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    Default Arizona Has Lost Thier Minds

    I, like some of you I am sure, received the email from Billy today talking about all of the cuts in Arizona's Fire Marshal's Office, which will DIRECTLY impact training and certification accreditation. I didn't realize how bad it was until I read the actual memo:

    http://www.dfbls.az.gov/UserFiles/fi...nouncement.pdf

    I don't even know what to say at the moment. Things can't be THAT bad.

    My biggest question is what does this mean for the firefighters in Arizona?
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    Quote Jack McGee in Backdraft; "John Wayne time, you're on your own boss."

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    I, like some of you I am sure, received the email from Billy today talking about all of the cuts in Arizona's Fire Marshal's Office, which will DIRECTLY impact training and certification accreditation. I didn't realize how bad it was until I read the actual memo:

    http://www.dfbls.az.gov/UserFiles/fi...nouncement.pdf

    I don't even know what to say at the moment. Things can't be THAT bad.

    My biggest question is what does this mean for the firefighters in Arizona?
    It means "screw you guys, you're on your own...."
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Holy crap.......so are they going to do ANYTHING any more?????

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    Unbelievable

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    ...i think i'll be moving soon

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    I notice no one form Arizona is commenting, and those that are haven't investigated that State of Arizona. Like so many states and the federal government they are bloated and have redundancy throughout. How silly to cut the waste.
    Here are some of the other departments that will pick up the slack.

    Building and Fire Safety, Dept. of
    Emergency Management, Division of
    Emergency Response Commission
    Public Safety, Dept. of

    Arizona Agencies

    Those functions are not going away, they will be transferred.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I notice no one form Arizona is commenting, and those that are haven't investigated that State of Arizona. Like so many states and the federal government they are bloated and have redundancy throughout. How silly to cut the waste.
    Here are some of the other departments that will pick up the slack.

    Building and Fire Safety, Dept. of
    Emergency Management, Division of
    Emergency Response Commission
    Public Safety, Dept. of

    Arizona Agencies

    Those functions are not going away, they will be transferred.
    What was the point of this? Are you saying the cuts I linked to are "cutting the waste"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    What was the point of this? Are you saying the cuts I linked to are "cutting the waste"?
    Yes. They have multiple departments all doing the same or similar jobs. Consolidate, eliminate managers, more workers, more efficient. Next step is to reduce the layers of management.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I notice no one form Arizona is commenting, and those that are haven't investigated that State of Arizona. Like so many states and the federal government they are bloated and have redundancy throughout. How silly to cut the waste.
    Here are some of the other departments that will pick up the slack.

    Building and Fire Safety, Dept. of
    Emergency Management, Division of
    Emergency Response Commission
    Public Safety, Dept. of

    Arizona Agencies

    Those functions are not going away, they will be transferred.
    Ahh, now an expert on Arizona State Fire Agencies.

    Of course.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Ahh, now an expert on Arizona State Fire Agencies.

    Of course.
    Yes, and you should also include all of the others who commented on Arizona as well.

    Let me list them for you
    GTRider245
    FiremanLyman
    CaptainGonzo
    pasobuff
    len1582
    legos.8ty7

    You get a pass because you didn't comment on the topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yes, and you should also include all of the others who commented on Arizona as well.

    Let me list them for you
    GTRider245
    FiremanLyman
    CaptainGonzo
    pasobuff
    len1582
    legos.8ty7

    You get a pass because you didn't comment on the topic.
    You might want to add Chief Goldfeder to your list.

    I would take what he and his organization has to say before listening to an "expert" like you.

    http://firefighterclosecalls.com/fullstory.php?100044
    Last edited by FiremanLyman; 01-13-2010 at 10:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yes. They have multiple departments all doing the same or similar jobs. Consolidate, eliminate managers, more workers, more efficient. Next step is to reduce the layers of management.
    Let me just point you to the official statement.

    Please read the paragraph that includes, "..immediately suspend programs.."

    Don't know how you can read that as anything less then there will be LESS programs then there were.

    Don't need to be much of an expert.

    But carry on. Your attacks on fire departments and firefighters everywhere continues.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yes, and you should also include all of the others who commented on Arizona as well.

    Let me list them for you
    GTRider245
    FiremanLyman
    CaptainGonzo
    pasobuff
    len1582
    legos.8ty7

    You get a pass because you didn't comment on the topic.
    At least I have been to Arizona (twice) and have family out there (an uncle who is retired Flagstaff firefighter)
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yes, and you should also include all of the others who commented on Arizona as well.

    Let me list them for you
    GTRider245
    FiremanLyman
    CaptainGonzo
    pasobuff
    len1582
    legos.8ty7

    You get a pass because you didn't comment on the topic.
    Now I am convinced you are not only an idiot, but you cant read either. Nice try, TROLL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    At least I have been to Arizona (twice) and have family out there (an uncle who is retired Flagstaff firefighter)
    Been there several times. My last wife was from there, down around Sierra Vista.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Let me just point you to the official statement.

    Please read the paragraph that includes, "..immediately suspend programs.."

    Don't know how you can read that as anything less then there will be LESS programs then there were.

    Don't need to be much of an expert.

    But carry on. Your attacks on fire departments and firefighters everywhere continues.
    Item 1. b. The position of fire training director will be redirected to work on transitioning to other State Fire Service organizations.

    Not all is lost

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Item 1. b. The position of fire training director will be redirected to work on transitioning to other State Fire Service organizations.

    Not all is lost

    Another toad is posting something that they know nothing about!
    Last edited by Jonnee; 01-14-2010 at 01:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I notice no one form Arizona is commenting, and those that are haven't investigated that State of Arizona. Like so many states and the federal government they are bloated and have redundancy throughout. How silly to cut the waste.
    Here are some of the other departments that will pick up the slack.

