    1. Maintaining proper operating pressures and relief valve control at the panel.
    2. A gated back line is one slip, trip or bump away from an out of control flow.
    3. Most nozzles do not have "click" adjustments requiring yet another, well if this, than that scenario.

    But, without a doubt TFT's work and can be used very successfully, we just choose to steer clear.

  5. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Thanks for the replies everyone. Found out that the chief has a pitot gauge, so I took a new member out today, and we took the pitot gauge and flow tested one of our dry hydrants. We were able to get about 1000gpm out of it using the 6" side suction on the pump panel. I am trying to get a few bodies together so I can get a tanker and a drop tank and flow test the front suction. I will post results when I obtain them.
    Last edited by fordrules; 12-29-2009 at 07:29 PM.

  6. #26
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pa Wilds
    Posts
    566

    Default Sitting here GRINNING!!!

    Wow! You must really be Gung-Ho. This morning here in The Great Buffalo Swamp, I woke up to 6 degrees. Just put the coffee on and threw some more logs on the fire. Wisconsin has to be at least as cold as Northern Pa. Yeah, maybe 30 years ago I would have got dressed and took and engine out to draft. Now I only go when the tones drop, or when I can avoid freezing an ice cube on the end of my private parts. Suggestion for using the front suction when filling tankers. If you have a gate between the pump and the front suction, drop a portable tank in front of the drafting engine and fill it with the recirculating line while waiting for the tanker shuttle. Then after the hook-up take water from both the drop tank and the dry hydrant. Try to get your fill rates up to 1500 gpm. A tanker shuttle can only be improved at the fill or dump site. Driving fast to make up time usually results in an accident. Word of caution... Fill that fast only if you have a large vent or a reliable way of knowing when you are almost full so you can cut back on the fill rate. 8" vent needs 0.61 psi to flow 1500 gpm and a 6" vent needs 1.93 psi to flow the 1500 gpm. A 6' by 12' lid on a tank will see a force of 20,000 lbs with a 6" vent and an 8" vent will see 6,324 lbs trying to blow the top off the tank.
    Last edited by KuhShise; 12-29-2009 at 09:30 PM.

  7. #27
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fordrules View Post
    Thanks for the replies everyone. Found out that the chief has a pitot gauge, so I took a new member out today, and we took the pitot gauge and flow tested one of our dry hydrants. We were able to get about 1000gpm out of it using the 6" side suction on the pump panel. I am trying to get a few bodies together so I can get a tanker and a drop tank and flow test the front suction. I will post results when I obtain them.
    Good test. Remember, a dry hydrant is simply an extension of your suction hose. Best water flow results when drafting are always the shortest hose, least lift and direct to pump connection. Try to compare the dry hydrant flow from front suction and side suction, youll see a difference.

    Another interesting point that fyredup can chime in about....They installed dual dry hydrants to actually allow their 2000 GPM pump the ability to acheive its capacity (or closer to) rather than one. Remember, a single dry hydrant is a long single suction line, if the pump was rated with 2 draft lines it needs 2 dry hydrants (with good piping configurations) to get its capacity at draft.

    Kuhshise...good point about a drop tank at tanker fill site...Im loving that idea!!

  8. #28
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610 View Post
    Another interesting point that fyredup can chime in about....They installed dual dry hydrants to actually allow their 2000 GPM pump the ability to acheive its capacity (or closer to) rather than one. Remember, a single dry hydrant is a long single suction line, if the pump was rated with 2 draft lines it needs 2 dry hydrants (with good piping configurations) to get its capacity at draft.

    Kuhshise...good point about a drop tank at tanker fill site...Im loving that idea!!
    Good idea. One of our stations has a fillsite pond behind it with 2 dry hydrants. Will have to give that one a try too. Kuh Shise, I like the drop tank idea. Will definitley have to try that one too. And, yes, it was cold here today. One degree out when I woke up for work. But after getting all these ideas I just can't wait till warm weather shows up. Besides, my buddies are just as gung ho as me!
    Last edited by fordrules; 12-29-2009 at 10:09 PM.

  9. #29
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    35

    Default Thanks All

    Thank you all who replied to my questions. We took the truck out and flow tested the front suction from a drop tank. We were able to get about 1000 gpms. Now I know what I'm working with.

  10. #30
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fordrules View Post
    Thank you all who replied to my questions. We took the truck out and flow tested the front suction from a drop tank. We were able to get about 1000 gpms. Now I know what I'm working with.
    Good stuff. Keep bringing us more of your expierences and questions. Keeps it lively here!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 2000 GPM Pump overkill ?
    By Fire304 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 06-05-2011, 10:56 PM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 05-31-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-01-2005, 07:26 AM
  3. New Rear Mount Pump/Controls?
    By islander237 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-07-2004, 10:27 AM
  4. Another Phun Phire Ground Fysics Question for ya all..
    By firefighter26 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-01-2003, 09:11 PM
  5. Question on FDNY pump operations
    By BIG PAULIE in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-01-2001, 12:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts