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  1. #341
    MembersZone Subscriber tajm611's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blulakr View Post
    My take, FWIW.....

    While I disagree with him in many areas, LAFire is not 100% wrong. Risk vs. gain is something we should all keep in mind at all times. I'm just glad I'm not one of the many likely to be on the the losing end of his risk-gain equation.

    tajm611... You mentioned your age, 23. You will, in time, lose some of that cavalier attitude. I will assume that you're not married nor have children. Time changes us. I used to think like you, then I got married, had kids and now grandkids.
    Or maybe you won't, I dunno...
    Married with one on the way. It's not a false sense of bravado, I'm a fairly quiet fellow. I don't see it as a cavalier attitude, I just have a sense of public service. You wouldnt want a lax ems service nor would you appreciate a lax LEO so why is it acceptable to have a lax fire service?
    If one day I decide to settle down and coast into retirement, I'll eat my words, but until then, I'll be a firefighter.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey


  2. #342
    MembersZone Subscriber tajm611's Avatar
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    Food for thought:



    What is it that we don’t do anymore? Listen up and you will hear all kinds of things, and reasons to support inaction. Is this where society is going? No, society highly values service companies and altruistic efforts. Is the current generation of firefighters to blame? No, not yet at least. Those that impact service delivery and those who preach fear believe that diminishing our tactical range of effort is commendable due to the fact there was nothing we could do. Inaction is not dangerous to your body; but what about the long range impact? The more “nothing” we do, the more inaction we applaud; the more they were dead already fires events we have, the more the fire service’s mission and principle(s) will digress.

    Politicos can do a numbers job on us - but only we can devalue our service - and there are many already busy with that effort. The fire service is different from any other emergency service… so far. When we are not proactive in doing what we can do for our citizens, then the danger of extinction is real. Let’s not put ourselves on the endangered list. Instead, work to improve our service delivery model - do everything you can to save lives, explore all options and stay tactically safe.
    -Ray McCormack


    Some one needs to tell this "young gun" what'll happen when age becomes an excuse for laziness. There's way too many aggressive and progressive and smart vets on here for a few of you to diminish my respect for them. Their wisdom is what they use to make a point, not their age.

    Funny, if I acted like some of you, I'd be a typical you kid being lazy like all of the other kids, but to be proactive in my efforts and I have a cavalier attitude and I'm too dumb to know any better.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

  3. #343
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    Our best effort was to save them and go home. You seem to only believe in half the equation is adequate. We didn't accept mediocrity. Sorry to hear you're willing to perform at that level.

    Just to give you a perspective ....

    In the 30 years I have been in the service I have responded to a grand total of 2 structure fire fatalities, excludung mutual aid, with the 8 departments I have served with.

    One death occurred in a fire that were not even called in until the structure was fully involved and on the ground when we arrived. The third was pulled out by a search team.

    The fact is, we haven't exactly been killing them.

    Rescues have been almost as rare. Fact is, occupied structures have not been and are currently not an issue where I have been and currently work and volunteer. Maybe they were where you were.

    As far as the rest of your previous post, we are a primarily rural combination department with a finte amount of hazards based on a limited housing and building stock. We are not an urban area with a vast array of buildings and hazards. Our initial training, and most of our weekly and daily company and department-level training, relfects what we respond to.

    You call the imferior training. We call it targeted training.

    Your anti-volunteer bias makes it impossible to discuss this any further.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-27-2010 at 09:16 AM.

  4. #344
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    Most Fires double in intensity every 30 seconds. You're looking at anywhere between twice to sixteen times the intensity by running cold to a smoke investigation. By your logic, why run at all? If you do need to rush, why even go? If you won't go, then why even exist?

    I'll repeat.

    I have responded to hundreds of smoke investigations.

    A handful have turned out to be anything more than food on the stove, a backed up chimney, electrical wires burning, a burned out ballast or some other non-emergent call.

    Not one of those handful resulted in serious incident that wasn't put out with a extinguisher, a water can or a few gallons from a booster line.

    Maybe your experience is different, though I doubt it.

