1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default Honest, Open Obama Administration

    Democratic Leaders Plan Secret Health Reform Deliberations
    January 04, 2010 05:45 PM ET | Peter Roff | Permanent Link | Print
    By Peter Roff, Thomas Jefferson Street blog

    Despite their claims to the contrary, the way that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid have handled the healthcare bill has been anything but transparent. And, if the left-wing blogosphere is to be believed, the two congressional leaders intend to keep the deliberations secret as they try to merge the House and Senate versions of the legislation into something that will pass both chambers.

    The Talking Points Memo website reported Monday that Democrats in both the House and Senate are saying the process will likely follow the path of the House taking up the Senate-passed legislation, amending it and sending it back to the Senate, which will have to pass it again. "This process cuts out the Republicans," a House Democratic aide told TPM, indicating the congressional majority intended to make sure the Republican minority would "not have a motion to recommit opportunity."

    It also, say those who are following the issue, allows Pelosi to avoid having to cut deals with problematic House Democrats like Michigan's Bart Stupak, who has promised to do what he can to scuttle the final bill if it provides for federal funding of abortions.

    Henry Waxman, the chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, is saying much the same thing, according to David Dayen at FireDogLake, another prominent left-wing website.

    Dayen reported that the powerful California Democrat told constituents he would be coming back to Washington Tuesday to begin negotiations with Senate leaders and the White House about what a final healthcare bill will look like—even though the House doesn't come back into session until January 12.

    According to Waxman, the process for moving will not include the standard House/Senate conference committee, because the motions to select and instruct conferees in the Senate "would need 60 votes all over again." Instead, whatever agreements made could be packaged in an amendment to the bills passed by the House and Senate.

    By blocking out the Republicans—not to mention House Democrats who object to what the Senate passed—Pelosi and Reid are setting up a protracted game of "ping-pong," in which the legislation goes back and forth from the Senate to the House and back to the Senate again. They may be able to prevail as far as the legislation goes, ultimately, but at enormous cost to their majorities. And that may be the biggest secret of all as far as the healthcare debate is concerned, or at least the one Pelosi and Reid are most concerned about.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Can you imagine the uproar by the MoveOn.org crowd if the GOP tried this? Remember when Pres. Obama declared that this administration would be the most open and honest and that he would take the negotiations out of the back room and put them on CSPAN???

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Could you point us to the outrage from the MoveOn.org crowd when HR 5005 was signed into law?

    From the CQ Alamanac:

    H.R. 5005, Homeland Security Act (creating Department of Homeland Security) - signed into law on November 25, 2002.

    The House passed its version of the bill on July 26, 2002, by a vote of 295 to 132. The Senate took up the bill in September, but was deadlocked on issues such as employee rights at the department, so the bill was taken off the floor.

    Then, after the November election, when Republicans regained control of the Senate, as the CQ Almanac points out, "[President] Bush directed Republican leaders to reconcile the House and Senate bills."

    The House and Senate Republican leaders then worked feverishly, with no conference committee, to reconcile the two bills. A bill reflecting a reconciliation of the House and Senate bills was then developed and agreed to by the House and Senate Republican leadership.
    The GOP caucus has stated their intention is to kill the legislation or delay it till the sun burns out. Whichever comes first.

    I completely understand why this is being done.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Could you point us to the outrage from the MoveOn.org crowd when HR 5005 was signed into law?
    To be fair to Bush and the GOP, they never made any promises of the kind that Obama has made regarding open meetings.

    Edited to add: I voted for Obama because of health care reform, but I still would like to know what it is they are working on. Just because I support Obama on that front does not mean that I trust them to come up with a solution behind closed doors.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Could you point us to the outrage from the MoveOn.org crowd when HR 5005 was signed into law?

    From the CQ Alamanac:



    The GOP caucus has stated their intention is to kill the legislation or delay it till the sun burns out. Whichever comes first.

    I completely understand why this is being done.
    With all due respect, this is how you respond to most of the points brought up about the Obama Administration.