    Building and Fire Safety, Dept. of
    Emergency Management, Division of
    Emergency Response Commission
    Public Safety, Dept. of

    Arizona Agencies

    Those functions are not going away, they will be transferred.


    Scare Crow, thanks for the uninformed, arrogant, 30-second size-up on the Office of the State Fire Marshal (OSFM). Sorry I didn't comment on this story in a timely manner. I was busy doing work for the citizens of Phoenix, as I am paid to do.

    The OSFM in Arizona traditionally had been a small factor in the fire service in Arizona. That changed a few years ago when Bob Barger was appointed as the State Fire Marshal. Bob, a retired Deputy with Phoenix, brought a significant level of enthusiasm and professionalism to the office. Along with his staff of Phil Mele and Paul Wobosel, the OSFM had made significant strides towards becoming a force and the coordinating office for the state’s fire service.

    Along with running the State Fire School, which gives training opportunities to smaller departments, the OSFM also was the accreditation office for Firefighter I and II, Pump Operator, and others. Bob, Phil, and Paul have been working their tails off over the last few years and had been making a huge impact on standardization of the fire service in Arizona. They had been operating at the whim of the state legislator, and had truly been doing more with less for the last few years.

    This cut of funding is going to be a huge setback for the fire service in Arizona. Maybe not so much for Phoenix, Tucson, Flagstaff, and some other large to medium cities, but for the small towns throughout the state. Hopefully, when the local economy turns around, the OSFM will be restored and all the hard working and dedicated professionals who turned the office around can come back. This is a big hit, regardless of what the Scardy Crow seems to have assumed (and you know what happens when you do that).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Item 1. b. The position of fire training director will be redirected to work on transitioning to other State Fire Service organizations.

    Not all is lost
    Wow, you found one thing. You have studied this!

    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Been there several times. My last wife was from there, down around Sierra Vista.
    Well.. that explains a lot of things....
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ScareCrow57
    Item 1. b. The position of fire training director will be redirected to work on transitioning to other State Fire Service organizations.

    "Not all is lost

    Wow, you found one thing. You have studied this!"


    Just because the Fire Training Director position has been transferred to another section does NOT mean that the fire programs will be continued. The rest of the OSFM is likely gone. The Training Director may be assigned to inspecting modular home construction next week.

    I try not to argue with people on the internet, but Scardy Crow, you are not informed on this, and you shouldn't be making statements that you can't back up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bomberodevil View Post
    I try not to argue with people on the internet, but Scardy Crow, you are not informed on this, and you shouldn't be making statements that you can't back up.
    Oh, he's a pro at that.

    You want a laugh? Ask him to define what "primary search" is.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I notice no one form Arizona is commenting, and those that are haven't investigated that State of Arizona. Like so many states and the federal government they are bloated and have redundancy throughout. How silly to cut the waste.
    Here are some of the other departments that will pick up the slack.

    Building and Fire Safety, Dept. of
    Emergency Management, Division of
    Emergency Response Commission
    Public Safety, Dept. of

    Arizona Agencies

    Those functions are not going away, they will be transferred.
    Building and Fire Safety Dept. = Code violations, sprinkler systems

    Div. of Emergency Management = Plans for Floods, Evacuations, etc.

    Emergency Response Commission = Don't know what they do but it ain't putting out fires

    Dept. of Public Safety = Highway Patrol, Law Enforcement

    Scardy, which one of those agencies that you said are going pick up the slack is going to certify that firefighters meet standards, that TRT and Haz-Mat is taught to standards, that fire equipment is up to standards, that training is conducted. Wow...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bomberodevil View Post
    Scare Crow, thanks for the uninformed, arrogant, 30-second size-up on the Office of the State Fire Marshal (OSFM). Sorry I didn't comment on this story in a timely manner. I was busy doing work for the citizens of Phoenix, as I am paid to do.

    The OSFM in Arizona traditionally had been a small factor in the fire service in Arizona. That changed a few years ago when Bob Barger was appointed as the State Fire Marshal. Bob, a retired Deputy with Phoenix, brought a significant level of enthusiasm and professionalism to the office. Along with his staff of Phil Mele and Paul Wobosel, the OSFM had made significant strides towards becoming a force and the coordinating office for the state’s fire service.

    Along with running the State Fire School, which gives training opportunities to smaller departments, the OSFM also was the accreditation office for Firefighter I and II, Pump Operator, and others. Bob, Phil, and Paul have been working their tails off over the last few years and had been making a huge impact on standardization of the fire service in Arizona. They had been operating at the whim of the state legislator, and had truly been doing more with less for the last few years.

    This cut of funding is going to be a huge setback for the fire service in Arizona. Maybe not so much for Phoenix, Tucson, Flagstaff, and some other large to medium cities, but for the small towns throughout the state. Hopefully, when the local economy turns around, the OSFM will be restored and all the hard working and dedicated professionals who turned the office around can come back. This is a big hit, regardless of what the Scardy Crow seems to have assumed (and you know what happens when you do that).
    Thank you for the input. Up until know you are the only one who has any knowledge about the situation. The other posers (Yea I said poser not poster) knew nothing about this but were highly critical, happens every time they hear the words "Budget Cut". They think the worst.

    I see it NYS and I saw it in Arizona as well. 100s of state agencies, many providing similar or the same service. Look at the federal level, many duplicate agencies and many set up just to provide a high level job for someone. Look at all of the Czars, how much are they getting paid?

    The problem as I see it in most of these decisions is that the budgets are cut with no plan on how to continue operations. When legislators make these cuts they should also be talking about combining agencies and reducing overhead.

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