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    Default Haiti-No Good Deed Goes Unpunished

    Back to my old standby...SCREW FRANCE!

    By Aislinn Laing, and Tom Leonard in Port-au-Prince.
    Published: 8:15PM GMT 18 Jan 2010

    The French minister in charge of humanitarian relief called on the UN to "clarify" the American role amid claims the military build up was hampering aid efforts.

    Alain Joyandet admitted he had been involved in a scuffle with a US commander in the airport's control tower over the flight plan for a French evacuation flight.

    "This is about helping Haiti, not about occupying Haiti," Mr Joyandet said.

    Geneva-based charity Medecins Sans Frontieres backed his calls saying hundreds of lives were being put at risk as planes carrying vital medical supplies were being turned away by American air traffic controllers.

    But US commanders insisted their forces' focus was on humanitarian work and last night agreed to prioritise aid arrivals to the airport over military flights, after the intervention of the UN.

    The diplomatic row came amid heightened frustrations that hundreds of tons of aid was still not getting through. Charities reported violence was also worsening as desperate Haitians took matters into their own hands.

    The death toll is now estimated at up to 200,000 lives. Around three million Haitians – a third of the country's population – have been affected by Tuesday's earthquake and two million require food assistance.

    While food and water was gradually arriving at the makeshift camps which have sprung up around the city, riots have broken out in other areas where supplies have still not materialised.

    Haiti was occupied by the US between 1915 and 1935, and historical sensitivities together with friction with other countries over the relief effort has made the Americans cautious about their role in the operation.

    American military commanders have repeatedly stressed that they are not entering the country as an occupying force.

    US soldiers in Port-au-Prince said they had been told to be discreet about how they carry their M4 assault rifles.

    A paratrooper sergeant said they were authorised to use "deadly force" if they see anyone's life in danger but only as a "last resort".

    Capt John Kirby, a spokesman for the joint task force at the airport, said the US recognised it was only one of a number of countries contributing to a UN-led mission.

    He also emphasised the US troops, which he said would rise to 10,000 by Wednesday would principally be assisting in humanitarian relief and the evacuation of people needing medical attention.

    The main responsibility for security rests with the UN, which is to add a further 3,000 troops to its force of 9,000.

    However, it was agreed on Sunday night that the Americans would take over security at the four main food and water distribution points being set up in the city, Capt Kirby said.

    "Security here is in a fluid situation," he said. "If the Haitian government asked us to provide security downtown, we would do that." He played down the threat of violence, saying: "What we're seeing is that there are isolated incidents of violence and some pockets where it's been more restive, but overall it's calm."
    Let me see...as usual, the US shows up first, with the most and will stay longer than anyone else. We are doing things that the Haitian government is unable to do themselves. But we're the bad guys?

    SCREW FRANCE! (and anyone else who doesn't like it).
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    He didn't get the memo... France doesn't own it anymore.

    I'm sure it was just an oversight.
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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    I believe Israeli forces were actually there first. But your point is still correct.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    I believe Israeli forces were actually there first. But your point is still correct.
    I didn't hear that. To me, that is quite interesting. Do you know the circumstances?

    I happen to believe that there is an awful lot about this kind of stuff that we can learn from the Israelis.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    They do tend to have their shiznit together when it comes to security and recovery.

    And France can go shove it.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quite a childish and immature statement by the OP. Below is a list of countries involved in Haiti rescue efforts. Trying to state that " Nyaa, Nyaa, we did more than you did" is akin to an insecure little boy trying to say hes better than all others while measuring his pee pee. Who the hell cares who did what? The goal is to rescue and aid as many human beings as possible. Put the order in for hero cookies later.

    Best Answer - Chosen by Asker ( From Yahoo answers)
    To date, the United Nations, the European Commission, Canada, Spain, The Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Italy, Sweden and China have donated or pledged nearly US$38 million total, with the United States pledging an additional US$100 million. Also, Venezuela, Mexico, France, Britain, Iceland, Taiwan, Israel, Cuba, and neighbouring CARICOM member countries are assisting with the supply of essential medical and food items, and professional and transportation services


    In contrast Socialist Cuba, with the experience of sending medical brigades to meet emergencies in Pakistan, Bolivia, China, Guatemala and Indonesia, sent a team of 403 people to Haiti, 344 of them health care workers. On the first day they treated 800 Haitians and performed 19 surgical interventions. (TeleSur, Jan. 14) Cuba already had hundreds of medical doctors providing care in the Haitian countryside and provincial towns.