    Pres. Bush didn't promise to put negotiations on TV.

    Pres. Bush wasn't trying to pass a bill which over 70% (depending on the poll) of the Amercian public is against.

    You will argue that over 70% is a false figure.

    We will have to wait until November to watch what that 70% does to Congress. I am fairly certain it will be a Democrat bloodbath-far worse than 1994.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    With all due respect, this is how you respond to most of the points brought up about the Obama Administration.

    Pres. Bush didn't promise to put negotiations on TV.

    Pres. Bush wasn't trying to pass a bill which over 70% (depending on the poll) of the Amercian public is against.

    You will argue that over 70% is a false figure.

    We will have to wait until November to watch what that 70% does to Congress. I am fairly certain it will be a Democrat bloodbath-far worse than 1994.
    As numerous conservatives on these boards have pointed out, the President doesn't control congress.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    As numerous conservatives on these boards have pointed out, the President doesn't control congress.
    But the President is agreeing to these closed door meetings.

    Why can't he tell Congress "No Meetings unless they are public"? It's what he promised. It has nothing to do with Congress, it has everything to do with Obama agreeing to closed doors meetings.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    As numerous conservatives on these boards have pointed out, the President doesn't control congress.
    He can if he chose to. After all, that is how he got several members of Congress to vote in favor of this bill, isn't it?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    He can if he chose to. After all, that is how he got several members of Congress to vote in favor of this bill, isn't it?
    Not according to folks like idiotboy, moonbat, and others. Remember how they criticized me as being ignorant of how government works when I brought up the spending bills passed into law during the Bush years.

    So it goes now.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Not according to folks like idiotboy, moonbat, and others. Remember how they criticized me as being ignorant of how government works when I brought up the spending bills passed into law during the Bush years.

    So it goes now.
    Since when do you worry about what others, especially that bunch, think of you?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Not according to folks like idiotboy, moonbat, and others. Remember how they criticized me as being ignorant of how government works when I brought up the spending bills passed into law during the Bush years.

    So it goes now.
    But for the past 3 years you made excuses as to why the Democrats have made no effort to control the deficit or debt in any of the past 3 annual budgets that they have sent to a President. One of which was to a member of their own party.

    All the while criticizing the Republicans for the manner in which they ****ed away money "like a drunken sailor" as they described it. Now they spend just as much, add just as much to our deficit and debt, and have no qualms about it.

    And you say that it is OK to do so, defending them with the addage that you cannot change 8 years so quickly. Well, you have had 3 years of controlling the budget process to do so.......Exactly how long should I give them to do it?


    If the mornonic half wits in Congress, of either party, were serious about controlling spending (which they are not for the most part) they would want to kill our deficit and debt and take the money and apply it to pay for healthcare "reform" that would actually cover every citizen and LEGAL resident in the United States.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/1..._n_367249.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/bu...ates.html?_r=1

    The Republicans screwed the pooch on their chance to do it, while saying they would. And in the past 3 years the Democrats have opted to do NOTHING about our debt and deficit.......except to add to both.

    Yet you only criticize the Republicans for doing it, and make excuses for Democrats to do the exact same thing they decried 3 or 4 years ago. Love the hypocracy of ideologues.
    Last edited by DaSharkie; 01-06-2010 at 12:05 PM.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    I'm sure these are all out of context...

    http://www.breitbart.tv/the-c-span-l...-negotiations/
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I'm sure these are all out of context...

    http://www.breitbart.tv/the-c-span-l...-negotiations/
    Obama promised televised hearings. Congress didn't.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    .......
    I can understand your frustration after carrying water for Bush the last 8 years. Your leaders left many of you broke,unemployed, buried in debts, no credits, no jobs, no homes…plus no future.

    Best part is they left town before you realized it was too late and now you're focusing your anger on the person tasked with cleaning up that mess.

    Sucks to be a conservative.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Since when do you worry about what others, especially that bunch, think of you?
    I don't. I just enjoy giving back. I'm a giver that way.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  15. #15
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Obama promised televised hearings. Congress didn't.
    Yes, and the stupid Americna Public bought it.

