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  1. #1
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    Default Closing that company or firehouse won't change anything

    That's what the city of Milwaukee said and over the weekend a civillian lost their life because a ladder company was delayed since it was coming from a different part of town. The ladder company that should have responded was closed last month and the city said that the closing won't have any negative effects on operations. Well the city is now working on reopening companies that were closed and trying to restore staffing to what the union has been saying it should be for years. Good job brothers looks like you have won the fight for now sadly it came from someone losing their life but apparently that's what it takes for the city father to realize that we know what we're talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUCK61 View Post
    That's what the city of Milwaukee said and over the weekend a civillian lost their life because a ladder company was delayed since it was coming from a different part of town. The ladder company that should have responded was closed last month and the city said that the closing won't have any negative effects on operations. Well the city is now working on reopening companies that were closed and trying to restore staffing to what the union has been saying it should be for years. Good job brothers looks like you have won the fight for now sadly it came from someone losing their life but apparently that's what it takes for the city father to realize that we know what we're talking about.
    So in a time when most departments are cutting personnel, yours is adding previously cut positions back, and you are still b*tching?

    Yeah, I am sure you will get a lot of sympathy here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    So in a time when most departments are cutting personnel, yours is adding previously cut positions back, and you are still b*tching?

    Yeah, I am sure you will get a lot of sympathy here.
    Didn't look like "b*tching" to me. I'd say it's more of an "I told you so".

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    So in a time when most departments are cutting personnel, yours is adding previously cut positions back, and you are still b*tching?

    Yeah, I am sure you will get a lot of sympathy here.
    I am curious what exactly of TRUCK61's post was bitching.

    I work in a suburb next door to Milwaukee and they run a lot of fire and to close a ladder company in a busy part of town is simply putting money before public safety. Unfortunately it took deaths to open the city's eyes to what was obvious to the firefighters.
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    does sound like an "I told you so" or bitching because despite the warnings of firefighters the city only saw dollar signs and someone died before they realized the error of their ways.

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    No I'm not bi&^%ing at all and as a matter of fact I don't even work for Milwaukee but I do work close enough to them that I get to hear what goes on. As far as staffing goes for my department I'm in the same bucket as you guys understaffed and they want us to do more. Thanks

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    So every time someone dies in a fire we should open a new station and add staff???

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    One must wonder who at the City level made the statement that closing a house or company wouldn't have any affect on operations. That statement is a flat out lie. You cannot take an active company out of service and not feel some sort of effect, and it will always be a negative on operations.

    If a FD official said this, he/she should be fired. Any official should be questioned making that statement as the taxpayers can then ask why they've been getting fleeced for many years before? If a house can be cut without affecting ops, then why was it there and being paid for. Such foolish things from the mouths of politicians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    So every time someone dies in a fire we should open a new station and add staff???
    God, try and keep up.

    THEY CLOSED A STATION THAT DIRECTLY IMPACTED THE RESPONSE TIME OF THE FIRST DUE LADDER!!!!

    Maybe that isn't enough to keep companies open in a failing economy, but when you (the City Politician be they Fire Chief or City Admin) make a statement that closing the company will have no effect on operations, you were proven wrong in the worst possible way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    So every time someone dies in a fire we should open a new station and add staff???
    Have you followed this story at all or are you just being your usual totally uninformed, ignorant, pot stirring self?

    There was a ladder company there. It was closed and within days fire deaths occured in that rigs response area. The CITY is working on reopening the fire house.

    You see sometimes your usual fishing and trolling operations just make you look like a complete buffoon. Take this case for instance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    So every time someone dies in a fire we should open a new station and add staff???
    I think you are miss reading his post. He is not advocating opening new stations, just going back to the levels prior to the closings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    So every time someone dies in a fire we should open a new station and add staff???
    Your a moron

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    Since the closure of ladder company 10, there have been two fire fatalities, and just yesterday four people were forced to jump from their home for survival. Several with life altering burns, to include full thickness burns to their back; seconds don't count though, right?

    The closure of ladder company 10 was coincided with the brownouts of three additional companies, per day, and the reduction of all other ladder companies to four personnel.

    This is not a statistical "anomaly"; all cities that have enacted closures and brownouts have suffered civilian deaths and injuries, almost immediately. All have suffered an increase in the number of firefighter line-injuries.

    I started a thread on the closure of truck 10 the day it was closed; virtually no one on this forum gave a sh*t. Closing companies and cutting line-staffing will cost lives every single time, and in every single place it happens.
    When will morons and idiots, such as the resident bankrupt "fiscal conservative" learn that staffing is the key to saving lives.


    Probably never.
    Last edited by jasper45; 01-13-2010 at 08:16 PM.

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    Isn't Milwaukee looking for a new Chief or did they already complete that?


    Looks like Donovan was trying to restore Truck 10 before this event. This is from FOX6 on January 10th after an earlier fire.

    Alderman Bob Donovan and the firefighters union spoke out Sunday at a fire house which lost a truck because of budget cuts. They say that crews may have made a difference Saturday. Donovan says ,"Could they have saved this man's life? I don't k now, but I'm not willing to take that risk any longer."

    The mayor says response time hasn't been affected by cuts. As the debate continues back on Clarke St., the neighbors say they'll stick with smoke detectors as their first line of defense.

