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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Five posts to my one. This is almost fun.
    scfire - it is only because I am too lazy to cut and past a bunch of times. I think about doing one post a lot, but I am too fat and lazy to hit the button that many times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    He is proposing a virtual nationalization of the banking industry. He is proposing a massive restructuring of the health care system that will undoubtedly result in the nationalization of health insurance coverage.

    How in the world is that moving to the right?
    I disagree on claims of nationalizing the banking industry. If anything, that industry has shown that left to its own devices it is quite capable of continually raping the public treasuries. This isn't the first time in our nation's history the taxpayer has had to bail out malfeasance caused by Wall Street. I would ask you if you believe the status quo is acceptable in light of recent events.

    As I stated. He campaigned on health care reform. The US spends a significant more of its GDP on health care without achieving a better delivery of health care. Conservatives have yet to put forth anything significant despite claiming they favor reform as well.

    Obama spent his first year in office trying to reassure the Washington/New York establishments that he was not going to upset their apple carts too much, that they shouldn’t panic, that he would be more about continuity than change.

    And he succeeded. The big banks were pulled back from the brink; the auto industry survived; the stock markets rebounded; a new Great Depression was averted; the national security elites praised Obama’s more nuanced rhetoric as he continued many of George W. Bush’s war policies..

    Yet the first major political judgment on Obama’s “responsible” behavior came from Massachusetts when a little-known right-winger was chosen by the voters to fill Ted Kennedy’s Senate seat.

    It turned out that what Obama had accomplished politically in his first year was to associate himself and the Democratic Party with the widely despised national establishments.
    Last edited by scfire86; 01-25-2010 at 04:58 PM.
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  3. #153
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    I have this feeling that we are looking at two different Pres. Obama's.

    The plan he is advancing right now is essentially a hostile takeover of the banking industry. I don't know what is wrong with the status quo. Those banks were playing within the rules. The rules were ill-advised-regardless of who wrote them. By playing that game in an aggressive manner, they got themselves in trouble as a result of greed. The answer is not to take over the entire industry. The answer is reasonable regulation.

    As far as health care, you keep saying that the GOP has no plan. In fact, the GOP has called for actions such as tort reform and interstate cmpetition. These are enigmas to the Dems and they are DOA.

    BTW, I would argue that the Great Depression was not avoided, it was only postponed. With the massive debt he has accumulated for generations to come, the question is not if, it's when the depression will occur.
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  4. #154
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    Thumbs down Yeah, Well.................

    Does ANYONE in elected office care about Energy Prices???......... All I'm hearing is Healthcare to the point that I'm sick of it. No One can give me a straight Answer as to what is wrong with Health Care today. I have a Really Good Health Plan. Some people do, some don't. But what's the real root of the Problem? Far more important to me is the price of Energy, and the blatant disregard of that problem by the President. IF Congress and the President would devote half of the time wasted on healthcare to fixing our energy problems, some of our Economic difficulties would disappear as well.......
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    The plan he is advancing right now is essentially a hostile takeover of the banking industry. I don't know what is wrong with the status quo. Those banks were playing within the rules. The rules were ill-advised-regardless of who wrote them. By playing that game in an aggressive manner, they got themselves in trouble as a result of greed. The answer is not to take over the entire industry. The answer is reasonable regulation.
    Then what would be wrong with returning to what worked. Renacting the Glass-Steagall Act.
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  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Then what would be wrong with returning to what worked. Renacting the Glass-Steagall Act.
    Maybe nothing. But I think the issues in 1933 were alot different than they are today. Allowing banks some latitude to diversify their investments certainly allows them to spread their risk around and make the institution a little more sound. The balancing act is not letting the banks get too crazy with their investments. Not too many banks are involved in the insurance industry anymore, but there are alot of risky ventures that sensible regulation would prevent them from playing around with.

    You understand, of course, that what is being proposed is far, far more than this, right?
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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Maybe nothing. But I think the issues in 1933 were alot different than they are today. Allowing banks some latitude to diversify their investments certainly allows them to spread their risk around and make the institution a little more sound. The balancing act is not letting the banks get too crazy with their investments. Not too many banks are involved in the insurance industry anymore, but there are alot of risky ventures that sensible regulation would prevent them from playing around with.

    You understand, of course, that what is being proposed is far, far more than this, right?
    In what way? Do you believe the banking industry would lobby for or against anything that infringes upon the status quo? They have shown nothing but contempt for any type of regulation that infringes upon their business models.

