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Thread: Backup lines

  1. #41
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    Personally i think some on here are playing the semantics game. We streatch our first line to the fire area. the 2nd line is streatched. That line either goes above the fire if the inital attack line is already confined the fire or protects the stairwell/egress. Which in the case of a typical 2 story sfd it can sometimes due both roles. Save the stairs save the building! That line is use to protect the stairs and egress, as its number 1 priority. With crews searching above the fire, it is EXTREMLY important for a hose line to be in place protecting them. Their lives are literarly in your hands.

    As for the 2.5 in SFD debate. I am a fan of using the 2.5 in SFDs when the fire calls for it. Advanced Fire conditions upon arrival. We will pull a 2.5 for knock down. By streatching this line to a common area of the house, you can hit most of the fire. Think about most houses. They have a common hallway that acesses most areas of the house. from that point you can hit pretty much every area of the house. After knocking down a mojority of the fire you can the pull an 1 3/4 to finish up. You are not streatching that 2.5 into every room and closet. Most of the time in my experience it is only streatched maybe 50-75' into the house. One charged section of 2.5 weights 105lbs. with a smoothbore nozzle and proper techniques one firefighter can operate it from a stationary postition. Two firefighters can move it whilie flowing. In fact with our operations most of the time one guy is streatching the 2.5 to that common area and operating it. I know some of you are reading this saying yea ok. Well i can tell you it can be down i have done it. Three occasions within the last 6 months. All in working fires under high heat and smoke.

    the techniques are very easy. That little voice in the pit of your stomach that says i think i can, i think i can. listen to that voice,dig deep and man up. Also those weights that are sitting in the bay at your station use them. that is why the gave them to you.


  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    Personally i think some on here are playing the semantics game. We streatch our first line to the fire area. the 2nd line is streatched. That line either goes above the fire if the inital attack line is already confined the fire or protects the stairwell/egress. Which in the case of a typical 2 story sfd it can sometimes due both roles. Save the stairs save the building! That line is use to protect the stairs and egress, as its number 1 priority. With crews searching above the fire, it is EXTREMLY important for a hose line to be in place protecting them. Their lives are literarly in your hands.

    As for the 2.5 in SFD debate. I am a fan of using the 2.5 in SFDs when the fire calls for it. Advanced Fire conditions upon arrival. We will pull a 2.5 for knock down. By streatching this line to a common area of the house, you can hit most of the fire. Think about most houses. They have a common hallway that acesses most areas of the house. from that point you can hit pretty much every area of the house. After knocking down a mojority of the fire you can the pull an 1 3/4 to finish up. You are not streatching that 2.5 into every room and closet. Most of the time in my experience it is only streatched maybe 50-75' into the house. One charged section of 2.5 weights 105lbs. with a smoothbore nozzle and proper techniques one firefighter can operate it from a stationary postition. Two firefighters can move it whilie flowing. In fact with our operations most of the time one guy is streatching the 2.5 to that common area and operating it. I know some of you are reading this saying yea ok. Well i can tell you it can be down i have done it. Three occasions within the last 6 months. All in working fires under high heat and smoke.

    the techniques are very easy. That little voice in the pit of your stomach that says i think i can, i think i can. listen to that voice,dig deep and man up. Also those weights that are sitting in the bay at your station use them. that is why the gave them to you.
    I could probably drag a blitzfire in the house too...

    The 2.5 is more then you need for most interior attacks at a sfd. It's not the weight of the individual sections, it's about making bends and dragging all that overkill that I don't like.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  3. #43
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    how is it over kill if you need the back up line to help extinguish the fire. Obviously your inital attack line was not the proper size to extinguish the fire(GPM/Btu). thus your back up line had to come and help put the fire out. And really how many bends and how far are you dragging hose into a typical sfd fire.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    how is it over kill if you need the back up line to help extinguish the fire. Obviously your inital attack line was not the proper size to extinguish the fire(GPM/Btu). thus your back up line had to come and help put the fire out. And really how many bends and how far are you dragging hose into a typical sfd fire.
    One 90 degree bend at the top of a stairwell is all it takes. I've been there and done that and watched a mutual aid company struggle and knock themselves out doing it.