    Fact is thevast majority of smoke investigations do not require a hot response as they turn out to be non-emergent. I would bet that most of the ones that turn out to be a significant issue get multiple calls or reports of fire as well, both of which can trigger an upgrade in response.

    If we are going to reduce the number of firefighter deaths we need to develop an understanding of where risk is valid and where it is not, and accept the fact that practices like responding to all calls hot despite history that tells us that is an unecceassary risk.

  5. #345
    MembersZone Subscriber tajm611's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    One death occurred in a fire that were not even called in until the structure was fully involved and on the ground when we arrived. The third was pulled out by a search team.
    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I would bet that most of the ones that turn out to be a significant issue get multiple calls or reports of fire as well, both of which can trigger an upgrade in response.
    Once is enough to not rely on more than one call coming in.

    I'd hate to leave my family's life up to your gambling.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    Once is enough to not rely on more than one call coming in.

    I'd hate to leave my family's life up to your gambling.
    Running hot is gambling as well.

  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    What is it that we don’t do anymore? Listen up and you will hear all kinds of things, and reasons to support inaction. Is this where society is going? No, society highly values service companies and altruistic efforts. Is the current generation of firefighters to blame? No, not yet at least. Those that impact service delivery and those who preach fear believe that diminishing our tactical range of effort is commendable due to the fact there was nothing we could do. Inaction is not dangerous to your body; but what about the long range impact? The more “nothing” we do, the more inaction we applaud; the more they were dead already fires events we have, the more the fire service’s mission and principle(s) will digress.

    Politicos can do a numbers job on us - but only we can devalue our service - and there are many already busy with that effort. The fire service is different from any other emergency service… so far. When we are not proactive in doing what we can do for our citizens, then the danger of extinction is real. Let’s not put ourselves on the endangered list. Instead, work to improve our service delivery model - do everything you can to save lives, explore all options and stay tactically safe.
    -Ray McCormack
    It annoys me to no end everytime I see a kid cite Ray McCormack.

    Just to start, keep in mind that you're talking about a guy that works for FDNY. He's got a wealth of experience, and I won't argue that one bit. However, how many boots does FDNY put on the ground for a first alarm fire? From what I remember, once the first-arriving company signals a working incident, the total is 4 engine companies, two trucks, a squad, a rescue, a FAST company, and two battalion chiefs. That's upwards of 50 firefighters for a first alarm. How many other departments can put that kind of manpower on a first alarm?

    FDNY must operate in a fashion different than all but a few fire departments in this country. In NY people are stacked on top of each other. That's not the case in 99% of this country. Urban departments work on their own set of rules that are developed for their cities. You can't take FDNY's way of doing things and apply it to your jurisdiction or vice versa.

    Some one needs to tell this "young gun" what'll happen when age becomes an excuse for laziness. There's way too many aggressive and progressive and smart vets on here for a few of you to diminish my respect for them. Their wisdom is what they use to make a point, not their age.

    Funny, if I acted like some of you, I'd be a typical you kid being lazy like all of the other kids, but to be proactive in my efforts and I have a cavalier attitude and I'm too dumb to know any better.
    I don't know when everyone decided that acting in a defensive manner was "lazy" or unmanly. All defensive means is that you are applying water from the exterior, NOT that you're standing around watching. You can still be aggressive and make a defensive attack. You can also transition from defensive to offensive (seen it done, many times).

    At the same time, one has to use risk/benefit. Part of that is determining whether or not to search or attempt rescue. However, the basic premise of doing so is determining if there are varifiable and viable victims and using that information with the size-up info.

    If it's unlikely there's victims and the fire is going hard enough that it's unlikely they're viable, it's not a hard decision to make to go defensive until you can get the fire knocked down enough to make a search. At the same time, if you get verifiable information that there's victims and conditions are still survivable, it's not hard to make the decision to go into rescue mode until those conditions change.

    This really isn't a hard concept. I've buried one too many guys I called a friend due to fires where there were no victims. They were "doing their duty" to save a shell that ended up bulldozed.