    I doubt the American electorate would have much sympathy for bankers if Obama enacted his idea of reform. It's difficult to feel have sympathy for a group that demands hundreds of billions of dollars in bail out monies and then cries like a school girl when someone tells them they can't just hand it out as million dollar plus bonuses under the guise of needing to keep top notch talent in order to keep the enterprise working. I would argue it was that talent that caused the disaster in the first place.

    The best one was the CEO of Merrill Lynch spending seven digits on his office remodel because he just couldn't work in the same environment as his predecessor. Pardon me, but when my taxes are paying the freight, you get a steel desk, a chair, and a trash can. Maybe a couple of other chairs so the guests have somewhere to sit. I'm sure I can find something of that nature in a government surplus warehouse.
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Compared to the way he campaigned on matters relating to banking and health care reform, absolutley!
    Are you talking about the primaries or the general election? He swung left and right as the situation dictated.

    Big difference.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    So you come off appearing to want to punish all bankers for the action of a few.

    Remember, greater than 90% of all banks are quite solvent. It is these giant monster banks that grew over the past 10-20 years that screwed the pooch.

    If you want to bail them out, you don't just give them money - you stick a microscope up their arse and examine every nook and cranny of their business. But don't punish the other banks that abide by the rules and don't fork over an average $500,000 bonus to the employees when they took our money.

    Deep inside, I honestly think that most of these banks were much more solvent than we were lead to believe. They saw an opportunity to take money with few strings attached and took it. We got f@cked, and they got billions. And now the morons in Congress (our current President among them seeing as he was a Senator when the bill passed) are shocked - shocked I tell you! - that they got hoodwinked. Who would have thunk it?
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Does ANYONE in elected office care about Energy Prices???......... All I'm hearing is Healthcare to the point that I'm sick of it. No One can give me a straight Answer as to what is wrong with Health Care today. I have a Really Good Health Plan. Some people do, some don't. But what's the real root of the Problem? Far more important to me is the price of Energy, and the blatant disregard of that problem by the President. IF Congress and the President would devote half of the time wasted on healthcare to fixing our energy problems, some of our Economic difficulties would disappear as well.......
    ROFLMAO!!!!! All I'm hearing is Healthcare to the point that I'm sick of it. No pun intended I'm thinking.

    I will tell you this, there is nothing wrong with the health care in the U.S. Anyone needing treatment will get it. How you pay for it is the real issue. Just before the economy tanked in 2008 energy prices shot up. People stopped going to dinner, they stopped traveling, they stayed home. No one was spending any money as it was all going into the gas tank. Now here we are a year later and history is about to repeat itself.

    I agree with one thing, put these people to work and let them buy their own insurance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    So you come off appearing to want to punish all bankers for the action of a few.

    Remember, greater than 90% of all banks are quite solvent. It is these giant monster banks that grew over the past 10-20 years that screwed the pooch.

    If you want to bail them out, you don't just give them money - you stick a microscope up their arse and examine every nook and cranny of their business. But don't punish the other banks that abide by the rules and don't fork over an average $500,000 bonus to the employees when they took our money.

    Deep inside, I honestly think that most of these banks were much more solvent than we were lead to believe. They saw an opportunity to take money with few strings attached and took it. We got f@cked, and they got billions. And now the morons in Congress (our current President among them seeing as he was a Senator when the bill passed) are shocked - shocked I tell you! - that they got hoodwinked. Who would have thunk it?
    Obama isn't too smart on this one either. Even his own advisers told him not to go after the banks. His little stunt took me from earning just over 5% for the year to losing 2.5% on my 401k. That is the short term effect. Long term is the banks need to lend money and move money to make the economy move. Tighten up the money the banks have and the ways they can make money and the entire system will come to a screeching halt. There might be a need for better regulations or enforcing the ones we have. Now is not the time to threaten the banks. Banks would be the single biggest force that can get the economy rolling again (or not)

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    sc, you are doing exactly what Pres. Obama is doing. You are demonizing industries by making them peopple.

    It is the banking industry, not bankers. Of course there are people at the top who run the corporations. Even if I submit to your assertion that these people at the top are abusing the system, the entire US economy depends on the banking system, not the "bankers" to operate and survive. He has done this with the insurance industry, the energy industry and others.

    It is an attempt to manipulate the public opinion. People have a hard time getting mad at a building or a corporation. So you put faces-evil faces- on the the entity and try to get people mad at those faces. I find it to be intellectually dishonest to argue with someone from that standpoint.

    If you want to discuss the banking industry, of course they are going to buck against any regulation. But, in the end, they know that their industry cannot be unregulated. They will accept reasonable regulation. But the big danger in Pres. Obama's plan is his stopping two inches short of wanting to nationalize the banking industry. The only problem is, people are not going to buy it this time. They saw the dishonesty in the health care debate and how they were almost fooled.. It is not going to happen again.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Five posts to my one. This is almost fun.
    That is because there is nothing rational you can say against the arguments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    sc, you are doing exactly what Pres. Obama is doing. You are demonizing industries by making them peopple.