    If two 1.75 lines can't do the job on a single family dwelling (in one area of that dwelling), then you probably should be backing out.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    One 90 degree bend at the top of a stairwell is all it takes. I've been there and done that and watched a mutual aid company struggle and knock themselves out doing it.

    If two 1.75 lines can't do the job on a single family dwelling (in one area of that dwelling), then you probably should be backing out.
    ^^^

    What he said, For us 2 1.75 lines would be 420 gpm if that didn't knock it down quickly then there is a problem and we would need to rethink our plan of attack, and become yardbreathers.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    how is it over kill if you need the back up line to help extinguish the fire. Obviously your inital attack line was not the proper size to extinguish the fire(GPM/Btu). thus your back up line had to come and help put the fire out. And really how many bends and how far are you dragging hose into a typical sfd fire.
    Pretty much depends on what your typical sfd is. I have sfd that are over 5000 sq feet. I also have sfd that are under 1000 sq feet. 1 story up through 3 story. Open floor plan through very compartmentalized floor plan. SFD's that have single straight staircase and 4 turn staircase and circular staircase.

    What is typical?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Pretty much depends on what your typical sfd is. I have sfd that are over 5000 sq feet. I also have sfd that are under 1000 sq feet. 1 story up through 3 story. Open floor plan through very compartmentalized floor plan. SFD's that have single straight staircase and 4 turn staircase and circular staircase.

    What is typical?
    Good point.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  8. #48
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    exactly, my point to say that we dont pull 2.5 in sfds is close minded. the fire is what determines the size line to pull. I have seen a 2.5 pulled on a tractor trailer fire (vehical fire). I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I veiw the 2.5 as a very useful tool, that can give you that greater hit when you need it. I dont see the problems that you are talking about as in one turn at the top of the staircase. Disipline of every firefigther on the attack crew is need to make a 2.5 go smoothly. With an 1 3/4 the backup man, controlman, doorman (whatever positions you have filled) can make small mistakes that usually will not compound to slow the streatch. However with a 2.5 those mistakes are magnified. everyone has to be on the top of your game.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    exactly, my point to say that we dont pull 2.5 in sfds is close minded. the fire is what determines the size line to pull. I have seen a 2.5 pulled on a tractor trailer fire (vehical fire). I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I veiw the 2.5 as a very useful tool, that can give you that greater hit when you need it. I dont see the problems that you are talking about as in one turn at the top of the staircase. Disipline of every firefigther on the attack crew is need to make a 2.5 go smoothly. With an 1 3/4 the backup man, controlman, doorman (whatever positions you have filled) can make small mistakes that usually will not compound to slow the streatch. However with a 2.5 those mistakes are magnified. everyone has to be on the top of your game.
    I think it would be a very rare thing to find a fire in a single family house that needs the deuce and a half for an interior attack. But yes, in those very rare cases, perhaps.

    As for a vehicle fire or tt fire, i've used a deck gun, so no disagreement there.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  10. #50
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    Not seeing the very rare occasions part. If i can get a good knock down with a single 2.5 line compared to two 1 3/4 lines (and having to hear quint # had to come in and help put out your fire!). I am going to break a sweat and get winded by pulling that 2.5. Different though processes equaling the same results. Each to their own.

    The more important point to this thread is the importantace of having that 2nd or 3rd line pulled charged and in place. Either protecting the stairwell, the floor above, or helping to confine the fire. We cannot allow guys to be operating on the floor above the fire without a line in place to protect them. This has resulted in countless deaths and IMO one of the most dangerous places to be on the fire ground (searching above the floor above the fire).

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