1. #1
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    Default Official Thread: How do I complete the bidding process?

    1. General
    - Model year: 2009 or newer.
    - Make: Ford E-450
    - The apparatus shall be a Type III Class 2 Configuration “A” ambulance. The ambulance must be equipped with four wheel drive (4x4). No exceptions.
    - Ambulance shall be in compliance with the Federal Ambulance Specifications KKK-A-1822-E and the requirements set forth by the State of Pennsylvania. No exceptions.

    2. Patient compartment
    - Interior head room of minimum 70”
    - Stryker centered rolling cot fastener. The litter shall be loaded to position the patient’s head forward in the vehicle.

    3. Warranties
    - Minimum 15 year structural body warranty.
    - Minimum 6 year/60,000 mile electrical warranty.
    - Minimum 5 year paint warranty.

    4. Painting
    - "XXXX AREA AMBULANCE" shall be painted on the left and right sides of the unit in accordance with the state of Pennsylvania and KKK-A-1822E guidelines.

    Expected delivery date:
    Price:

    I'm so confused. How much more detail do I need to add? I feel like I'm repeating the KKK guidelines if I add anymore detail.

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    Thumbs down Oops watch out for being a non-competitive bid!

    By specifying Ford E-450 you are making this a non-competive bid process in violation of the Procurment Integrity Rules.
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    I'm so clueless about this Will DHS provide any help with the bidding process if we get the award?

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    Quote Originally Posted by medstudent13 View Post
    I'm so clueless about this Will DHS provide any help with the bidding process if we get the award?
    No not really but, there is lots of help out here. Give me a shout and I can get you up to speed on what you should be doing. 863-551-9598.
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    By specifying Ford E-450 you are making this a non-competive bid process in violation of the Procurment Integrity Rules.
    Unless there is a valid reason to specify it - and there still might be a better way to say it.

    You may want an International Chassis on an Engine, because your area only has a warranty dealer for International, the next dealers for the other brands being over 100 miles away. You could get away with specifying, but it would be easier just to state in the bids that the Chassis manufacturer must have an "established warranty repair center within 100 miles of the Fire Department".

    And Kurt knows this, but it is often misunderstood by people doing bidding. Your should not need to take the cheapest bid, but the BEST bid. (Although I have seen some municipalities with bid requirements that state otherwise)

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Unless there is a valid reason to specify it - and there still might be a better way to say it.

    You may want an International Chassis on an Engine, because your area only has a warranty dealer for International, the next dealers for the other brands being over 100 miles away. You could get away with specifying, but it would be easier just to state in the bids that the Chassis manufacturer must have an "established warranty repair center within 100 miles of the Fire Department".

    And Kurt knows this, but it is often misunderstood by people doing bidding. Your should not need to take the cheapest bid, but the BEST bid. (Although I have seen some municipalities with bid requirements that state otherwise)
    Well put LVFD301. I could not think quite how to put that so that's why I asked her to call me.Thanks that was a pretty easy way to state that.
    Kurt Bradley
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    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    Well put LVFD301. I could not think quite how to put that so that's why I asked her to call me.Thanks that was a pretty easy way to state that.
    I'm still working on this. I want to be a bit more informed before I call. I'm going to run my rough draft of the invitation to bid across our officers and see what they think. How much do you charge for help with this?

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    Since multiple ambulance vendors build on Ford E350s that's not considered an exclusionary metric. Same reason you could put in for an International chassis since almost everyone uses those. Open bidding just means that 2 or more vendors would be able to meet all metrics in the bid spec, not all vendors. The exception would be if there is only 1 vendor in the area that uses those chassis, in which case the bid becomes "commercial chassis" instead of International, and van-type instead of E350.