    How is this for open debate Sources: Obama, Dems to sidestep GOP on health care

    Best part is when it is shown to be a failure and they pass a bill that is opposed by a majority of Americans the only people to blame will be Democrats. Majority of Americans Still Not Backing Healthcare Bill

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I can understand your frustration after carrying water for Bush the last 8 years. Your leaders left many of you broke,unemployed, buried in debts, no credits, no jobs, no homes…plus no future.

    Best part is they left town before you realized it was too late and now you're focusing your anger on the person tasked with cleaning up that mess.

    Sucks to be a conservative.
    I did not carry water for Bush. He was a better choice for me than Al Gore or John Kerry.

    I also voiced my displeasure with many of his decisions as well.

    And I am not broke, nor am I unemployed, nor am I buried in debt (as I am debt free for 3 months - owing nobody any money), I have a stellar 800+ credit rating, a job, and I rent an apartment so that I can save to buy my house.

    I do have a future as well.

    It does not suck to be a conservative.

    I have seen in the past year unemployment skyrocket to well abovee 10%, increased national debt and deficits, banks taking bailout money and not lending, foreclosures skyrocket, and a myriad of other issues. All while the Democrats have had "control" of both houses of Congress for the past 3 years, and the Presidency for the past 11 months and 14 days.

    You also did not answer the question as to how long I should give the Democrats to do what they said they would do. How hypocritically typical of you.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,439

    Default

    Editor's note: Gloria Borger is a senior political analyst for CNN, appearing regularly on CNN's "The Situation Room," "Campbell Brown," "AC360°" and "State of the Union With John King," as well as during special event coverage.

    Washington (CNN) -- After months of writing a huge health care bill largely behind closed doors in the Senate, now comes the decision to work out the final kinks in the massive bill in a conference committee -- behind closed doors.

    Maybe it shouldn't stun us. After all, the Democrats didn't expect any help from the Republicans, anyway. And why should they? They haven't gotten any so far, and that won't change.

    The GOP has found a pretty good gig in dissing President Obama and the Democrats as big-spending, deficit-producing, high-taxing liberals. They're not about to give up the golden message now -- particularly when it appears they're heading into a very lucrative campaign season.

    So the Democrats will hold an "informal" conference so they can fast-track the process. After closed door meetings to reconcile the bills, the House would then pass the Senate bill (already amended with new compromise provisions). Then, the package would be sent back to the Senate for a final vote.

    Presto, health care reform.

    The Republicans will complain, which is to be expected. But they're not on terra firma on this one, given that none are expected to vote for any final product, no matter what it is.

    The folks who could get truly shafted here are the liberal Democrats, who have already lost their public option -- and are bound to lose even more in this process. The president has promised (finally) to truly lead in these discussions -- and he likes the Senate version of reform better than House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's vision.

    But here's the real problem for the president: It looks tacky. It's not exactly the way he promised Washington would work. Or, as a clearly miffed Pelosi put it yesterday, when asked about the president's campaign pledge to keep government an open book: "There were a number of things he was for on the campaign trail." Ouch.

    Let's review. During the campaign, candidate Obama chastised Vice President Dick Cheney for presiding over "secret energy meetings" with oil executives at the White House. Yet in June, as Newsweek reported, the administration balked at releasing the names of coal execs who had visited the White House -- only to relent a few months later.

    During the campaign, the president promised to break down the wall, and allow Americans to watch on TV as legislation was made. "We'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies."

    Whoops. C-SPAN has asked for just that kind of access during these final negotiations (now that they've gone underground). Brian Lamb, the network's chairman, wrote to congressional leaders to complain that taking the final process behind closed doors was unacceptable, given that this legislation will "affect the lives of every single American." It looks like the answer to his plea was "go away."

    The danger for the White House is that C-SPAN won't be the only one who feels disappointed.

