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    Default Percentage of Lights out on an apparatus before removed from service

    Does any one know the specific percentage of emergency lights to be out on your apparatus before it should be removed from service?

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    No official percentage. When something goes out, I drive two towns over to Whelen HQ in Chester and pick up a replacement
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Not sure of any official standard. But when we discover something burned out on a daily check, we simply change it on the spot if it's an easily re-lampable type of light AND we have the bulb on hand. Spotlight bulbs, front flashers, rear rotators, etc are quick and easy changes. The only thing we would likley not tackle on the spot would be a bulb or strobe tube in a lightbar since just removing the dome on some bars takes so much time that if you got a call, you would have abandon the relamp right then and there and run with no dome. That problem is worse if it's raining.

    Most of our lamps are LED now anyhow so they should easily outlast the apparatus they are mounted on anyhow.

    Headlight bulbs should always be chagned in pairs so if one goes out, we change them both. The idea being they were installed at the same time and typically burn out close to the same time. The other issue is new bulbs are typicaly brighter then older bulbs with alot of hours on them.

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    I don't understand why you want to know......If there is more than 1 or 2 lights out, maintenance is not being done properly. If you have to ask, its WAY too many.
    Buck
    Assistant Chief/EMT-B

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frmboybuck View Post
    I don't understand why you want to know......If there is more than 1 or 2 lights out, maintenance is not being done properly. If you have to ask, its WAY too many.
    I agree with buck.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    unless it was a catastrophic failure of something big in the system (i.e. all the lower level lighting is strobe and the pack went out) you should have replacement bulbs at the ready. Like the others said if you have to ask it is too many.

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    I dont have the problem, someone asked me the question and i didnt have the answer so i was wondering if there was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micahwo5 View Post
    I dont have the problem, someone asked me the question and i didnt have the answer so i was wondering if there was.
    1901 is the standard on apparatus. NFPA will allow you to read them on line, then you can be informed.

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    I don't understand why you wouldn't just replace something that breaks when it breaks. If light goes out, replace it. What is the purpose of waiting for a percentage? Do you get a discount for buying light bulbs in bulk?????
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    I don't understand why you wouldn't just replace something that breaks when it breaks. If light goes out, replace it. What is the purpose of waiting for a percentage? Do you get a discount for buying light bulbs in bulk?????
    Exactly. Do you wait for a percentage of the light bulbs in your house to blow before you change them all????????
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Well, yes actually I do but thats because I'm too cheap and lazy to go buy more light bulbs.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    When a bulb goes out, it's replaced immediately if we have it on hand (which most we do). If not, and it's only one bulb, it's replaced as soon as we can get a replacement bulb, which is usually the next day. If there's some sort of electrical problem and we lose an entire section of lights, then the apparatus would be placed out of service and it would be repaired immediately.

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    Default Bring it on.....

    If your light bar is inop, you're OOS. If you lose all your lower warning lights, you're OOS. If you lose all of your rear warning lights, you're OOS. And if any of the above happens, I better get a phone call ASAP.

    Our guys check the lights on each shift change while doing their daily checks. If one or more lights are out, they send a request for replacement or repair on it. I'll get it that afternoon when I start, and make the bulb/strobe/wiring repair, as needed.

    We don't allow the FF's to change any of the emergency lights, especially strobe lights. This is for their own good and safety. I don't know how many times I've seen and or heard about a FF touching a strobe light either active or just turned off, to get the shock of their life.

    I don't do headlights in pairs, and won't. Usually it isn't that the bulb served its useful life, it is the beating that the headlights take, that usually kills them. I've yet to see where it is cost effective to replace both at the same time. I do however check to make sure they are very close in intensity.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    If a light burns out, we replace the bulb as soon as it is found or as soon as we are notified. We try and maintain spare bulbs for all of the different lights we have. Some of the one of a kinds we don't stock. Anything more than a bulb out and we put the truck out of service and repair the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    If your light bar is inop, you're OOS. If you lose all your lower warning lights, you're OOS. If you lose all of your rear warning lights, you're OOS. And if any of the above happens, I better get a phone call ASAP.

    Our guys check the lights on each shift change while doing their daily checks. If one or more lights are out, they send a request for replacement or repair on it. I'll get it that afternoon when I start, and make the bulb/strobe/wiring repair, as needed.

