1. #401
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    [QUOTE=LaFireEducator;1233120]
    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post

    Where did I say not use the truck?

    All I said was run it a little slower on non-fire or low-risk fire calls. It's really not that complicated.

    IF you are going to quote me, then do so by using what I said. and not what someone else said.


    Post No. 358, "Using this logic, why not just send a car and driver to investigate and then if they have something they can call out the troops. Sure would save on the wear and tear of the high dollar fire apparatus".
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

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    LA-

    So if your volunteer members are not trained to professional standards NFPA firefighter 1 because of tme constraints. Or, not continually trianed to professional standards as defined in NFPA. How do you consider them professionals then? (Note this is not a slam against volunteers.) they are not traned to industry standards. Just like the guy down the street that does not hold an electrician's card is not a professional.

    Here in virginia a "firefighter" no matter what vol or career is trained to the same firefighter 1 standard.

    guess what included in the water supply section is tanker shuttles, relay pumping. In another section stand pipes are included. This is not optional or an elective, it is part of the standard that the virginia department of fire programs adopted.

    Hate to break it to LA in the short time I have been a pump operator at my current department. I have drafted out of a drop tank on a house trailer fire on the interstate. been in a relay pump operation at a multi alarm fire (Sometimes you have to get a hydrant on another main on big fires). yes we are a urban fire department. In fact with in the next few months when we are training the new driver on pumping. We will do tanker shuttles and most definetly relay pumping.

    i have seen a picture of three engines side by side drafting out of a canal that runs throught the middle of the city on a fire. captoldtimer might have even been at that fire.

    Fact is this constant we are volunteer we only have a few hours to give argument is invalid. You are selling you member short. You preach everyone goes home, how ever you dont practice it. We can afford medical evals, we dont have time to train on that, etc.

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    Seems like I once read of a department with a significant false alarm problem (as opposed to automatic alarms). They quit running a full alarm assignment in part because the punks pulling the alarms mainly wanted to see all the apparatus come roaring in. I don't recall that the story said anything about problems encountering actual fires.

    It's the non-voice alarms that are the problem. If somebody dials 9-1-1 and says their house is on fire, there aren't many departments that won't run hot.

    Tanker shuttles? I can have almost 8000 gallons on scene on a first alarm for a structure fire if manpower is available - and that's not counting booster water in the engines. Travel/response time for the most distant tanker will be 10-12 minutes, dependent on location of the incident. After that, it depends on distance to a water source, as well as flow and availability at said source.

    Everybody around here runs tankers in the 2000 gallon range, and drop tanks are usually easily available (we have one on both our engine and our new tanker), so it's not hard for a tanker to be able to dump and run almost immediately on arrival.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

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    So how many hours is that program? 60? 80? 100? 120? 200?

    I have no problem with that as long as it's optional after the member has been trained in-house or is allowed to run on calls while in the program. Seems reasonable.

    The fact is I doubt that a 6-month program meeting nights and some weekends totals to the same hours the SC is talking about, which is a full 16-24 week academy running 8 hours every day.

    I have no issue with volunteers taking FFI, FFII or other specialzed classes if they wish and thier work and family schedules allow for that. We encourage it. We teach the classes or pay for the classes to be taken outside. We reward them for it. We simply don't require it unless they are looking for promotion because our initial training covers the basics of our operations. The rest of the skills we require they will learn over time through department training and in-house special drills/training.

    By the way, a 16-week academy totals out to a minimum of 640 hours. A 24-week academy totals out to at least 960 hours.
    The MFA's Call/Volunteer program is 312 hours.
    The MFA's career 12 week recruit program is 480 hours.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    The MFA's Call/Volunteer program is 312 hours.
    The MFA's career 12 week recruit program is 480 hours.
    Just out of curiousity, what additional material do they cover in the career program v. the call/volunteer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Just out of curiousity, what additional material do they cover in the career program v. the call/volunteer?
    Probably a class on not posting things on the internet that make your department seem incompetent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Probably a class on not posting things on the internet that make your department seem incompetent.
    right in the mouth
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Probably a class on not posting things on the internet that make your department seem incompetent.
    Oh snap....
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The fact is I doubt that a 6-month program meeting nights and some weekends totals to the same hours the SC is talking about, which is a full 16-24 week academy running 8 hours every day.
    And it's one of the many reasons why volunteers shouldn't be considered as competent as professionals.

    I enjoy how you ask the questions after you've already supplied the answers.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    And it's one of the many reasons why volunteers shouldn't be considered as competent as professionals.
    You say the sweetest things...
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    And it's one of the many reasons why volunteers shouldn't be considered as competent as professionals.
    Now see there LAFE, you made our liberal friend hate all the volunteers too!

    I wonder if I can be considered semi-competent when I'm at the VFD since I'm a "professional" too?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Now see there LAFE, you made our liberal friend hate all the volunteers too!

    I wonder if I can be considered semi-competent when I'm at the VFD since I'm a "professional" too?
    I doubt our friend would allow you to carry that label over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Just out of curiousity, what additional material do they cover in the career program v. the call/volunteer?
    recruits go an extra 21 days.. they get more burn days, water rescue and confined space training an a more extensive hazmat training.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanlyman View Post
    probably a class on not posting things on the internet that make your department seem incompetent.
    pow, right in tha kissa!!

    new orleans a blaze in a small, abandoned warehouse in new orleans killed eight homeless people who were burning wood in a barrel to stay warm, the fire department said today.