    Next time you decide you want to go into an environment that's to the point the chance of survivability without PPE is zero and there's no indication there are any victims inside, but we search because "it's not vacant until we say it's vacant", take the time to pick out what brick your life is worth. Which brick is special enough for you to give your life for so that it can be sent to your wife and child?

    Or, take the time and make a good decision based on risk/benefit assessment, make an aggressive attack (be it offensive or defensive, exterior or interior), save who is savable, then go home.

  8. #348
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    LA -

    I am sick to death of you using the rural firefighting/lack of water as an excuse. If your department is half as good as you say you should have no problem putting enough water on scene to fight a well involved fire. I know there are areas that it is true but quit lumping every fire department into you train of thought.

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    It annoys me to no end everytime I see a kid cite Ray McCormack.

    Just to start, keep in mind that you're talking about a guy that works for FDNY. He's got a wealth of experience, and I won't argue that one bit. However, how many boots does FDNY put on the ground for a first alarm fire? From what I remember, once the first-arriving company signals a working incident, the total is 4 engine companies, two trucks, a squad, a rescue, a FAST company, and two battalion chiefs. That's upwards of 50 firefighters for a first alarm. How many other departments can put that kind of manpower on a first alarm?

    FDNY must operate in a fashion different than all but a few fire departments in this country. In NY people are stacked on top of each other. That's not the case in 99% of this country. Urban departments work on their own set of rules that are developed for their cities. You can't take FDNY's way of doing things and apply it to your jurisdiction or vice versa.



    I don't know when everyone decided that acting in a defensive manner was "lazy" or unmanly. All defensive means is that you are applying water from the exterior, NOT that you're standing around watching. You can still be aggressive and make a defensive attack. You can also transition from defensive to offensive (seen it done, many times).

    At the same time, one has to use risk/benefit. Part of that is determining whether or not to search or attempt rescue. However, the basic premise of doing so is determining if there are varifiable and viable victims and using that information with the size-up info.

    If it's unlikely there's victims and the fire is going hard enough that it's unlikely they're viable, it's not a hard decision to make to go defensive until you can get the fire knocked down enough to make a search. At the same time, if you get verifiable information that there's victims and conditions are still survivable, it's not hard to make the decision to go into rescue mode until those conditions change.

    This really isn't a hard concept. I've buried one too many guys I called a friend due to fires where there were no victims. They were "doing their duty" to save a shell that ended up bulldozed.

    Next time you decide you want to go into an environment that's to the point the chance of survivability without PPE is zero and there's no indication there are any victims inside, but we search because "it's not vacant until we say it's vacant", take the time to pick out what brick your life is worth. Which brick is special enough for you to give your life for so that it can be sent to your wife and child?

    Or, take the time and make a good decision based on risk/benefit assessment, make an aggressive attack (be it offensive or defensive, exterior or interior), save who is savable, then go home.
    Annoys you to know end...... It's just the opposite for me, I commend him.

    Lt. Mccormack's speach wasn't aimed just for the FDNY, it was for the future of the entire fire service. His words were universal and irrefutable. A lot of us feel the same way as him and ache for the future of the fire svc and it's younger generation.

    Tajm, good for you. I commend younger guys that can see through the wolves of soo called "progressivism" in the fire svc today.

    Catch, we're just not going to agree. I remember a previous thread where this was brought up, so I know it's been hashed ad nauseum and understand where you stand with the speech. I'll agree to disagree.

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    LA -

    I am sick to death of you using the rural firefighting/lack of water as an excuse. If your department is half as good as you say you should have no problem putting enough water on scene to fight a well involved fire. I know there are areas that it is true but quit lumping every fire department into you train of thought.
    My combo department (full-time job) is twice as good as I say they are.

    We almost always have enough manpower for residental operations. It's rare that water is an issue as we move water very well. There are some issues at the fringes of our district due to no hydrants and a lack of accessable drafting locations.

    The bottom line however is notification time and response time. If you look at rural operations, the bottom line is that if there is any delay in reporting the fire, and/or the fire happens to be at the outer edges of the district, the response time simply makes rescue an unlikley possibility. If the occupants have not escaped on thier own before our arrival, there is basically no chance that they are viable upon our arrival, especially given that the bulk of our rural housing stock are single-wides, double-wides and 70-year old wooden shotgun homes.