    We don't allow the FF's to change any of the emergency lights, especially strobe lights. This is for their own good and safety. I don't know how many times I've seen and or heard about a FF touching a strobe light either active or just turned off, to get the shock of their life.

    I don't do headlights in pairs, and won't. Usually it isn't that the bulb served its useful life, it is the beating that the headlights take, that usually kills them. I've yet to see where it is cost effective to replace both at the same time. I do however check to make sure they are very close in intensity.

    FM1
    This is my regimen as well. If our guys want to change the lights out, they can if they know what they are doing. If they are dumb enough to try and change them with the unit on, my only complaint is not being there to watch.
    Buck
    Assistant Chief/EMT-B

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    We don't allow the FF's to change any of the emergency lights, especially strobe lights. This is for their own good and safety. I don't know how many times I've seen and or heard about a FF touching a strobe light either active or just turned off, to get the shock of their life.
    FM1
    I must admit one of the best shocks I've ever gotten was from a strobe pack. BTW: it doesn't have to be on, as they must have capacitors with drain times. Nice little white crispy burns on two fingers and a thumb!

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    Oh please. I've been whacked by strobe packs so many times I don't even feel it any more. It hurts the first few hundred times but after that its ok. The real high power regulated whelen ISP series packs are really fun!
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    we are not allowed to change light bulbs on the trucks either. That is the job of the mechanics at the shop. At the start of the day during truck checks we list the lights that are out on the check offs and "gig list" that goes to with the truck to the shop when the truck is OOS.
    If the truck has so many lights that are out that the driver and officer feel it is unsafe to operate in emergency mode. then the officer calls the fleet captain and lets him know. usually the truck is then placed oos and the truck is taken to the shop and the lights are repaired. On rare occasions the need for the truck due to other similar types of units are OOS the truck remains inservice and is taken out as soon as possible. However that decison is made well above the company officers pay grade. the officer has CYA'd himself by noifying and documenting. if the powers to be say run it we run it.

    Most of the time it is a mute point i have full confidence that our truck will leak, make some nosie, or just plain crap out and have to go to the shop. then the gig list of things will get repaired before the number of lights out affects the serviablity of the unit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C
    [EDITED for content by FM1] We are not allowed to change light bulbs on the trucks either. That is the job of the mechanics at the shop.
    If the truck has so many lights that are out that the driver and officer feel it is unsafe to operate in emergency mode. then the officer calls the fleet captain and lets him know. usually the truck is then placed oos and the truck is taken to the shop and the lights are repaired.
    Do your mechanics ever make House Calls????

    My main responsibility is to make repairs that can be made, at the station. 50% of them is the repair of the emergency lights. The other 50% can be anything from pressure relief valves not working, primers inop, leaking valves, charge handles that don't move, foam systems that don't flow or work, out riggers that won't deploy, ladders that won't extend, but will elevate, generators that don't work, or can't handle a load, etc. I even go on scene when a rig develops a problem.

    There is no excuse to go OOS because of lights, unless there is a catastrophic loss of your lights.

    On a lighter note: I got a repair request for a Med unit that lost it's intersection strobe light. With the Med out of service to make the repair, the Capt decided he would save me some time, and take off the strobe light cover. I was fine with that.

    When I got there, he decided to show me the problem. It flashed once every 3-10 seconds, instead of 2 quick flashes, a pause, and 2 more quick flashes. Then to point out the problem, he grabbed the strobe, still on and active.

    As quick as I wanted to yell stop, it was too late. But in my head at that same instant, I thought "boy are you going to pay for that".

    And he did, while dancing, jumping, and cursing all over the place.

    I won't even touch them till they have been off for 10 minutes. And to date, I haven't been bitten once.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    No our mechanics do not make house calls. We drive the unit to the shop and are then sent back out in our 2nd unit to return to service. The only time a mechanic comes out into the field is if the truck is going to be towed. They will look at it before the tow truck is called and try to fix it, to limp it to the shop. Like i stated above the lights are changed when the truck is sent in for something else. The only reason a piece would be removed from service for a number of emergency lights being out would more then likely due to some form of electrical malfunction, not blown light bulbs. Our trucks go to the shop far to much for that many lights to be blown at one time. the bulbs are replaced then along with other items on the "gig list".