    A man who lives nearby said the homeless often seek refuge from the cold in the neighborhood's many boarded-up buildings. Temperatures were unusually low just below freezing when the fire was reported around 2 a.m.

    The building was ablaze when the first fire truck arrived, said new orleans fire department spokesman greg davis. Firefighters could not tell the ages or genders of the bodies pulled from the rubble. The fire also killed two dogs.

    Two survivors told firefighters that at least some of the people inside were unconscious when the building went up in flames. Davis said they might have been knocked out by carbon monoxide.

    "when you burn something in a closed area, you're going to build up carbon monoxide," he said.

    The average low for new orleans in late december is around 44 degrees, but freezing temperatures aren't unheard of, said national weather service meteorologist tim destri.

    The survivors were a man who escaped during the fire and a woman who had left the building before it was engulfed, red cross worker tom butler said. He said both were put up at a hotel.

    The man told butler that he heard someone screaming and trying to get out. The survivor said he tried to run back into the building, but there was too much smoke. Butler said the man didn't want to be identified.

    The wood and corrugated metal building burned to the foundation. It was among several ramshackle metal, brick and wooden buildings along railroad tracks where graffiti-scrawled freight cars stood.

    Many of the houses nearby appeared abandoned, but at least a few were occupied.

    Ricky gordon, who lives in the working-class neighborhood in the upper 9th ward, said he does volunteer work with the homeless, and they often take refuge in the buildings when it gets cold.

    "i took one guy in last night myself," he said.
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    Damn you're GOOD! I just saw this and was gonna post it but there it is. In La of ALL places. Whoudda thunk?
    Sc,we have differing views on Volunteers. I've watched the OC training academy,I'd put our recruits against yours anyday. You WOULDN'T like the results. I WOULDN't judge ALL volunteers by YOUR version. There are many Volunteer outfits that can match OR EXCEED Career. Area dependant of course. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 12-28-2010 at 12:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I said, it could be a factor in our operation, though it is rarely an issue. For some rural departments, it is a more constant and persistant problem.

    The fact is any water flow demonstration is a scheduled event over a planned course, and will always yield better results than a real world event.

    I would say that in the real world, without utilizing mutual aid, the typical tanker flow for my combo (fulltime gig) department ranges from 700-1300 gpm depending on the area of the district and time of day.

    Again, even those flows are generally more than adequate for a typical residental structure fire.

    As far as my volunteer gig, real-world typical flows are very manpower dependant and probably range from 500-900 gpm with our typical limited mutual aid response. With so many dry hydrants dry due to the current drought, those flows may be optimistic in some parts of the district.


    I'm throwing the BS flag on this one. I would LOVE to see YOU do an ISO shuttle and MAINTAIN over 500 GPM. Not saying it can't be DONE but having done it a few times,I know what it takes. And to do almost three times that? Puuleeze! 1300 gal per minute for two hrs is a schitload of water and coordination. Just NOT seeing it. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Damn you're GOOD! I just saw this and was gonna post it but there it is. In La of ALL places. Whoudda thunk?
    Sc,we have differing views on Volunteers. I've watched the OC training academy,I'd put our recruits against yours anyday. You WOULDN'T like the results. I WOULDN't judge ALL volunteers by YOUR version. There are many Volunteer outfits that can match OR EXCEED Career. Area dependant of course. T.C.
    so i take it NOFD didn't conduct a search?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Damn you're GOOD! I just saw this and was gonna post it but there it is. In La of ALL places. Whoudda thunk?
    Sc,we have differing views on Volunteers. I've watched the OC training academy,I'd put our recruits against yours anyday. You WOULDN'T like the results. I WOULDN't judge ALL volunteers by YOUR version. There are many Volunteer outfits that can match OR EXCEED Career. Area dependant of course. T.C.
    I have always found TV to be a great way of determining the difficulty or ease of the group being shown.

    Why just a couple of weeks ago I was watching a special on Navy SEALS and thinking, "doesn't look too tough." I still run on the beach and swim in the ocean a couple times a week. I've always been a good shot. Whaddya think?
    Last edited by scfire86; 12-28-2010 at 03:56 PM.
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  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
    so i take it NOFD didn't conduct a search?
    What in either the story or TC's post led you to that conclusion?
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    well the story says they got the victims out of the rubble, not they found them inside or whatever. I was just asking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Damn you're GOOD! I just saw this and was gonna post it but there it is. In La of ALL places. Whoudda thunk?
    Sc,we have differing views on Volunteers. I've watched the OC training academy,I'd put our recruits against yours anyday. You WOULDN'T like the results. I WOULDN't judge ALL volunteers by YOUR version. There are many Volunteer outfits that can match OR EXCEED Career. Area dependant of course. T.C.
    Do you base your opinion on FDNY operations by watching rescue me also?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
    well the story says they got the victims out of the rubble, not they found them inside or whatever. I was just asking
    there's rubble inside buildings.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    Do you base your opinion on FDNY operations by watching rescue me also?
    FDNY? Hell, I thought all FD's operated like TOmmy Gavin and his crew . That's not how the real world firefighter does his job? Crap, I need to tell the rest of the guys, haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 11LK349F View Post
    Bottom line, if you're not willing to give it all up, get the heck out of our fire service.
    You mean your brother's fire service, right?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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