Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Norris,IL
    Posts
    1

    Default PFDs with FF PPE

    We been told in the past in several classes ff should not wear there PFDs over there FF PPE. We have always follow that rule but some issues have come up do to the cold weather. I have looking for some real info. or standards from the NFPA, USCG or anyone else. Can anyone help me out.
    Thanks,
    SEMPER Fi


  2. #2
    Forum Member yjbrody's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    700

    Default

    I don't recall any standards, but I remember being told the same thing in classes. The logic that I got from that was once that PPE gets saturated with water, that PFD isn't going to do much to keep you afloat anyways.

    Plz post if you find the standards though.

  3. #3
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    This is a non-issue. You should never be wearing firefighting PPE within trip-and-fall distance of shore or on a boat anyway. Not only should you not put a PFD over your gear, you shouldn't be anywhere near a situation where you would even want to try it. You either need a PFD or PPE. Not both.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  4. #4
    Forum Member Ambrose33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfd1556 View Post
    We been told in the past in several classes ff should not wear there PFDs over there FF PPE. We have always follow that rule but some issues have come up do to the cold weather. I have looking for some real info. or standards from the NFPA, USCG or anyone else. Can anyone help me out.
    Thanks,
    SEMPER Fi

    Your fire PPE is not made to be submerged into water. Its big and heavy. Ever come out of a house fire or an incident where you gear is soaked and it weighs 5x's more then when you began? Thats why water rescue gear is water resistent/water proof and light. I would contact a company that does classes on water rescue and take an awareness class and have them give you an idea for an SOG.

    NFPA 1670 http://dart.arc.nasa.gov/Water/files...0Standards.pdf

    Here's a slide show presentation another department made http://eastforkfire.org/Training/InS...WaterClass.pdf
    Stay safe!

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Port Allen, LA
    Posts
    148

    Default Bunker gear & water

    Let me start by saying that in most occasions bunker gear should never be worn around the water. Of course there are exceptions to every rule.... Home or business on fire that have in-ground pools, ship or barge fire at the port, other structure or vehicle fire on the pier or dock, etc.

    Go back to your firefighting basics. Water weighs just over 8 pounds per gallon. Fill a 5 gallon bucket with water and hold it at arms length as long as you can. If you are like me you get tired of this drill pretty quickly. Now get in the swimmong pool and hold the same bucket at arms length. Water doesn't weigh anything in water. The weight of water only has meaning when trying to get out of the water.

    The more clothing you have on the better it traps air for flotation and the warmer you stay. If you stay calm during an accidental water entry you have an excellent chance of survival. If you panic you will likely drown no matter what you wear.

    Mike Dunn, water rescuer since 1967, water rescue instructor since 1980
    President
    ERT, Inc
    www.ertrescue.com

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    811

    Cool Interesting.....

    Very interesting thread..... Didn't realize that PPEs were ok in the water..... We've been told by all of our Instructors that no PPEs within 30' of the water.

    I'm gonna keep an eye on this thread, it's intriguing.....
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Port Allen, LA
    Posts
    148

    Default PFDs with FF PPE

    FF PPE should never intentionally be worn in the water other than for water survival training. If you are responding to a water or ice rescue then you absolutely need to be wearing PPE appropriate for the call.

    If you are responding to a fire where water is nearby then you absolutely need water survival training so you don't panic and drown during an accidental water entry while fighting the fire in FF PPE.

    I'll be entering water deep enough to drown in next Monday for a training class. I'll be wearing FF PPE with steel toed boots minus the SCBA. Then after I demonstrate bobbing around like a cork I'll get out, doff the bunker gear, switch to chest waders and do it all over again.

    Mike

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    75

    Default

    I don't wear water rescue gear to your fire so don't wear your fire gear to my water rescue call!

    Survival is possible with Turnouts, but simply put, DON"T RISK IT!

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Pa USA
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Fitting subject, we just recently had a motor vehicle accident into an in ground pool, during the winter, pool cover on. Vehicle was balancing on the front passenger bumper and the rear driver bumper.
    Almost needed to pop the driver side door. Allot of our personnel was really on the fence about what they should dress out in.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Wheaton IL
    Posts
    1,765

    Default

    NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, wear structural firefighting gear where you think you may end up in the water.
    You see plenty of pics with firefighters floating in water, big smile on their face bobbing in the pool. This is extreamly misleading, you will fall in and attempt to get out, you are not going to bob aroound for however long waiting to get rescued. When you actively try to get out you gear will get swamped and you will have a lot of trouble getting out.
    One of the most difficult situations that we see guys in gear is on the ice. Everyone operating in the hot zone at an ice rescue needs to be in the appropriate ppe, NOT turnouts with a PFD. If you fall through you probably will not be able to get out, and will need to be rescued by your fellow firefighters. That sets up a situation where the victim dies while you are rescuing a firefighter that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
    Try this put everyone in a Mustang ice commander, they will stay warm, be protected and can rescue themselves if they get into the water.

    An experiment, toss your inflatable into a pool, and in a PFD try to get in...Hard isn't it, now put your gear on, a PFD and try... Can't get in can you?

    We have been given bad information for years by good intentioned instructors. Structural FF gear has no place at a water rescue operation...PERIOD. Wear the appropriate PPE for the situation, and our firefighter costume is not it.

  11. #11
    Forum Member FiremanLyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfd1556 View Post
    We been told in the past in several classes ff should not wear there PFDs over there FF PPE. We have always follow that rule but some issues have come up do to the cold weather. I have looking for some real info. or standards from the NFPA, USCG or anyone else. Can anyone help me out.
    Thanks,
    SEMPER Fi
    If your department is serious about providing water rescue capabilities, they need to look into wet suits and dry suits. In cold weather, water rescue concerns also include heated rehab and crew rotations in addition to the proper equipment.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. FULL PPE for everybody...no exceptions!
    By SamsonFCDES in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 12-11-2005, 10:22 PM
  2. PPE for EMS Personnel
    By dgilli01 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-27-2004, 12:53 PM
  3. PPE Under XTREAM Conditions
    By SamsonFCDES in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-03-2004, 12:03 PM
  4. Water Extrication PPE??
    By rmoore in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-10-2003, 05:40 PM
  5. PPE of the World
    By SamsonFCDES in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 11-28-2003, 04:56 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts