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  1. #1
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    Default Honest, Open Obama Administration

    Democratic Leaders Plan Secret Health Reform Deliberations
    January 04, 2010 05:45 PM ET | Peter Roff | Permanent Link | Print
    By Peter Roff, Thomas Jefferson Street blog

    Despite their claims to the contrary, the way that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid have handled the healthcare bill has been anything but transparent. And, if the left-wing blogosphere is to be believed, the two congressional leaders intend to keep the deliberations secret as they try to merge the House and Senate versions of the legislation into something that will pass both chambers.

    The Talking Points Memo website reported Monday that Democrats in both the House and Senate are saying the process will likely follow the path of the House taking up the Senate-passed legislation, amending it and sending it back to the Senate, which will have to pass it again. "This process cuts out the Republicans," a House Democratic aide told TPM, indicating the congressional majority intended to make sure the Republican minority would "not have a motion to recommit opportunity."

    It also, say those who are following the issue, allows Pelosi to avoid having to cut deals with problematic House Democrats like Michigan's Bart Stupak, who has promised to do what he can to scuttle the final bill if it provides for federal funding of abortions.

    Henry Waxman, the chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, is saying much the same thing, according to David Dayen at FireDogLake, another prominent left-wing website.

    Dayen reported that the powerful California Democrat told constituents he would be coming back to Washington Tuesday to begin negotiations with Senate leaders and the White House about what a final healthcare bill will look like—even though the House doesn't come back into session until January 12.

    According to Waxman, the process for moving will not include the standard House/Senate conference committee, because the motions to select and instruct conferees in the Senate "would need 60 votes all over again." Instead, whatever agreements made could be packaged in an amendment to the bills passed by the House and Senate.

    By blocking out the Republicans—not to mention House Democrats who object to what the Senate passed—Pelosi and Reid are setting up a protracted game of "ping-pong," in which the legislation goes back and forth from the Senate to the House and back to the Senate again. They may be able to prevail as far as the legislation goes, ultimately, but at enormous cost to their majorities. And that may be the biggest secret of all as far as the healthcare debate is concerned, or at least the one Pelosi and Reid are most concerned about.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Can you imagine the uproar by the MoveOn.org crowd if the GOP tried this? Remember when Pres. Obama declared that this administration would be the most open and honest and that he would take the negotiations out of the back room and put them on CSPAN???

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.


  2. #2
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Could you point us to the outrage from the MoveOn.org crowd when HR 5005 was signed into law?

    From the CQ Alamanac:

    H.R. 5005, Homeland Security Act (creating Department of Homeland Security) - signed into law on November 25, 2002.

    The House passed its version of the bill on July 26, 2002, by a vote of 295 to 132. The Senate took up the bill in September, but was deadlocked on issues such as employee rights at the department, so the bill was taken off the floor.

    Then, after the November election, when Republicans regained control of the Senate, as the CQ Almanac points out, "[President] Bush directed Republican leaders to reconcile the House and Senate bills."

    The House and Senate Republican leaders then worked feverishly, with no conference committee, to reconcile the two bills. A bill reflecting a reconciliation of the House and Senate bills was then developed and agreed to by the House and Senate Republican leadership.
    The GOP caucus has stated their intention is to kill the legislation or delay it till the sun burns out. Whichever comes first.

    I completely understand why this is being done.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Could you point us to the outrage from the MoveOn.org crowd when HR 5005 was signed into law?
    To be fair to Bush and the GOP, they never made any promises of the kind that Obama has made regarding open meetings.

    Edited to add: I voted for Obama because of health care reform, but I still would like to know what it is they are working on. Just because I support Obama on that front does not mean that I trust them to come up with a solution behind closed doors.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Could you point us to the outrage from the MoveOn.org crowd when HR 5005 was signed into law?

    From the CQ Alamanac:



    The GOP caucus has stated their intention is to kill the legislation or delay it till the sun burns out. Whichever comes first.

    I completely understand why this is being done.
    With all due respect, this is how you respond to most of the points brought up about the Obama Administration.

    Pres. Bush didn't promise to put negotiations on TV.

    Pres. Bush wasn't trying to pass a bill which over 70% (depending on the poll) of the Amercian public is against.

    You will argue that over 70% is a false figure.

    We will have to wait until November to watch what that 70% does to Congress. I am fairly certain it will be a Democrat bloodbath-far worse than 1994.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    With all due respect, this is how you respond to most of the points brought up about the Obama Administration.

    Pres. Bush didn't promise to put negotiations on TV.

    Pres. Bush wasn't trying to pass a bill which over 70% (depending on the poll) of the Amercian public is against.

    You will argue that over 70% is a false figure.