    Chile, Nicaragua, Spain, Guatemala, France, Mexico and Russia all rushed aid, mostly food and water, to Haiti on Jan. 13, while the U.S. was still discussing how the Marines would land. China sent a 60-member search-and-rescue team with sniffer dogs.

    Venezuela immediately sent 19 doctors and 10 firefighters who specialize in search and rescue along with 20 other experts and material aid. The Bolivarian government of Venezuela has always recognized South America’s debt to Haiti, which in the 1820s gave the aid to Simón Bolívar he needed to help free some of the South American countries from rule by Spain.

    * 4 days ago

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    Maybe you should move to socialist Cuba then.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Maybe you should move to socialist Cuba then.
    Been there several times thank you

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    I wasn't suggesting a visit.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Maybe the french wanted to get there first so they could surrender to the earthquake.
    Last edited by PATF1engineer; 01-19-2010 at 02:11 PM.
    Thomas Anthony, PE
    Structures Specialist PA-TF1 & PA-ST1
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    The artist formerly known as Captain 10-2

    No, I am not a water rescue technician, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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    "Monsieur earthquacq, we surrender!"
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Quite a childish and immature statement by the OP. Below is a list of countries involved in Haiti rescue efforts. Trying to state that " Nyaa, Nyaa, we did more than you did" is akin to an insecure little boy trying to say hes better than all others while measuring his pee pee. Who the hell cares who did what? The goal is to rescue and aid as many human beings as possible. Put the order in for hero cookies later.

    Best Answer - Chosen by Asker ( From Yahoo answers)
    To date, the United Nations, the European Commission, Canada, Spain, The Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Italy, Sweden and China have donated or pledged nearly US$38 million total, with the United States pledging an additional US$100 million. Also, Venezuela, Mexico, France, Britain, Iceland, Taiwan, Israel, Cuba, and neighbouring CARICOM member countries are assisting with the supply of essential medical and food items, and professional and transportation services


    In contrast Socialist Cuba, with the experience of sending medical brigades to meet emergencies in Pakistan, Bolivia, China, Guatemala and Indonesia, sent a team of 403 people to Haiti, 344 of them health care workers. On the first day they treated 800 Haitians and performed 19 surgical interventions. (TeleSur, Jan. 14) Cuba already had hundreds of medical doctors providing care in the Haitian countryside and provincial towns.

    Chile, Nicaragua, Spain, Guatemala, France, Mexico and Russia all rushed aid, mostly food and water, to Haiti on Jan. 13, while the U.S. was still discussing how the Marines would land. China sent a 60-member search-and-rescue team with sniffer dogs.

    Venezuela immediately sent 19 doctors and 10 firefighters who specialize in search and rescue along with 20 other experts and material aid. The Bolivarian government of Venezuela has always recognized South America’s debt to Haiti, which in the 1820s gave the aid to Simón Bolívar he needed to help free some of the South American countries from rule by Spain.

    * 4 days ago
    So what exactly are you saying? Your " in conrast " statement leads one to assume you are more impressed with the offerings of the non-capitalist countries.

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    Because countries who "occupy" another country ALWAYS open up their borders for refugees.

    Screw France.

    Plan To Bring Haitians To Central Fla. Not Set In Stone
    Posted: 11:31 pm EST January 14, 2010
    Updated: 1:50 pm EST January 15, 2010

    Comment On This Story ››

    ORLANDO, Fla. -- The American Red Cross says a plan to bring 45,000 evacuees from Haiti to Florida, and 4,000 of those to Orange County, is not set in stone. The Red Cross clarified Friday who could be involved in a plan to move people out of Haiti.