    The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Gloria Borger.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm sure that Republicans won't vote for the bill no matter what. But regardless of what the GOP will or won't do, it's simply not what was promised by Obama.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I did not carry water for Bush. He was a better choice for me than Al Gore or John Kerry.
    Based on what? I submit either one could have gone into the Oval Office and slept for eight years and done less damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I also voiced my displeasure with many of his decisions as well.
    Really? Point us to the numerous threads you (or any other conservative) started detailing your displeasure with Bush.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    And I am not broke, nor am I unemployed, nor am I buried in debt (as I am debt free for 3 months - owing nobody any money), I have a stellar 800+ credit rating, a job, and I rent an apartment so that I can save to buy my house.
    I didn't say YOU were. I said many folks LIKE YOU who carried water for Bush the last eight years.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I do have a future as well.
    See above post.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    It does not suck to be a conservative.
    Really? So whose your white knight that's going to take out the President. Even the chair of the GOP states he believes the GOP will not get a majority in congress after this year's elections.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I have seen in the past year unemployment skyrocket to well abovee 10%, increased national debt and deficits, banks taking bailout money and not lending, foreclosures skyrocket, and a myriad of other issues. All while the Democrats have had "control" of both houses of Congress for the past 3 years, and the Presidency for the past 11 months and 14 days.

    You also did not answer the question as to how long I should give the Democrats to do what they said they would do. How hypocritically typical of you.
    At least as long as it took for the previous administration to screw it up. Building always takes longer than destroying.
    Last edited by scfire86; 01-07-2010 at 09:35 AM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yes, and the stupid Americna Public bought it.

    How is this for open debate Sources: Obama, Dems to sidestep GOP on health care

    Best part is when it is shown to be a failure and they pass a bill that is opposed by a majority of Americans the only people to blame will be Democrats. Majority of Americans Still Not Backing Healthcare Bill
    Run along idiotboy. Hooterville misses you.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Really? Point us to the numerous threads you (or any other conservative) started detailing your displeasure with Bush.
    We have discussed, and you have acknowledged, that I expressed displeasure with the Bush administration over spending, immigration policies and the strategy in the war in Iraq. That doesn't mean I didn't overall support the administration, but I was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "water-carryer".

    Based on what?
    Reality.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Editor's note: Gloria Borger is a senior political analyst for CNN, appearing regularly on CNN's "The Situation Room," "Campbell Brown," "AC360°" and "State of the Union With John King," as well as during special event coverage.
    ............
    I thought CNN was part of the liberal media? Hmmmmm.....maybe not so liberal after all.

    She ends with what was promised by Obama. As numerous conservatives on these boards have stated, the President doesn't control congress. Obama made the promise. Congress is under no obligation to oblige.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  22. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I thought CNN was part of the liberal media? Hmmmmm.....maybe not so liberal after all.

    She ends with what was promised by Obama. As numerous conservatives on these boards have stated, the President doesn't control congress. Obama made the promise. Congress is under no obligation to oblige.
    I think you need to modify your response to:

    As numerous conservatives on these boards have stated, the President doesn't control congress WHEN THE OPPOSITION PARTY CONTROLS IT.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  23. #23
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Based on what? I submit either one could have gone into the Oval Office and slept for eight years and done less damage.
    You "submit" it based upon what? How you feel? Wow. And you say you don't like dealing with hypotheticals.

    As for Al Gore, well when he ran for President he had changed completely from the relatively conservative Southern Democrat he was for years as a Senator. I also did not like his stances as he stated them when he ran.

    As for one John Forbes "Liveshot" Kerry, after being a Senator for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and essentially doing nothing for the almost 20 years prior to running for the Presidency I figured he sucked as a Senator, and wouldn't exactly do much as a President. I also disagreed with his stances on many positions.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Really?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Point us to the numerous threads you (or any other conservative) started detailing your displeasure with Bush.
    I will point you to them when you post supporting documentation showing that I "carried water" for Bush. I am tired of your pathetic statements insinuating fact or how I feel without supporting them.