    Usually the "gig List" has on it items such a broken or loose brackets, odd noises noted during operations, broken handles, cab doors that are hard to close/open, mirrors that are shaking and cant be tightened, leaking windows or cab doors, etc. The things that do not warrant removal from service. Usually it is up to the driver to check the gig list when we pick it up to see if these items have been fixed. Items that have not been fixed the officer will ask the shop about. Often times the shop is very busy and the mechanics are just trying to get the units back on the street. So the non-important items are not fixed.


    Our department has 20 quint companies and 3 rescue companies. Each quint company has either a 75ft or 105ft quint (except for 2 companies that have tower ladders), then each company has either a class A pumper or an FRV (a compact wanna be engine with a 500 GPM pto pump).

    All of our fleet was purchased at the same time in 1998. Our fleet is currently starting to show it age from the 11 years of use and abuse on the crappy city streets. Currently the department is looking into another fleet replacement.

    The city shop is resposible for the maintance and repair of the rigs. Repairs that are beyond the scope of the city shop is sent to the manufactor repair shop. These would be item such as cracked torgue boxes, cracked frame crossmembers, Broken axles, tanks that have to be replaced, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C
    Usually the "gig List" has on it items such a broken or loose brackets, odd noises noted during operations, broken handles, cab doors that are hard to close/open, mirrors that are shaking and cant be tightened, leaking windows or cab doors, etc. The things that do not warrant removal from service. Usually it is up to the driver to check the gig list when we pick it up to see if these items have been fixed. Items that have not been fixed the officer will ask the shop about. Often times the shop is very busy and the mechanics are just trying to get the units back on the street. So the non-important items are not fixed.
    So the non-important items are not fixed.

    As a mechanic, I guess I look at it at a different angle. If there is a problem, even with a window that won't roll up or down all the way, I will fix it. If a door or compartment door won't open or close easily, it will.

    While all the above may be minor to your mechanics, I see a bigger picture. I know my FF's like to see everything working as they should. And with that, they know that I will do what I can to make sure that happens.

    I have respect for what my FF's do, and anything I can do to make them happy or more comfortable, I will do. In turn, most of the stations I go to will offer me a pop or food for just being there. They appreciate that I will fix whatever is needed to make their job easier, or keep them from doing a change over.

    There's a difference between doing your job with pride, and doing it to get a paycheck.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    I understand your point completely and agree bro. I by nomeans think that not fixing everything is correct. Or mechanics and fleet captain do everything they can just to keep the trucks running and inservice whilie maitaining a budget. write wrong or indifferent they dont fix everything. My fire department is a down and ditry get the job done type of department. The culture of the firefighter and officers on the line is to do our jobs with up ever the city gives us. If they give us a 1940 pickup truck with a slide in unit guess what that is what we ride and fight fire with. The truck might not have working A/C or the door leaks to the point you get wet but, i will bet you we have some of the most aggressive hardcore fireman riding those trucks. We (the line guys) simpily dont have any control over the maintance of our fleet so we dont get upset about it, however that doesnt stop us from b******* about it, hahah. We have a job to do and a duty to the citizens. Us not running a truck because of a minor comfort issue is a slight burden however it by nomeans am going to deter me or my brothers from doing our jobs.

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    I'd say repair them ASAP.

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    like they said no real percentage, but when one of ours goes out, we usually send for a replacement. now if for some weird reason all or the main ones go out, we will take the unit out of service till they are replaced

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    This will more than likely give you guys a giggle. But it miffed me to no end today.

    When I just started to diagnose a no Telma issue on a truck, dispatch calls me and tells me an engine is OOS, and that the light bar isn't working correctly. OK, I'll check it out.
    When I get there (25 minutes drive time), I had the driver show me the problem. He turned on the light bar, and the 2 center mars type lights were working, and the 6 rotators were working just fine (3 on each side of the mars lights). A little confused, I asked what the problem was. He said to look closely at the lights at the ends of the light bar, "the flashing lights are not working like they are supposed to".

    Before I strangled the guy, I asked him if he showed this to the Capt. before going OOS. He said no, but told the Capt. that there was a problem with the light bar, and he agreed that if there is a problem, then they should be OOS.

    When I had the Capt. come out to look at the light bar, he said "Awesome, you got it fixed". I told him I didn't fix anything, and showed him what the driver was talking about. The Capt. was speechless for a few seconds, then apologized for wasting my time for not checking it himself.

    To say I was "miffed" over the whole thing, is being as polite as possible.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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