    The Red Cross is preparing for two things: the repatriation of Americans living in Haiti and the possibility of a mass migration of Haitian nationals.

    The American Red Cross has seen massive migration into the U.S. from areas like Kosovo and Bosnia in the past, but no determination has been made yet in the case of Haiti. But the repatriation of Americans has already begun. Eyewitness News was told that it includes people like missionaries who may have already been working in Haiti before the quake.

    The U.S. citizens are being brought into South Florida through Miami and Homestead, where their identities can be verified. Thursday night, five flights arrived with 190 Americans on board.

    “I think that we will continue see U.S. citizens coming in over the weekend and through the beginning of next week. And that would be our first focus and first wave and, I think, as the conditions are assessed in Haiti and some decisions are made both with our federal government and the Haitian government about what’s best for their citizens,” Director of Emergency Services Becky Sebren said.

    Americans continued to arrive in South Florida Friday afternoon and, as the United States plans its strategy to help Haiti, the state closest to the island nation is taking center stage with a plan to bring tens of thousands of refugees to Florida and approximately 4,000 to Orlando.

    Orange County Mayor Rich Crotty says he has some concerns with the possible plan. If Haitians are brought to Central Florida, the county, city and possibly other area communities will have to scramble to figure out where to put the earthquake victims, and it will be a tough challenge.

    "It would occur to me that there is a legal process associated with that and it would probably have to come through the State Department in terms of citizenship and visas, work visas [and] that sort of thing," Mayor Crotty said.

    What that influx of people brings with it is a very large service demand, particularly in the area of social services in what is already a tough economy.

    "We're very stressed financially right now and this is going to add to that stress," Mayor Crotty said. "So this is a balance we're going to have to work on strengthening."

    Governor Charlie Crist told Eyewitness News Friday that, while he's talked to the Secretary of Homeland Security about bringing Haitians to Florida, nothing has been decided at this point.

    Governor Crist was at a jobs summit in Orlando Friday morning. Crist wouldn't confirm whether Haitian refugees would be coming to Central Florida; he did say that Florida has pledged to do everything it can to help those in need after the earthquake.

    "We want to be in touch with the State Department, making sure we're doing what is necessary for these people to get the help they need and deserve," Crist said.

    Governor Crist said, because of mild hurricane seasons for the past several years, there are a lot of relief supplies available in Florida. He said some of those supplies will be used to help Haitians in need.

    Additionally, the State of Florida has opened a new emergency information hotline about the Haiti quake. It's meant to give Floridians a link to informational resources on the international response and recovery efforts.

    The hotline number is 1-800-342-3557. You can call for information between the hours of 10:00am until 6:00pm.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Back to my old standby...SCREW FRANCE!



    Let me see...as usual, the US shows up first, with the most and will stay longer than anyone else. We are doing things that the Haitian government is unable to do themselves. But we're the bad guys?

    SCREW FRANCE! (and anyone else who doesn't like it).

    Love my country to death but the US money going into that country to keep troops there irritates me when our economy is going down the crap shoot. I hope they found a cost friendly way to help and arent just blowing more cash then needed. I understand that the people of haiti couldn't help this tragedy but I surely hope our efforts there don't hurt our economy here!

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    It is wonderful that we have the capability and desire to do what we're doing for them. However I can't help but be a little annoyed that we can land half the air force and navy and the entire american red cross into Hati in 5 hours.... yet it took 5 days to find the lower 9th ward of New Orleans.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    It is wonderful that we have the capability and desire to do what we're doing for them. However I can't help but be a little annoyed that we can land half the air force and navy and the entire american red cross into Hati in 5 hours.... yet it took 5 days to find the lower 9th ward of New Orleans.
    That's because the US military has been running the Haiti operation from the start. The New Orleans operation went from clusterf to getting something done the very second DHS was kicked to the curb.

    If another disaster on the Katrina scale were to happen again in the US, you would see a Katrina repeat unless the military became the lead organization from the start.

    The military regularly deploys tens of thousands of people to whatever godforsaken hole is the hotspot of the day. They deal with every logistical issue known to man and find a solution simply because they've got no other choice. To them, Katrina really wasn't more than a small scale exercise. DHS will never come close to their capabilities.