    And if you judge how I feel based upon the number of threads I started then you need to get a life. I may have voiced them in posts and coversations as well. But you feel free to go back through the posts to find them. And be sure to post links to them.

    You made the first accusation, so you be sure to do the work first. I doubt that you will, but then again I won't be surprised.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I didn't say YOU were. I said many folks LIKE YOU who carried water for Bush the last eight years.
    No you did not say that I was. I pointed out that I was not in the position that you claim conservatives are in. I have many friends, aquaintances, and coworkers in better positions now then they were 9 years ago when Mr. Bush was elected President. Even while supporting or detracting many of his policies.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    See above post.
    See above post.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Really? So whose your white knight that's going to take out the President. Even the chair of the GOP states he believes the GOP will not get a majority in congress after this year's elections.
    I didn't say I had a white night. I have never claimed to have one. I have only stated that the policies and actions of the nitwit career moronic politicians of both parties in Congress and the Senate will have some reconing to deal with in November.

    As for the Presidency, well Mr. Obama was an unknown to almost anyone outside of Chicago and Illinois until 2004. And there are still 3 years before the election. Mr. Obama's actions in the past 11 months and 13 days have not done a lot to engender a lot of support for him. Every major poll - and we all know how you feel about polls - shows his support at less than 50% nationally, while many still respect him and find him personable. It might not take much to beat him in the election of 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    At least as long as it took for the previous administration to screw it up. Building always takes longer than destroying.
    Right. I love how you have chosen to avoid the inaction of Congress to reverse the increasing debt and deficit during the past 3 budgets that they have had control of. Especially while through the past 8 years you decried the moronic Republican's pathetic inability to budget appropriately.

    The Dems were elected, and ran on the premise - in part, to reverse our ridiculously out of control deficit spending. So we spend rougly $1,000,000,000,000 per year strictly on paying our debt. Mr. Bush and the Congress opted to **** away the PROJECTED budget surplus that existed before the recession that began in March of 2000. I'd have some respect for the Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Reid and the remaining bunch of career morons if they actually kept their word. But being Politicians, I know they won't so I cannot say that I am disappointed or surprised in them.

    Nothing will change next month when the next budget comes around. A larger budget, fewer receipts and collections, and bigger debt. Surprise, surprise the deficit will grow as well adding ANOTHER $1,000,000,000,000 to our debt. You said it was wrong to do so under Mr. Bush, but have absolutely no problem with Democrats doing it. You statements defending this action are nothing more than that it takes time to do it. Well, it will be 4 budgets come 2010 and our debt will still have blossomed. And you will still defend the actions with a pathetic excuse. And you will still not answer the question as to how long before I should take to criticize the Congress for not correcting their inaction. All I get is "at least as long. Well that was 6 years. We are getting close. The Dems had control of Congress for Mr. Bush's last 2 years in office and did nothing. So come the 2012 election I get to really go after the Dems for their inaction because at that time it will be 6 years that they were "in power" and f@cked the taxpayer over just as much as the Republicans without doing a thing about it.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  24. #24
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    We have discussed, and you have acknowledged, that I expressed displeasure with the Bush administration over spending, immigration policies and the strategy in the war in Iraq. That doesn't mean I didn't overall support the administration, but I was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "water-carryer".
    Din't waste your time George. You have dealt with him long enough to know that he does not feel the same. Anyone or any group that said or did anything to support Mr. Bush is automatically a "water carryer."