    That's not an excuse. That's the reality.

    My volunteer department is a different issue. While we do operate 2 6,000 gallon tankers and 3 of our 5 attack engines have 1500g tanks, manpower, especially daytime, makes it difficult at times to get the trucks on the road. In addition, drafting sites are few and far between, and hydrants are only located in the village with limted flows. Initial water supply is generally good, if we get enough drivers, but maintaining that supply can be a challenege due to some pretty extended travel times to fill points.

    While we have installed dry hydrants at just about every significant water source, dry weather creates further issues. As an example, due to the drought, currently 4 of our 7 water sources where we have installed dry hydrants are currently ....... dry.

    Manpower is also an issue due primarily to a very small, and by and large, older population within the district. While we do call mutual aid very early amd often, with the excetion of one city engine, travel distances for that aid is significant.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-27-2010 at 12:13 PM.

  11. #351
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    [QUOTE=LaFireEducator;1232984]
    Quote Originally Posted by pvfd27 View Post
    Why not reduce the risk by responding cold to calls with a history that does not require emergency actions such as alarms. MVAs with unknown injuries, smoke investigations, trash fires and the like?
    To my point, responding "hot" as you say, doesn't imply responding irresponsibly, which it appears you do.

    I'll use your analagy of responding based on history; Can't count the number of chimney fires that turned out to have breached the liner; Responded to a report of a car fire, the home-owner failed to mention the car was parked in their attached garage.

    I'll go out on a limb as say that nearly all MVA's are called in by JQP (John Q Public). Feel free to trust their assessment.

  12. #352
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    [QUOTE=pvfd27;1233086]
    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    To my point, responding "hot" as you say, doesn't imply responding irresponsibly, which it appears you do.

    I'll use your analagy of responding based on history; Can't count the number of chimney fires that turned out to have breached the liner; Responded to a report of a car fire, the home-owner failed to mention the car was parked in their attached garage.

    I'll go out on a limb as say that nearly all MVA's are called in by JQP (John Q Public). Feel free to trust their assessment.
    Note I never said fires in terms of a cold response.

    I have run into the same things you described, and they need to be considered, but how often have they occured v. the risk of responding hot. Again, local data will guide this decision.

    Depending on the time of year, brush fires could be put into the cold response catagory, even in my area, where brush fires can be quite significant.

    Alarm trips with possibly some high-life value exceptions or buildings without sprinkler systems, commercial and even residental smoke investigations, MVAs with unknown injuries or "occupants that want to be checked out" (which in my areas means they are looking for a PCR to collect $$$$), wires down, transformer fires, etc, etc. are all calls that can be handled quite effectivly with a cold response or even first due-only hot response.

    Civilians react is strange ways when confronted by a fire truck running hot as confronted by a fire truck running cold. That's a fact. Often there is little an apparatus driver can do when confronted by this unusual behavior to avoid an accident no matter how well trained or experienced they are. Given that in many VFDs, the drivers are in fact less experienced than 20 years ago because of the reduction in runs, and the fact that they are younger, this makes for a less than desirable situation.

    The simple question is why take chances on calls where the chances of a serious incident are little to none?

    That being said, a lot depends on the roads in the district, as I have mentioned before. In both my current and previous district, the bulk of the calls were close to the stations or were straight shots on higher speed roads with few, or no traffic lights to slow the response if you were running cold. Obviously if you are in are area with multiple intersections with lights, such as a surburban district I once volunteered in, that is a consideration.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-27-2010 at 11:21 AM.

  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You call the imferior training. We call it targeted training.
    Same thing. You're putting lipstick on a pig.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Your anti-volunteer bias makes it impossible to discuss this any further.
    You made my arguments for me. Much appreciated.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  14. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    It annoys me to no end everytime I see a kid cite Ray McCormack.