    Oh, I also agree with the sentiment of George's post. If our presence is so offensive, let's just take our toys and go home.

    Let me know how that works out for you.

    Edited to add - that last line is a shot to all those complaining about US efforts, not NM
    Last edited by EFD840; 01-19-2010 at 12:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxrocks View Post
    So what exactly are you saying? Your " in conrast " statement leads one to assume you are more impressed with the offerings of the non-capitalist countries.
    OK I'll speak slowly. The words posted were from Yahoo! Last I heard they were an American based company. Try harder!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireEMT712 View Post
    Love my country to death but the US money going into that country to keep troops there irritates me when our economy is going down the crap shoot. I hope they found a cost friendly way to help and arent just blowing more cash then needed. I understand that the people of haiti couldn't help this tragedy but I surely hope our efforts there don't hurt our economy here!
    Oh but sending our tax money down there is just the start. Shelters all around here are gearing up to take in refugees which equals spending tax money we here in S.Fla don't have. Once they are here the welfare system will pick them up because there are no jobs for them. Then they'll get food stamps and government support for housing, the support that American born people that bust their ***** can't even get. I know it sounds heartless but like I said in another post too bad, send them to France. These people(Haitians) will take your generosity and then spit in your face. They work our system and give nothing back.
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

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    This is a disaster that killed (by Haiti's estimates) 200,000 people. IT destroyed virtually every building in most of the country. The country is a short distance from the US mainland. We have good diplomatic relations with the country and (I thought) we had a military presence on the island.

    The US is on a humanitarian mission that goes beyond the scope of any ever seen. There is nothing to compare this with-not even Katrina. When a disaster like this occurs, we help. While I am a staunch believer in an aggressive national security policy, this seems to me to be a prudent use of the US military might.

    Please explain to me what the US is supposed to do if we don't take charge of this effort? Rely on the UN? Please.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Please explain to me what the US is supposed to do if we don't take charge of this effort? Rely on the UN? Please.
    If we throw our weight around and take charge other countries and most of our own media will complain that we are bullies. If we don't take charge other countries and most of our media will complain that we didn't throw our weight around to take over. IF we are going to provide any further assistance then we need to be in charge because rest assured down the line when everyone else leaves, the burden to finish cleaning up the mess will be ours, FOR YEARS TO COME.
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

    Firefighter/Paramedic

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Please explain to me what the US is supposed to do if we don't take charge of this effort? Rely on the UN? Please.
    Well the UN could write them a letter. And then pass a motion agreeing to send another letter if they don't do something sometime.

    George, I agree with you completely. I'm happy our boys are there and we're doing what no other country can do (the least of which being france...). I don't think we shouldn't be there doing what we're doing. What I don't like is that we can't do it for ourselves too.

    Maybe it would have been easier if Katrina hit Washington DC instead of New Orleans. It would cripple most of the bureaucracy that hinders operations forcing us to just do what needs to be done when it needs to be done.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Well the UN could write them a letter. And then pass a motion agreeing to send another letter if they don't do something sometime.

    George, I agree with you completely. I'm happy our boys are there and we're doing what no other country can do (the least of which being france...). I don't think we shouldn't be there doing what we're doing. What I don't like is that we can't do it for ourselves too.

    Maybe it would have been easier if Katrina hit Washington DC instead of New Orleans. It would cripple most of the bureaucracy that hinders operations forcing us to just do what needs to be done when it needs to be done.
    At the risk of derailing this thread...

    The bureaucracy that crippled NO following Katrina was called inaction and unpreparedness by local governments and state agencies. The initial NO response was not military (except for specialized emergency response with helicopters). The federal government did not cripple things until about a week later.

    Haiti has NO local government left. We were able to send in military units where we couldn't in NO. They are far more in number and are better organized than our civilan federal response (no insult, just a fact).