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Reality.
    Now, now George. He does not like reality.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  25. #25
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    You "submit" it based upon what? How you feel? Wow. And you say you don't like dealing with hypotheticals.
    Based upon the policies of the previous adminstration. Bush was left a balanced budget. He squandered it and increased spending.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    As for Al Gore, well when he ran for President he had changed completely from the relatively conservative Southern Democrat he was for years as a Senator. I also did not like his stances as he stated them when he ran.
    So you preferred someone who advocated cutting revenue and increasing expenditures? Gotcha.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    As for one John Forbes "Liveshot" Kerry, after being a Senator for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and essentially doing nothing for the almost 20 years prior to running for the Presidency I figured he sucked as a Senator, and wouldn't exactly do much as a President. I also disagreed with his stances on many positions.
    See above post. Bush was a failure at every venture in his life prior to getting elected president. His presidency will be remembered with a similar perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I will point you to them when you post supporting documentation showing that I "carried water" for Bush. I am tired of your pathetic statements insinuating fact or how I feel without supporting them.
    Then point me to the numerous threads you started bashing Bush. Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    And if you judge how I feel based upon the number of threads I started then you need to get a life. I may have voiced them in posts and coversations as well. But you feel free to go back through the posts to find them. And be sure to post links to them.
    You're the one claiming to be bi-partisan in your criticism. Your actions don't bely your words.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    No you did not say that I was. I pointed out that I was not in the position that you claim conservatives are in. I have many friends, aquaintances, and coworkers in better positions now then they were 9 years ago when Mr. Bush was elected President. Even while supporting or detracting many of his policies.
    Then I wasn't referring to them either.


    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I didn't say I had a white night. I have never claimed to have one. I have only stated that the policies and actions of the nitwit career moronic politicians of both parties in Congress and the Senate will have some reconing to deal with in November.
    Meaning?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    As for the Presidency, well Mr. Obama was an unknown to almost anyone outside of Chicago and Illinois until 2004. And there are still 3 years before the election. Mr. Obama's actions in the past 11 months and 13 days have not done a lot to engender a lot of support for him. Every major poll - and we all know how you feel about polls - shows his support at less than 50% nationally, while many still respect him and find him personable. It might not take much to beat him in the election of 2012.
    His numbers mirror Ronald Reagan's at similar points in their administration.


    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Right. I love how you have chosen to avoid the inaction of Congress to reverse the increasing debt and deficit during the past 3 budgets that they have had control of. Especially while through the past 8 years you decried the moronic Republican's pathetic inability to budget appropriately.
    What's to discuss. I understand why it is being done. I don't approve it. A multi trillion dollar hole was blown in the economy by the previous administration's lack of oversight. It has to be filled in order to prevent a complete collapse.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    The Dems were elected, and ran on the premise - in part, to reverse our ridiculously out of control deficit spending. So we spend rougly $1,000,000,000,000 per year strictly on paying our debt. Mr. Bush and the Congress opted to **** away the PROJECTED budget surplus that existed before the recession that began in March of 2000. I'd have some respect for the Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Reid and the remaining bunch of career morons if they actually kept their word. But being Politicians, I know they won't so I cannot say that I am disappointed or surprised in them.
    Seeing as how they are acting just like their conservative counterparts, you should be praising them.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Nothing will change next month when the next budget comes around. A larger budget, fewer receipts and collections, and bigger debt. Surprise, surprise the deficit will grow as well adding ANOTHER $1,000,000,000,000 to our debt. You said it was wrong to do so under Mr. Bush, but have absolutely no problem with Democrats doing it. You statements defending this action are nothing more than that it takes time to do it. Well, it will be 4 budgets come 2010 and our debt will still have blossomed. And you will still defend the actions with a pathetic excuse. And you will still not answer the question as to how long before I should take to criticize the Congress for not correcting their inaction. All I get is "at least as long. Well that was 6 years. We are getting close. The Dems had control of Congress for Mr. Bush's last 2 years in office and did nothing. So come the 2012 election I get to really go after the Dems for their inaction because at that time it will be 6 years that they were "in power" and f@cked the taxpayer over just as much as the Republicans without doing a thing about it.
    See above post.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Open Houses
    By RobbyJR307 in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-09-2003, 02:07 PM
  2. Open House...
    By WFDjr1 in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-20-2002, 05:44 PM
  3. Fire Prevention Open Houses
    By RES13CUE in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-09-2002, 06:13 PM
  4. Open house
    By Axlfire in forum Fire Prevention and Life Safety
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-08-2002, 12:42 PM
  5. Do you open the roof?
    By Plug-Ugly in forum Fireground Tactics
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 06-06-2001, 08:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register