    Just to start, keep in mind that you're talking about a guy that works for FDNY.
    I know very well who Lt. McCormack is and what he does, which had no bearing on the choice I made when posting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    ] He's got a wealth of experience, and I won't argue that one bit. However, how many boots does FDNY put on the ground for a first alarm fire? From what I remember, once the first-arriving company signals a working incident, the total is 4 engine companies, two trucks, a squad, a rescue, a FAST company, and two battalion chiefs. That's upwards of 50 firefighters for a first alarm. How many other departments can put that kind of manpower on a first alarm?
    Thats all correct but has nothing to do with the quote itself or why I posted it

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    FDNY must operate in a fashion different than all but a few fire departments in this country. In NY people are stacked on top of each other. That's not the case in 99% of this country. Urban departments work on their own set of rules that are developed for their cities. You can't take FDNY's way of doing things and apply it to your jurisdiction or vice versa.
    See above




    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    I don't know when everyone decided that acting in a defensive manner was "lazy" or unmanly. All defensive means is that you are applying water from the exterior, NOT that you're standing around watching. You can still be aggressive and make a defensive attack. You can also transition from defensive to offensive (seen it done, many times).

    At the same time, one has to use risk/benefit. Part of that is determining whether or not to search or attempt rescue. However, the basic premise of doing so is determining if there are varifiable and viable victims and using that information with the size-up info.

    If it's unlikely there's victims and the fire is going hard enough that it's unlikely they're viable, it's not a hard decision to make to go defensive until you can get the fire knocked down enough to make a search. At the same time, if you get verifiable information that there's victims and conditions are still survivable, it's not hard to make the decision to go into rescue mode until those conditions change.

    This really isn't a hard concept. I've buried one too many guys I called a friend due to fires where there were no victims. They were "doing their duty" to save a shell that ended up bulldozed.
    How you equate me searching a vacant structure for the fun of it or to some how save the structure itself looks bad on your comprehension skills. To assume I'm charging into every single fire regardless of conditions is quite foolish on your part. It would be correct in realizing that if conditions allow for entry, we search, regardless of condition (as in aesthetics not safety: collapse; fully involved, etc). I have no desire to fight a fire for the sole reason to save a building. If we can save it you can bet your *** we'll try but we do it for the chance some one is in there.



    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Next time you decide you want to go into an environment that's to the point the chance of survivability without PPE is zero and there's no indication there are any victims inside, but we search because "it's not vacant until we say it's vacant", take the time to pick out what brick your life is worth. Which brick is special enough for you to give your life for so that it can be sent to your wife and child?
    Again, what indications do you expect a squatter to leave? A sign? A car parked out front? His wool hat on a door knob? Next shift I'll post photos of a house NEXT DOOR to our fire house. Windows boarded up, no vehicle, no a/c unit clearly visible. Yet some one lives there, and has lived there, for years. We also have houses that show seemingly obvious signs of vacancy. But they are empty, have been empty for over a year, and are waiting to be sold, and no there is no for sale sign out front.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Or, take the time and make a good decision based on risk/benefit assessment, make an aggressive attack (be it offensive or defensive, exterior or interior), save who is savable, then go home.
    By all means we are aggressive. By your definition of aggressiveness we are not. We train extensively. We throw ladders at every fire. We get down packed and ready to work. We know what our job is and do it very well. When we need to go defensive, we do and we don't question it. We are aggressive in training, preplanning, and instructing which allows us to do what we do. We run hot to alarms and when it is investigated and cleared we switch to cold. 9/10 times we still arrive and discuss things such as building layout, scenarios, etc. No building is worth my life, you are correct, but no life is above another, including mine.

    To degrade ourselves to hose holders and slab providers spits in the face of every single firefighter that came before us. If you (not necessarily you, 22) can sleep at night with that kind of thought process, good for you, but I can't.



    Again, the speech was used because of its discussion of the fire service in general, it had nothing to do with FDNY, my department, or LA's department. To think otherwise is sadly moronic.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Our best effort was to save them and go home. You seem to only believe in half the equation is adequate. We didn't accept mediocrity. Sorry to hear you're willing to perform at that level.