    Donovan says he's introducing legislation to restore the the ladder truck that is not operating due to budget constraints.
    Last edited by PaladinKnight; 01-13-2010 at 08:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    So every time someone dies in a fire we should open a new station and add staff???
    Groups of letters make words, when you put words together thats called a SENTENCE. Try it sometime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    THEY CLOSED A STATION THAT DIRECTLY IMPACTED THE RESPONSE TIME OF THE FIRST DUE LADDER!!!!
    Absolutely. And what you are trying to say is if the ladder had been closer response time goes down. No arguemnt

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Have you followed this story at all are you just being your usual totally uninformed, ignorant, pot stirring self? YES, I have been following the story and NO I am not trying to stir the pot.

    There was a ladder company there. It was closed and within days fire deaths occured in that rigs response area. The CITY is working on reopening the fire house.
    Making a statement that closing a station will have no effect is silly. However, making a statement that someone would have lived had the station been there is just as silly. I could make the statement that if the firehouse had been closer to the fatal fire then lives would have been saved. I can also say that whenever there is a death in a fire it is because the fire department did not get there fast enough.

    FACT: People will continue to die in fires regardless of how many stations and staff there are.

    This entire issue is all about risk management. There are 4 ways in which to deal with risk, avoidance, reduction, retention, and transfer. In this case the risk is fire.
    • Avoidance means you take deliberate measures to keep the fire away (Building codes, inspections, etc)
    • Reduction means you take measures proactive measures to reduce the loss (Sprinklers, fire extinguishers in buildings, established fire departments))
    • Retention or residual risk, means you accept the remaining risk. This is essentially the risk that is left over from reduction methods.
    • Transfer means you give the risk to someone else, that is you outsource in this case. A special case of transfer includes risk sharing. This is the concept behind insurance and in the fire business mutual aid.

    Understand, you can never eliminate all of the risk. Hence, there will always be residual risk. It all comes down to how much residual risk the entity involved can handle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Groups of letters make words, when you put words together thats called a SENTENCE. Try it sometime.
    And when you put a question mark at the end it becomes a question. What is your point There is absolutely nothing wrong with the statement you question. If there is something wrong with it please enlighten us all.

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    How about commas?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    How about commas?
    Commas are optional... Did I miss one?

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    No they are not, comma's are just as mandatory as any other punctuation. You missed quite a few, by the way.
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    If you guys are going to fight about this or post stupid bu!!***** then don't post. This was meant to raise everyones attention just like Jaspers previous post that even with the economy the worst since the depression that it seems like our essential services are the first to get cut and in some departments they have just cut so much that they just can't function safely or co-ordinated durning an incident and that as loud as we scream that these cuts will cost lives the people including fire chiefs don't give a crap because it's just a game of risk to them. Well in Milwaukee they played and they lost so now it's time to restore the services to where they need to be. What I don't get is this, if before the economy tanked all these fire departments nationwide had functional staffing and then when the economy turned the new tune was we don't need them anymore we'll be fine them why in the first place would they even have had their staffing at what it was? There are a lot of departments still struggling because of cuts and this is a win for us sadly at the cost of peoples lives. This is not ment to be a rub it in the face or I told you so. It's the cold hard truth that staffing puts out fires and saves lives and if you don't understand that then you need to go back to the academy again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    No they are not, comma's are just as mandatory as any other punctuation. You missed quite a few, by the way.
    Where

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    Another relevant firefighting thread ruined by 1 ****ing moron....go figure.

    Since the closure of ladder company 10, there have been two fire fatalities, and just yesterday four people were forced to jump from their home for survival. Several with life altering burns, to include full thickness burns to their back; seconds don't count though, right?

    The closure of ladder company 10 was coincided with the brownouts of three additional companies, per day, and the reduction of all other ladder companies to four personnel.

    This is not a statistical "anomaly"; all cities that have enacted closures and brownouts have suffered civilian deaths and injuries, almost immediately. All have suffered an increase in the number of firefighter line-injuries.
    Pay heed to this, this is right from a Brother that is on the job in Milwaukee. Good bet he would have a realtime idea of the true effects of these cuts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUCK61 View Post
    If you guys are going to fight about this or post stupid bu!!***** then don't post. This was meant to raise everyones attention just like Jaspers previous post that even with the economy the worst since the depression that it seems like our essential services are the first to get cut and in some departments they have just cut so much that they just can't function safely or co-ordinated durning an incident and that as loud as we scream that these cuts will cost lives the people including fire chiefs don't give a crap because it's just a game of risk to them. Well in Milwaukee they played and they lost so now it's time to restore the services to where they need to be. What I don't get is this, if before the economy tanked all these fire departments nationwide had functional staffing and then when the economy turned the new tune was we don't need them anymore we'll be fine them why in the first place would they even have had their staffing at what it was? There are a lot of departments still struggling because of cuts and this is a win for us sadly at the cost of peoples lives. This is not ment to be a rub it in the face or I told you so. It's the cold hard truth that staffing puts out fires and saves lives and if you don't understand that then you need to go back to the academy again.
    Its all about the amount of risk they are willing to accept. When times are good and there is extra cash available then we can do things to reduce risk more. When the cash isn't there you accept more risk.

    No one disagrees that more stations and staffing will save more lives. I would believe that we also agree that we cannot save every life. Somewhere in there lies the real answer as to what is optimum staffing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Another relevant firefighting thread ruined by 1 ****ing moron....go figure.



    Pay heed to this, this is right from a Brother that is on the job in Milwaukee. Good bet he would have a realtime idea of the true effects of these cuts.
    Relevance to fire fighting issues includes available funding. You need to look at both sides of the equation here, it isn't just about having more staff and more stations.

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