    Specifying something like 8" raised roof when only one vendor does it would be exclusionary as would the 100 mile repair center metric. Those can be reasons one qualifying bid is chosen over another, but they can't be in the bid spec. After all if someone doesn't have a repair center within 100 miles but does everything on site they couldn't bid but would be a better option IMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by medstudent13 View Post
    I'm still working on this. I want to be a bit more informed before I call. I'm going to run my rough draft of the invitation to bid across our officers and see what they think. How much do you charge for help with this?
    The phone call is free!
    Kurt Bradley
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    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    Quote Originally Posted by medstudent13 View Post
    1. General
    - Model year: 2009 or newer.
    - Make: Ford E-450
    - The apparatus shall be a Type III Class 2 Configuration “A” ambulance. The ambulance must be equipped with four wheel drive (4x4). No exceptions.
    - Ambulance shall be in compliance with the Federal Ambulance Specifications KKK-A-1822-E and the requirements set forth by the State of Pennsylvania. No exceptions.

    2. Patient compartment
    - Interior head room of minimum 70”
    - Stryker centered rolling cot fastener. The litter shall be loaded to position the patient’s head forward in the vehicle.

    3. Warranties
    - Minimum 15 year structural body warranty.
    - Minimum 6 year/60,000 mile electrical warranty.
    - Minimum 5 year paint warranty.

    4. Painting
    - "XXXX AREA AMBULANCE" shall be painted on the left and right sides of the unit in accordance with the state of Pennsylvania and KKK-A-1822E guidelines.

    Expected delivery date:
    Price:

    I'm so confused. How much more detail do I need to add? I feel like I'm repeating the KKK guidelines if I add anymore detail.
    Medstudent: if you follow the format I sent you it will meet the requirements of the bidding process and you will get what you want ,not what a salesman wants to sell you.
    You can add or delete as much as you feel safe with. You need to have more than a simple generic type III 4 wheel drive ambulance. Have you thought about a type 1 F-350/450 4 wheel drive chassis instead of an E series? The econoline 4 wheel drive conversion is a costly option.

    You need to specify what inside and outside compartments are required, what type of emergency lighting and locations. What type of equipment mountings you need, ie M-size 02 tank in KKK/DOT approved mounting, mounting for two backboards , a scoop stretcher, mount for your cardiac monitor. How many 110 volt and 12 volt power points and where, How many o2 outlets and where, Narc safe or other ALS requirements. Way too many variables in building a truck to meet your departments needs.
    Remember if you don't put it in the specs you will not necessarily get it.

    The spec I sent you is how we went out to bid last year and our neighbors just took delivery last week of a twin to ours. Remember when you send these out to bid , the salesmen will have to meet your specs or take an exception to an item which makes it easy to compare apples to apples. You have my e-mail if you need any further guidance.

    Just reading your warrantee requirements above I have a good idea which vendor you've been talking with. There are much better warrantees available from other manufacturers.
    Last edited by islandfire03; 12-28-2009 at 07:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Medstudent: if you follow the format I sent you it will meet the requirements of the bidding process and you will get what you want ,not what a salesman wants to sell you.
    You can add or delete as much as you feel safe with. You need to have more than a simple generic type III 4 wheel drive ambulance. Have you thought about a type 1 F-350/450 4 wheel drive chassis instead of an E series? The econoline 4 wheel drive conversion is a costly option.

    You need to specify what inside and outside compartments are required, what type of emergency lighting and locations. What type of equipment mountings you need, ie M-size 02 tank in KKK/DOT approved mounting, mounting for two backboards , a scoop stretcher, mount for your cardiac monitor. How many 110 volt and 12 volt power points and where, How many o2 outlets and where, Narc safe or other ALS requirements. Way too many variables in building a truck to meet your departments needs.
    Remember if you don't put it in the specs you will not necessarily get it.

    The spec I sent you is how we went out to bid last year and our neighbors just took delivery last week of a twin to ours. Remember when you send these out to bid , the salesmen will have to meet your specs or take an exception to an item which makes it easy to compare apples to apples. You have my e-mail if you need any further guidance.

    Just reading your warrantee requirements above I have a good idea which vendor you've been talking with. There are much better warrantees available from other manufacturers.
    Thanks. I wasn't sure if I needed to include all of that detail because it is listed in the KKK-A-1822E standards. I guess there is no harm in including it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    By specifying Ford E-450 you are making this a non-competive bid process in violation of the Procurment Integrity Rules.
    Kurt: I don't see how this would be non competitive as the majority of ambulance builders use this chassis . Until recently Ford had in the neighborhood of 85% of the ambulance chassis's market out there.
    You could go with " a diesel cutaway chassis with 14,500 GVW rating or greater", but that would still give you the Ford E-450. They are the only chassis with that rating in a cutaway.

    There are many examples in a spec where we did make brand specific requirements, such as "all emergency lighting shall be Whelen LED's due to the fact that they are manufactured in the USA and have an excellent history of reliability and parts availability. unlike other lighting manufacturers that have a short life span and replacement parts are harder than hens teeth to find and are cloned by offshore firms. I don't think there would be an issue with these kinds of brand specific requirements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    No not really but, there is lots of help out here. Give me a shout and I can get you up to speed on what you should be doing. 863-551-9598.
    cant you post on the forums? isnt that the point of a discussion board? im sure theres other people out there that lurk and might have the same questions as the OP

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Kurt: I don't see how this would be non competitive as the majority of ambulance builders use this chassis . Until recently Ford had in the neighborhood of 85% of the ambulance chassis's market out there.
    You could go with " a diesel cutaway chassis with 14,500 GVW rating or greater", but that would still give you the Ford E-450. They are the only chassis with that rating in a cutaway.

    There are many examples in a spec where we did make brand specific requirements, such as "all emergency lighting shall be Whelen LED's due to the fact that they are manufactured in the USA and have an excellent history of reliability and parts availability. unlike other lighting manufacturers that have a short life span and replacement parts are harder than hens teeth to find and are cloned by offshore firms. I don't think there would be an issue with these kinds of brand specific requirements.
    Island as you and some others are pointing out, there can be reasons to do so but, without specifying or justifying those reasons you run that risk of it "appearing" non-competitive. Just giving a heads up to be cautious in this area.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by TotowaEMT View Post
    cant you post on the forums? isnt that the point of a discussion board? im sure theres other people out there that lurk and might have the same questions as the OP
    Totowa I post consistently and frequently , sometimes the individual circumstances and additional information needed to provide an answer are just better handled in a phone call so as not to take up yards of column space.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    Totowa I post consistently and frequently , sometimes the individual circumstances and additional information needed to provide an answer are just better handled in a phone call so as not to take up yards of column space.
    understood and i have personally found some advice on here from you helpful in the past but i saw at least 3 posts from you in the past week telling someone to call you instead of sharing the info..its a discussion forum not a classified section

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    Would anyone be willing to glance at what I have done so far on the "Invitation to bid". I took IslandFire's advice and added some more detail. But, I don't know if I still need to add additional info. Send me your email address if you'd be willing to look at it. I don't expect you to read it with a fine tooth comb. I just need someone to glance over it. Thanks in advance for any replies. Kurt, I told our president that you offered some free phone advice. We are going to have a meeting tomorrow. If we can't figure this out, I might be giving you a call. I'll also post our final Invitation to Bid on here to help everyone else out once I get it perfected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TotowaEMT View Post
    understood and i have personally found some advice on here from you helpful in the past but i saw at least 3 posts from you in the past week telling someone to call you instead of sharing the info..its a discussion forum not a classified section
    You're seeing the difference between individual assistance and general assistance. As medstudent is needing specific help with her issue, that requires a bit more discussion and information sharing that may not be appropriate or might end up confusing within the forums.

    If it were a generalized question, I think you'd see Kurt post an answer.

    A lot of us do the same thing, it just depends on the particular circumstances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by medstudent13 View Post
    Would anyone be willing to glance at what I have done so far on the "Invitation to bid". I took IslandFire's advice and added some more detail. But, I don't know if I still need to add additional info. Send me your email address if you'd be willing to look at it. I don't expect you to read it with a fine tooth comb. I just need someone to glance over it. Thanks in advance for any replies. Kurt, I told our president that you offered some free phone advice. We are going to have a meeting tomorrow. If we can't figure this out, I might be giving you a call. I'll also post our final Invitation to Bid on here to help everyone else out once I get it perfected.
    Send it to me by e-mail medstudent. I'll be happy to look it over.
    You have my e-mail address

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