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  1. #1
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    Question How to tell North, East, South, West?

    This may seem like a silly question. I read a thread earlier about determing which side of a house is north, east, south, west.

    The thread wasn't really helpful in helping me understand how to tell which side is N, E, S, or W.

    How do you tell which was is N, E, S, or W when working a house fire? There was a fire in a training complex...and there where no street signs anywhere and one of the officers just said "we got smoke on the south side of the house."

    How do people determine that?

    What if your out in an area with no street signs?

    Any advice?

    Thanks.


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    Sense of direction....... If its that big of a problem for you, Get a compass.
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    Know which way the main roads and highways run. Then just use them as a guide.

    If it's daylight, look for the sun.

    Carry a map...

    compass..
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    There's a 200 alarm fire in the sky. It starts every morning in the East, and ends every evening in the West.

    If you look at it when its starting, you are looking to the East.
    If you look at it when its starting, then turn left, you are looking North.
    If you look at it when its starting, then turn right, you are looking South.
    And if you turn around when its starting, you are looking West.

    This is brought to you courtesy of the nice Purple Dinosaur who is breaking it down for you Barney Style!!
    A Fire Chief has ONLY 1 JOB and that's to take care of his fireman. EVERYTHING else falls under this.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeportFireExplorer View Post
    This may seem like a silly question. I read a thread earlier about determing which side of a house is north, east, south, west.

    The thread wasn't really helpful in helping me understand how to tell which side is N, E, S, or W.

    How do you tell which was is N, E, S, or W when working a house fire? There was a fire in a training complex...and there where no street signs anywhere and one of the officers just said "we got smoke on the south side of the house."

    How do people determine that?

    What if your out in an area with no street signs?

    Any advice?

    Thanks.
    This is the reason that directions are not used when describing the sides of a building on fire.

    Going clockwise, the alpha side is the front of the building. left side is bravo, rear is charlie, right is delta.

    Using a, b, c and d to describe the sides can be confusing , as b, c and d sound a lot alike.. add adrenalin and fireground noise, it becomes unintelligible gibberish.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  6. #6
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    This is the reason that directions are not used when describing the sides of a building on fire.

    Going clockwise, the alpha side is the front of the building. left side is bravo, rear is charlie, right is delta.

    Using a, b, c and d to describe the sides can be confusing , as b, c and d sound a lot alike.. add adrenalin and fireground noise, it becomes unintelligible gibberish.
    This is the official correct answer.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Sun rise in east....Sun set in west, Kemosabie.
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  9. #9
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    Thanks, Captain Gonzo!

    But...that would work great on a small house.

    How about a big commercial fire in a building that's "uneven"...you know...multiple ( >4) sides.

    I think it would be easier to just use the Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta system....they seem to use both N,E,S,W and A,B,C,D here.

    Eh.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeportFireExplorer View Post
    Thanks, Captain Gonzo!

    But...that would work great on a small house.

    How about a big commercial fire in a building that's "uneven"...you know...multiple ( >4) sides.
    That's why there are more than 4 letters in the alphabet.

    The Wildland world uses divisions on fires that are larger than small towns, so in this case, size really doesn't matter.

    But only in this case......

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeportFireExplorer View Post
    Thanks, Captain Gonzo!

    But...that would work great on a small house.

    How about a big commercial fire in a building that's "uneven"...you know...multiple ( >4) sides.

    I think it would be easier to just use the Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta system....they seem to use both N,E,S,W and A,B,C,D here.

    Eh.
    Like the Pentagon?

    Alpha, Bravo, Charlie Delta, Echo...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTFIRE80 View Post
    There's a 200 alarm fire in the sky. It starts every morning in the East, and ends every evening in the West.

    HOLY CRAP! Does this mean I should be wearing my SCBA 24/7?
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    HOLY CRAP! Does this mean I should be wearing my SCBA 24/7?
    Well according to NFPA/all the geniuses of the world that know everything....Do I really need to Finish?
    Courage, Being Scared to Death and Saddling Up anyways.

  14. #14
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JTFIRE80
    There's a 200 alarm fire in the sky. It starts every morning in the East, and ends every evening in the West.
    Ha! that's nothing compared to the 10,000 alarm great tumbleweed conflagration!*




    *another blast from the past!!!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Know which way the main roads and highways run. Then just use them as a guide.

    If it's daylight, look for the sun.

    Carry a map...

    compass..
    Ever been on a north south highway where the sun is right in your eyes?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    This is the reason that directions are not used when describing the sides of a building on fire.

    Going clockwise, the alpha side is the front of the building. left side is bravo, rear is charlie, right is delta.

    Using a, b, c and d to describe the sides can be confusing , as b, c and d sound a lot alike.. add adrenalin and fireground noise, it becomes unintelligible gibberish.
    Exactly, we once had an A/C who was convinced if you were too stupid to not know East from West anytime of the day you should be fired. Well no one got fired, but he's long gone and we still use the number system. Sides 1,2,3,4 floors are first, second, third, fourth, etc. and A,b,c,d are used to delineate exposures, 2, 2-A, 2-B, etc.(side 2, exposure buildings first, second and third to the left)
    BTW, the number vs. alphabetic side labeling is always good for a white shirt argument. Thankfully the numbers win whenever someone pulls out an SCBA mask and asks for a demonstration of the A,B,C, D. Of course using Alpha, Brave, etc... is the answer to that, but why change a good thing? Don't f*ing say NIMS either!

    Another question. Does anyone actually use more letters of numbers for the sides o fthe building than 1,2,3,4 or A,B,C,D? Givent he four sides everyone immeidatley knows where everything is in relation to where they are, but adding just more more side confuses things a little, and I can't see how this would work in practical application at a large building with more than 5 sides.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 01-15-2010 at 08:21 AM.

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    We always used Front, left, back, rear. Front is always street side of structure. If more sides, use left front, left side, left rear. No discenible reason I know of other than its the way we've always done things.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    ... Sides 1,2,3,4 floors are first, second, third, fourth, etc. and A,b,c,d are used to delineate exposures, 2, 2-A, 2-B, etc.(side 2, exposure buildings first, second and third to the left)...
    Just curious, but if I am on the 3rd floor, rear of the building, do I report as being 3-3? or would it be "third floor 3"?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  19. #19
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    posted by RFDACM02
    Exactly, we once had an A/C who was convinced if you were too stupid to not know East from West anytime of the day you should be fired. Well no one got fired, but he's long gone and we still use the number system
    It was easy for your personnel... can you see Penobscot Bay? That's east!

    On foggy days and at night, the smell of the ocean, especially at at low tide was a good indicator of direction.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 01-15-2010 at 10:18 AM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTFIRE80 View Post
    There's a 200 alarm fire in the sky. It starts every morning in the East, and ends every evening in the West.

    If you look at it when its starting, you are looking to the East.
    If you look at it when its starting, then turn left, you are looking North.
    If you look at it when its starting, then turn right, you are looking South.
    And if you turn around when its starting, you are looking West.

    This is brought to you courtesy of the nice Purple Dinosaur who is breaking it down for you Barney Style!!
    Oh, good one, I needed a good chuckle this morning, Thanks

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