    We will have to wait until November to watch what that 70% does to Congress. I am fairly certain it will be a Democrat bloodbath-far worse than 1994.
    As numerous conservatives on these boards have pointed out, the President doesn't control congress.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    As numerous conservatives on these boards have pointed out, the President doesn't control congress.
    But the President is agreeing to these closed door meetings.

    Why can't he tell Congress "No Meetings unless they are public"? It's what he promised. It has nothing to do with Congress, it has everything to do with Obama agreeing to closed doors meetings.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    As numerous conservatives on these boards have pointed out, the President doesn't control congress.
    He can if he chose to. After all, that is how he got several members of Congress to vote in favor of this bill, isn't it?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    He can if he chose to. After all, that is how he got several members of Congress to vote in favor of this bill, isn't it?
    Not according to folks like idiotboy, moonbat, and others. Remember how they criticized me as being ignorant of how government works when I brought up the spending bills passed into law during the Bush years.

    So it goes now.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Not according to folks like idiotboy, moonbat, and others. Remember how they criticized me as being ignorant of how government works when I brought up the spending bills passed into law during the Bush years.

    So it goes now.
    Since when do you worry about what others, especially that bunch, think of you?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Not according to folks like idiotboy, moonbat, and others. Remember how they criticized me as being ignorant of how government works when I brought up the spending bills passed into law during the Bush years.

    So it goes now.
    But for the past 3 years you made excuses as to why the Democrats have made no effort to control the deficit or debt in any of the past 3 annual budgets that they have sent to a President. One of which was to a member of their own party.

    All the while criticizing the Republicans for the manner in which they ****ed away money "like a drunken sailor" as they described it. Now they spend just as much, add just as much to our deficit and debt, and have no qualms about it.

    And you say that it is OK to do so, defending them with the addage that you cannot change 8 years so quickly. Well, you have had 3 years of controlling the budget process to do so.......Exactly how long should I give them to do it?


    If the mornonic half wits in Congress, of either party, were serious about controlling spending (which they are not for the most part) they would want to kill our deficit and debt and take the money and apply it to pay for healthcare "reform" that would actually cover every citizen and LEGAL resident in the United States.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/1..._n_367249.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/bu...ates.html?_r=1

    The Republicans screwed the pooch on their chance to do it, while saying they would. And in the past 3 years the Democrats have opted to do NOTHING about our debt and deficit.......except to add to both.

    Yet you only criticize the Republicans for doing it, and make excuses for Democrats to do the exact same thing they decried 3 or 4 years ago. Love the hypocracy of ideologues.
    Last edited by DaSharkie; 01-06-2010 at 11:05 AM.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    I'm sure these are all out of context...

    http://www.breitbart.tv/the-c-span-l...-negotiations/
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I'm sure these are all out of context...

    http://www.breitbart.tv/the-c-span-l...-negotiations/
    Obama promised televised hearings. Congress didn't.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    .......
    I can understand your frustration after carrying water for Bush the last 8 years. Your leaders left many of you broke,unemployed, buried in debts, no credits, no jobs, no homes…plus no future.

    Best part is they left town before you realized it was too late and now you're focusing your anger on the person tasked with cleaning up that mess.

    Sucks to be a conservative.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Since when do you worry about what others, especially that bunch, think of you?
    I don't. I just enjoy giving back. I'm a giver that way.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Obama promised televised hearings. Congress didn't.
    Yes, and the stupid Americna Public bought it.

    How is this for open debate Sources: Obama, Dems to sidestep GOP on health care

    Best part is when it is shown to be a failure and they pass a bill that is opposed by a majority of Americans the only people to blame will be Democrats. Majority of Americans Still Not Backing Healthcare Bill

  16. #16
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I can understand your frustration after carrying water for Bush the last 8 years. Your leaders left many of you broke,unemployed, buried in debts, no credits, no jobs, no homes…plus no future.

    Best part is they left town before you realized it was too late and now you're focusing your anger on the person tasked with cleaning up that mess.

    Sucks to be a conservative.
    I did not carry water for Bush. He was a better choice for me than Al Gore or John Kerry.

    I also voiced my displeasure with many of his decisions as well.

    And I am not broke, nor am I unemployed, nor am I buried in debt (as I am debt free for 3 months - owing nobody any money), I have a stellar 800+ credit rating, a job, and I rent an apartment so that I can save to buy my house.

    I do have a future as well.

    It does not suck to be a conservative.

    I have seen in the past year unemployment skyrocket to well abovee 10%, increased national debt and deficits, banks taking bailout money and not lending, foreclosures skyrocket, and a myriad of other issues. All while the Democrats have had "control" of both houses of Congress for the past 3 years, and the Presidency for the past 11 months and 14 days.