    And you're right. We will do what needs to be done for a long, long time. Long after the other countries have packed their tents and their quiche and have gone home.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Here's what I do know:

    1) Canada had a cracker jack box full of soldiers in Haiti BEFORE the quake, on UN tasking - from the folks I know who have been there, most would rather in be South Africa

    2) the Canadian Government has pledged to meet dollar for dollar (up to a max 50million) any public donations - so far its at 40 mill. I'm wondering from which budget Mr Harper is going to "appropriate" that from? The CF budget mostly likely, especially since its a military operation (ya DFAIT says they've "Got It", but I know who they'er going to call on when it starts to get real messy.)

    As for the rest.... Well if it came from Fox News it MUST be true?
    ===

    Canada sending money, troops to assist in Haiti

    By Juliet O'Neill, Canwest News ServiceJ anuary 19, 2010 10:50 AM

    OTTAWA — The federal government announced Tuesday an additional $80 million for international emergency relief efforts in Haiti as Canadian troops began flying into the southern coastal town of Jacmel, bypassing the clogged airport in the devastated capital, Port-au-Prince.

    International Co-operation Minister Bev Oda announced the additional funding for emergency food, water, sanitation, medical treatment, shelter and protection of vulnerable people. That brings the federal commitment to $135 million, including up to $50 million in matching funds for public donations to registered relief organizations. Prime Minister Stephen Harper said public donations exceed $30 million so far.

    Canadian Forces personnel set to work in Jacmel, delivering food, water and medical assistance from HMCS HALIFAX offshore and through the DART — disaster assistance response team — which travelled from Port-au-Prince. The first soldiers also began arriving at the Jacmel airport. {HMCS ATHABASKAN is also in the area of a small village providing security and relief sources.}

    "The first soldiers from Quebec, part of the 3rd Battalion, Royal 22nd Regiment, are already on the ground and hundreds more are en route as we speak," army chief Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie said in an interview. By midnight Tuesday, he said, 1,000 Canadian Forces personnel and other Canadian officials will be in Haiti to help in the aftermath of the earthquake a week ago that has left tens of thousands of Haitians without homes or basic necessities.

    "The environment is devastating," Leslie said. "All those poor people, with literally tens of thousands of dead, clamouring for help and support, the security situation is problematic, the distribution of humanitarian supplies is getting better with our presence, but where we're not — we being the international community and those who can help — it's very problematic."

    Leslie said Canada is sending a shipload of heavy engineering equipment and heavy vehicles to Haiti on Thursday from Quebec and Canada is working with the U.S. government on getting the deepwater port of Port-au-Prince reopened so the equipment can be brought to shore.

    "The big issue is the port," he said. He said the equipment will be brought ashore somehow. The Americans have amphibious assault craft that can carry heavy equipment but Canadians don't, he said.

    Oda said the lion's share of the new funds, $60 million, is in response to a United Nations appeal for money for basic supplies and services. Another $11.5 million will go to non-government organizations such as CARE, Medecins du Monde, Save the Children, Oxfam Quebec, the Canadian Red Cross Society, the Centre for International Studies and Co-operation and World Vision. Another $8.5 million is in response to an appeal from the International Federation of the Red Cross to pay for emergency help to an estimated 300,000 people.

    "We are committed to playing a significant role in responding to the impact of this disaster, not only in these early days of rescue and relief operations, but also in addressing longer-term recovery and reconstruction needs," Oda said.

    The relief funds are separate from what the military costs will total. Defence Minister Peter MacKay had no information about the military price tag when asked at a news conference Tuesday.

    Leslie said the focus now is getting the job done.

    "We go into crisis mode and we are absolutely focused like a laser beam on saving lives and getting as many of our troops there as we possibly can," he said. "We'll worry about the money in a couple of weeks."

    The number of missing Canadians had gone down to 699 by Tuesday morning.

    © Copyright (c) Canwest News Service
    Last edited by MalahatTwo7; 01-19-2010 at 04:57 PM. Reason: Apparently my sources needed to be updated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    The federal government did not cripple things until about a week later.
    Hahaha. Well worded. It was the local bureaucracy that hindered it in the beginning.....
    Last edited by nmfire; 01-19-2010 at 11:53 PM.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Just for the record, I did not say anything negative about Canada.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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