    It is the banking industry, not bankers. Of course there are people at the top who run the corporations. Even if I submit to your assertion that these people at the top are abusing the system, the entire US economy depends on the banking system, not the "bankers" to operate and survive. He has done this with the insurance industry, the energy industry and others.

    It is an attempt to manipulate the public opinion. People have a hard time getting mad at a building or a corporation. So you put faces-evil faces- on the the entity and try to get people mad at those faces. I find it to be intellectually dishonest to argue with someone from that standpoint.

    If you want to discuss the banking industry, of course they are going to buck against any regulation. But, in the end, they know that their industry cannot be unregulated. They will accept reasonable regulation. But the big danger in Pres. Obama's plan is his stopping two inches short of wanting to nationalize the banking industry. The only problem is, people are not going to buy it this time. They saw the dishonesty in the health care debate and how they were almost fooled.. It is not going to happen again.
    George, I think we beat this one to death. I'm pretty much willing to let this thread die.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    sc, you are doing exactly what Pres. Obama is doing. You are demonizing industries by making them peopple.

    It is the banking industry, not bankers. Of course there are people at the top who run the corporations. Even if I submit to your assertion that these people at the top are abusing the system, the entire US economy depends on the banking system, not the "bankers" to operate and survive. He has done this with the insurance industry, the energy industry and others.

    It is an attempt to manipulate the public opinion. People have a hard time getting mad at a building or a corporation. So you put faces-evil faces- on the the entity and try to get people mad at those faces. I find it to be intellectually dishonest to argue with someone from that standpoint.

    If you want to discuss the banking industry, of course they are going to buck against any regulation. But, in the end, they know that their industry cannot be unregulated. They will accept reasonable regulation. But the big danger in Pres. Obama's plan is his stopping two inches short of wanting to nationalize the banking industry. The only problem is, people are not going to buy it this time. They saw the dishonesty in the health care debate and how they were almost fooled.. It is not going to happen again.
    Just remember, these industries are already regulated. There is the securities and exchange act of 1934, then in 2002 after the Enron and World com failures of the 1990s we were given Sarbanes-Oxley (SOX).

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    George, I think we beat this one to death. I'm pretty much willing to let this thread die.
    Only if you admit that I am right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Only if you admit that I am right.
    Thank you. I now have to clean the afternoon coffee off the screen.
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    I heard about this poll yesterday afternoon, and read it this morning at work.

    Hee hee. Imagine if a Republican won one of the 2 Congressional seats in Rhode Island......against a Kennedy. Mwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha.

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/pol...ome&position=0

    Ooooh, that would be so delicious.
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  19. #169
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    Thumbs up Hey Sharkie.......

    Click on your Patrick Kennedy link, then scroll to the bottom of it, there's a link to another Blogger who firmly asserts that "Camelot's Over"...... Good read there.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I heard about this poll yesterday afternoon, and read it this morning at work.

    Hee hee. Imagine if a Republican won one of the 2 Congressional seats in Rhode Island......against a Kennedy. Mwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha.

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/pol...ome&position=0

    Ooooh, that would be so delicious.
    How come these leftist also say the other side is "well funded" when they are losing. Did they lose site of the fact that the Democrats where well funded in 2008???

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Click on your Patrick Kennedy link, then scroll to the bottom of it, there's a link to another Blogger who firmly asserts that "Camelot's Over"...... Good read there.....
    Yes sir. Camelot is over. The last of the Kennedys and their coat holders have left Massachusetts representation. Maybe in 9 months the last Kennedy political office holder will go bye bye too.

    Lots of folks in these parts are glad to see the ridiculous Kennedy love affair and infatuation start to go away. Camelot is indeed over. The only Kennedy folks around are Joe Kennedy (who makes a coll half a million running a "non-profit" - Citizen's Energy), and Patrick "Patches" Kennedy. His car accidents, drug addictions, alcoholism, and mistakes are catching up with him. No longer is just having the name Kennedy going to mean anything.

    You ought to know - you had one of Bobbie's kids Kathleen Kennedy-Townsend down in Maryland screwing things up.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    You did notice that Carolyn Kennedy dropped out of the competition for the seat now held by Kirsten Gillibrand and formerly held by a carpetbagger. Seems the country is waking up to the il-effects of this off the wall liberalism. Now if only Californians will stop the flower power movement and stop smoking the Wacky stuff long enough to wake up the country will have a chance.

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