tanker specs

[elk1544]

i know it has probably been done alot but not recently so i'll try again. my department is looking at specing a new tanker. it will be the first one we ever outlined and i was looking for advice. we know it will be elliptical 2000 gallons with a 500 gpm midship pto pump. any ideas as to what else might be needed. our current tanker is a milk truck that carries nothing but 50 ft of fill hose so we are kinda in the dark in rural illinois here. thx

[nameless]

swivel or side dumps.

From what I've seen from tanker shuttles the ability to dump from the side is invaluable and can be much safer since it allows you to eliminate backing (given the right conditions).

[farmerfire1156]

The side dumps are an excellent and beneficial feature. The department that we mutual with have a tender with three dumps, one on each side and one in the back. Driver doesnt get out of the truck, simply pushes a button, dumps and heads back to the water supply, about a two minute dump. Dont know if its electric or hydraulic. Would love to have one.

[Catch22]

Side dumps are a must, if you can afford them. If you can get them with in-cab controls, that's even better. All the driver has to do is drive up, flip a switch and dump.

Makes sure you have a dump tank with plenty of reserve to allow you to dump if there's still a little water in there. If you get a 2,000 gallon dump tank and match it to a 2,000 gallon tank, you're going to overfill unless it's bone dry, which wastes water. I've seen recommendations of 10% larger than tank capacity, but I can't see that it's going to hurt going with 2,500 gallons if you're getting 2,000. If you've got room, consider two. We have one tanker that has a 2,500 gallon dump tank that we fill upon arrival, then a 2,500 gallon snap-tank that we drop on the ground while we fill and assemble after the tanker dumps and leaves.

Get a big tank-fill port. If you have the ability, you can fill faster using 4" or 5" LDH. Even if you use 2 1/2" more often, you only need to throw on a clappered siamese with two or three connections for faster fills, or have one on there that you can take off when you do use LDH.

If you're going to use the pump to fill, consider a larger tank-fill line. Standard, I believe, is 1 1/2". At the same time, if you're looking at off-loading via pump, consider a bigger tank-to-pump line.

That's just some of my thoughts.

[DFDMAXX]

Another vote for side dumps. You can go fancy with the cab operated controls, but if your budget is tight manual dumps work very well, and less parts to break. My dept has both, and guess which style never has any maintanence problems? Manual. Keep it simple.

Since you have a 500gpm pump, you'll need space for handlines. Above the pump compartment usually works, preconnected if you can. You may or may not want to use this truck for direct fire attack, but it is handy when an engine goes down in mid fire. At the very least so this tanker can operate at a grass fire independently. Or upgrade the pump size so you have more options.

Is the tanker going to fill itself? Front suction would be handy, along with 20-30 feet of hard suction hose. Large pump to tank valve would be good to.

Rack for a porta-tank? Multiple tanks? Big tank is good for capacity, but a 4000 gal tank can take up a 2 lane road. We use 2500 gal tanks, multiples when needed.

I could be here for a while, but could you give us a better idea of what you are looking to accomplish and how much money you may have?

I know a tanker sounds pretty simple, but the trend in my county in southern wisconsin is to make a small tanker ( MABAS makes us call them tenders ) kind of a multi-purpose sort of deal with a mid-ship pump, crosslays, hosebed, sometimes ladders, so on and so forth. Can be used as a back-up engine if needed. The bigger tankers 3500 to 4000 gal are usually just a tanker with storage, but even a lot of those have a small gas engine pump so you can run a small handline or fill a grass truck. Tankers with only the ability to dump water are getting rare.

The sky is the limit if you have the money, but a simple multi-purpose tanker can be very helpful without breaking your budget.

http://www.ustanker.com/PDF/US%20Tanker_Heritage.pdf

This is our small tanker. 1500pump 2500tank. It is our back-up engine as well with 2 200' 1 3/4 preconnects, 500' of 2 1/2 all above the pump compartment. Rear hosebed has 300' of 3" for the blitz gun, and 800' of 5". Please excuse the hoselays in the picture. Sloppy.

It doesn't look like we could get 400' of 1 3/4 and 500' of 2 1/2 above the pump compartment, but it fits very well.

http://www.ustanker.com/

Take a look at the website, check under recent deliveries. There are a lot of good ideas there which may help you out.

[DFDMAXX]

Tri-axle with a deck gun!

http://www.ustanker.com/apps/apparat...pparatusid=310

Ok, not practicle for everybody. We all have different needs and restrictions.

But take a minute to sit back and enjoy.