    You also did not answer the question as to how long I should give the Democrats to do what they said they would do. How hypocritically typical of you.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Editor's note: Gloria Borger is a senior political analyst for CNN, appearing regularly on CNN's "The Situation Room," "Campbell Brown," "AC360°" and "State of the Union With John King," as well as during special event coverage.

    Washington (CNN) -- After months of writing a huge health care bill largely behind closed doors in the Senate, now comes the decision to work out the final kinks in the massive bill in a conference committee -- behind closed doors.

    Maybe it shouldn't stun us. After all, the Democrats didn't expect any help from the Republicans, anyway. And why should they? They haven't gotten any so far, and that won't change.

    The GOP has found a pretty good gig in dissing President Obama and the Democrats as big-spending, deficit-producing, high-taxing liberals. They're not about to give up the golden message now -- particularly when it appears they're heading into a very lucrative campaign season.

    So the Democrats will hold an "informal" conference so they can fast-track the process. After closed door meetings to reconcile the bills, the House would then pass the Senate bill (already amended with new compromise provisions). Then, the package would be sent back to the Senate for a final vote.

    Presto, health care reform.

    The Republicans will complain, which is to be expected. But they're not on terra firma on this one, given that none are expected to vote for any final product, no matter what it is.

    The folks who could get truly shafted here are the liberal Democrats, who have already lost their public option -- and are bound to lose even more in this process. The president has promised (finally) to truly lead in these discussions -- and he likes the Senate version of reform better than House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's vision.

    But here's the real problem for the president: It looks tacky. It's not exactly the way he promised Washington would work. Or, as a clearly miffed Pelosi put it yesterday, when asked about the president's campaign pledge to keep government an open book: "There were a number of things he was for on the campaign trail." Ouch.

    Let's review. During the campaign, candidate Obama chastised Vice President Dick Cheney for presiding over "secret energy meetings" with oil executives at the White House. Yet in June, as Newsweek reported, the administration balked at releasing the names of coal execs who had visited the White House -- only to relent a few months later.

    During the campaign, the president promised to break down the wall, and allow Americans to watch on TV as legislation was made. "We'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies."

    Whoops. C-SPAN has asked for just that kind of access during these final negotiations (now that they've gone underground). Brian Lamb, the network's chairman, wrote to congressional leaders to complain that taking the final process behind closed doors was unacceptable, given that this legislation will "affect the lives of every single American." It looks like the answer to his plea was "go away."

    The danger for the White House is that C-SPAN won't be the only one who feels disappointed.

    The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Gloria Borger.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm sure that Republicans won't vote for the bill no matter what. But regardless of what the GOP will or won't do, it's simply not what was promised by Obama.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I did not carry water for Bush. He was a better choice for me than Al Gore or John Kerry.
    Based on what? I submit either one could have gone into the Oval Office and slept for eight years and done less damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I also voiced my displeasure with many of his decisions as well.
    Really? Point us to the numerous threads you (or any other conservative) started detailing your displeasure with Bush.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    And I am not broke, nor am I unemployed, nor am I buried in debt (as I am debt free for 3 months - owing nobody any money), I have a stellar 800+ credit rating, a job, and I rent an apartment so that I can save to buy my house.
    I didn't say YOU were. I said many folks LIKE YOU who carried water for Bush the last eight years.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I do have a future as well.
    See above post.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    It does not suck to be a conservative.
    Really? So whose your white knight that's going to take out the President. Even the chair of the GOP states he believes the GOP will not get a majority in congress after this year's elections.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I have seen in the past year unemployment skyrocket to well abovee 10%, increased national debt and deficits, banks taking bailout money and not lending, foreclosures skyrocket, and a myriad of other issues. All while the Democrats have had "control" of both houses of Congress for the past 3 years, and the Presidency for the past 11 months and 14 days.

    You also did not answer the question as to how long I should give the Democrats to do what they said they would do. How hypocritically typical of you.
    At least as long as it took for the previous administration to screw it up. Building always takes longer than destroying.
    Last edited by scfire86; 01-07-2010 at 08:35 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yes, and the stupid Americna Public bought it.

    How is this for open debate Sources: Obama, Dems to sidestep GOP on health care

    Best part is when it is shown to be a failure and they pass a bill that is opposed by a majority of Americans the only people to blame will be Democrats. Majority of Americans Still Not Backing Healthcare Bill
    Run along idiotboy. Hooterville misses you.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Really? Point us to the numerous threads you (or any other conservative) started detailing your displeasure with Bush.
    We have discussed, and you have acknowledged, that I expressed displeasure with the Bush administration over spending, immigration policies and the strategy in the war in Iraq. That doesn't mean I didn't overall support the administration, but I was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "water-carryer".

    Based on what?
    Reality.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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