[rm1524]

I agree with the side dumps. They are money well spent. Catch is also right about the porta-tank. Our 2000 gallon tankers carry 3000 gallon porta-tanks. Are you set on an elliptical tanker? They tend to have a higher center of gravity.

[elk1544]

lots of great ideas here. dfd we are looking for what you are describing. a water hauler that can fill from draft itself if it has to and occasionally handle the small fires( dumpster, grass). sounds like the tri dump is a must. we have a decent budget of 200 k for the truck and equipment needed for nfpa. rm the dept is set on elliptical but i thought the had a lower cog than square tankers? again great ideas thank you all for the input keep em coming.
thx mm

[MG3610]

lots of great ideas here. dfd we are looking for what you are describing. a water hauler that can fill from draft itself if it has to and occasionally handle the small fires( dumpster, grass). sounds like the tri dump is a must. we have a decent budget of 200 k for the truck and equipment needed for nfpa. rm the dept is set on elliptical but i thought the had a lower cog than square tankers? again great ideas thank you all for the input keep em coming.
thx mm

Dont cheat yourself with a 500 GPM Pump, I say at least 1000 GPM. You can get small pumps of larger capacity, such as Hale's Qpak.

Spec 4" tank to pump piping and valve. This will allow you 1000 GPM if you hae to pump the water off (Nurse tanker). 1000 GPM is important, because its a typical flow from a deluge gun with a 2" tip or two small portable monitors.

If you are looking to fill from draft, spec large tank fill or two tank fill valves off the pump (not sure anyones ever done this). If you can get 2 1/2" or 3" thats better than the typical 1 1/2 or 2".

If you only get a single LDH fill (4") on the rear, make sure you get a 2 1/2" siamese atached to it so you can fill with either twin 2 1/2 or 3" or a single 4 or 5" hose.

[ejfeicht]

Ours is a 1999 VOLVO / NEW LEXINGTON, 2100 Gallon Stainless Steel Tank, 1000 gpm Darley PTO Pump, Zico Electronic PortaTank Bracket with 2100 gallon PortaTank. An OAL of 23'8" makes it easy to maneuver and turn on rural limited access roads. The apparatus was designed primarily as a water shuttle tanker but has the ability to function as a nurse tanker or engine if necessary. For shuttle operations it has 10" automatic side and rear dumps controlled from either the cab or the rear of the apparatus along with rear quick fills with LDH connections. This gives it the ability for actual one man operation when operating in the shuttle mode. The pump panel is located on the drivers side behind a roll up door, 6" intakes on each side of the apparatus, 2 1/2" discharge at the pump panel and (2) 1 3/4' preconnects located along side the tank which are deployed from the rear. It also carries 2 sections of 6" suction hose and is capable of drafting or self refill. An SCBA is carried in a compartment on the officers side of the apparatus directly behind the cab. There are a total of 6 storage cabinets for fittings, short hose sections, etc.

[Catch22]

The T-shaped or rectangular tankers will have a lower COG than the elliptical.

If you're going to look at the pumping aspect of it, you might also figure out whether or not you'll pump-off a load and plan accordingly (larger pump-to-tank, LDH discharge).

If I'm thinking right, you're getting this off a grant? I think you can even look at bumping up to a 750 gpm pump. If you're looking at a PTO-driven pump, the cost should be minimal.

[chiefengineer11]

A recent thread made a really good case for vacuum tankers. But I don't know how they'd work in a highly choreographed tanker shuttle system such as is used in the more rural parts of our area, and appears to be the case in your area.

[Rescue101]

OH COME ON SAM! I know it's New Years but really. A vaccum Tanker CAN be operated conventionally. Just open the door(discharge) and the vent.Can be filled via a rear fill just like a conventional tanker. ADVANTAGE: can self load in areas where the water is too "thin"(shallow)to pump conventionally. I don't now WHY you would want to,(not power dump)but conventional dumping is EASY! T.C.

[npfd801]

Dont cheat yourself with a 500 GPM Pump, I say at least 1000 GPM. You can get small pumps of larger capacity, such as Hale's Qpak.

Spec 4" tank to pump piping and valve. This will allow you 1000 GPM if you hae to pump the water off (Nurse tanker). 1000 GPM is important, because its a typical flow from a deluge gun with a 2" tip or two small portable monitors.

If you are looking to fill from draft, spec large tank fill or two tank fill valves off the pump (not sure anyones ever done this). If you can get 2 1/2" or 3" thats better than the typical 1 1/2 or 2".

If you only get a single LDH fill (4") on the rear, make sure you get a 2 1/2" siamese atached to it so you can fill with either twin 2 1/2 or 3" or a single 4 or 5" hose.

Can't do any more than a 500 gpm pump on this unit, I suspect, due to FEMA grant funding rules...

[npfd801]

The T-shaped or rectangular tankers will have a lower COG than the elliptical.

If you're going to look at the pumping aspect of it, you might also figure out whether or not you'll pump-off a load and plan accordingly (larger pump-to-tank, LDH discharge).

If I'm thinking right, you're getting this off a grant? I think you can even look at bumping up to a 750 gpm pump. If you're looking at a PTO-driven pump, the cost should be minimal.

I think while there is a certain appeal to an elliptical with the stainless wrap, I'm certain that the center of gravity issues are better handled with a square or t-shaped tank.

You can most certainly save some money on designing and demanding a unit that doesn't require a chassis stability control system. The rig may be nominally longer, but you'll be able to have a wider variety of chassis choices that aren't as expensive as those equipped with a stability control system. As long as the builder can design the unit to be have the COG low enough to not require the system, you'll still be NFPA compliant. Eliminate a traditional pumphouse and put the PTO pump in a compartment, and you'll probably eliminate some of that extra length.

[MG3610]

What?


...

[FFWALT]

Definitely go with the side and rear dumps plus the dump tank larger than the tanker. I can't stress enough to strongly consider a vacuum tanker, they utilize water sources that were previously not feasible and decrease fill and dump times, key components of a tanker. Two of the main manufactures are Firovac and Southern Fire. It would be worth the time to check them out and see what they could do for the money you are talking. Our 3,500 gallon vacuum with a 500 gpm pump from Southern Fire came in at about $220K fully loaded but that was a coupe years ago.

As you can see, everyone looks at tankers differently depending on how they operate them. How do you intend to use it? Are you looking at getting water from point A to B and want a pump to relay with and maybe do a little attack or are you looking for a back up engine? Some of the tankers that people get today are more engines in my opinion than tanker but that is what works for them.

Keep in mind the heart of water shuttle is how fast you can fill and dump the tanker and the amount it holds. The decisions you make on this apparatus will affect water delivery for the next couple decades so you want to get it right. The drive time will be comparable if you have a proper chassis under both a 2,000 gallon and a 4,000 gallon but one delivers more water with each trip.

Going with a 5" Storz fill is great and you can put a Siamese on to use dual 2 1/2" lines if needed. It works a lot better if you have a drain in the system to get rid of the pressure and a valve attached to the hydrant because that speeds the open and close time vs. operating the hydrant, especially if using 90 degree ball valves. When you are getting your equipment go with 3" hose instead of 2 1/2" because it flows more water.

For me an ideal tanker would be a vacuum with tri dump valves controlled from the cab and the large dump tank. It would have a 500 gpm pump, 60" of hard suction, one 1 3/4" preconnect (just in case) and a couple hundred feet of 3" Storz cross loaded and ready to relay with. Equipment would be a hydrant bag and valves, cones, low level strainer, one short piece of 5", spanners and hydrant wrench, adapters and whatever else NFPA recommends.

[GFD940]

"Going with a 5" Storz fill is great and you can put a Siamese on to use dual 2 1/2" lines if needed. It works a lot better if you have a drain in the system to get rid of the pressure and a valve attached to the hydrant because that speeds the open and close time vs. operating the hydrant, especially if using 90 degree ball valves."

I second this but I would go with clappered direct fills instead of valves. This will speed up fill time and reduce the issue with back pressure when you disconnect.

[rm1524]

lots of great ideas here. dfd we are looking for what you are describing. a water hauler that can fill from draft itself if it has to and occasionally handle the small fires( dumpster, grass). sounds like the tri dump is a must. we have a decent budget of 200 k for the truck and equipment needed for nfpa. rm the dept is set on elliptical but i thought the had a lower cog than square tankers? again great ideas thank you all for the input keep em coming.
thx mm

I work tomorrow and will take a couple of pictures of what we run. They have a very LCG. We run gas powered 500GPM pumps on them. They are used for hauling water. Very few times do they do a fire attack of any kind. Someone noted about a bigger pump, our thought is if you need that much flow there had better be tanks on the ground.

[chiefengineer11]

OH COME ON SAM! I know it's New Years but really. A vaccum Tanker CAN be operated conventionally. Just open the door(discharge) and the vent.Can be filled via a rear fill just like a conventional tanker. ADVANTAGE: can self load in areas where the water is too "thin"(shallow)to pump conventionally. I don't now WHY you would want to,(not power dump)but conventional dumping is EASY! T.C.

Shows what I know. Better I should follow Kuh's advice!