    Just to give you a perspective ....

    In the 30 years I have been in the service I have responded to a grand total of 2 structure fire fatalities, excludung mutual aid, with the 8 departments I have served with.

    One death occurred in a fire that were not even called in until the structure was fully involved and on the ground when we arrived. The third was pulled out by a search team.

    Your anti-volunteer bias makes it impossible to discuss this any further.

    Only 2 fatalities? You are very lucky, as well as fortunate!!

    In all my years in this business, I can't tell you how many. I lost count and too many to make note of.

    Probably someone in the Fire Marshal's Office, who keep records could give the figures.

    There is a difference in department's too, urban city vs. rural.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    So you train on the all the fire service skills and it doesn't matter if you will ever use them within your area?

    I wonder how much time FDNY, Boston or Baltimore spends on water shuttle operations including portable ponds and filling tankers in thier academy? I wonder how much time New Orleans spends on wildfire operations in thiers?

    Guess they have a lot of pigs with lipsticks as well.

    You made my arguments for me. Much appreciated.[/QUOTE]

    If you honestly belive that it's practical at any level to expect volunteers to go through the same level of training that a career member goes through (while being paid to do so) at a 16, 18 or 24 week 40-hour per week recruit academy, you are pretty much out of touch with reality.

    I have no idea what OC, SC or wherever you were does. I know that all the VFDs and combo departments I have worked or volunteered with make thier best effort to train thier members on the tasks they will be performing while responding to the buildings and hazards using thier tools following thier SOPs.
    Some do a better job than others.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-27-2010 at 12:00 PM.

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    [QUOTE=LaFireEducator;1232984]
    Quote Originally Posted by pvfd27 View Post

    I fully agree that the first step is a driver training program and responsible driving, including speed and intersection management, and the willingness of officers to enforce those practices in the cab, as well as a willingness to bring a driver to further discipline if required.

    We fully agree on that.

    However, driving hot increases the risk, no matter how well trained the appartus driver is a civilians will behave in unpredicatble ways.

    Why not reduce the risk by responding cold to calls with a history that does not require emergency actions such as alarms. MVAs with unknown injuries, smoke investigations, trash fires and the like?

    Using this logic, why not just send a car and driver to investigate and then if they have something they can call out the troops. Sure would save on the wear and tear of the high dollar fire apparatus.



    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    If you honestly belive that it's practical at any level to expect volunteers to go through the same level of training that a career member goes through (while being paid to do so) at a 16, 18 or 24 week 40-hour per week recruit academy, you are pretty much out of touch with reality.

    I have no idea what OC, SC or wherever you were does. I know that all the VFDs and combo departments I have worked or volunteered with make thier best effort to train thier members on the tasks they will be performing while responding to the buildings and hazards using thier tools following thier SOPs.
    Some do a better job than others.

    Hey charlie, In Virginia Career Members (paid) and Non Paid, (Volunteers) go thought the same training, hour for hour, skill for skill. No difference. It is the State Standard!
    Last edited by CaptOldTimer; 12-27-2010 at 12:02 PM.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  18. #358
    MembersZone Subscriber tajm611's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Running hot is gambling as well.
    If we do not rush, what do you suggest we do? Run cold every single time? If time is not of essence then why strategically place stations? Why even have lights and sirens? Why send more than one truck? Odds are its nothing. Why go? If we aren't going to go, who will? What would we become?

    True, no life is risked if we do not go. For ****s and giggles I asked my BC how many apparatus accidents he's had. He said 4, 3 of a civilian striking the apparatus while they were just driving back to quarters, lunch, training, etc. and 1 where he clipped a car sticking out at a fire scene. With 34 years on the job I find that astounding.

    And as luck would have it, we had our normal 330 wake up to visit the hospital for their weekly alarm. We ran hot. We investigated. The AC unit had caught fire and was put out within 2.5 minutes of arrival. Weird, they were normally false alarms.....
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

  19. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post


    Using this logic, why not just send a car and driver to investigate and then if they have something they can call out the troops. Sure would save on the wear and tear of the high dollar fire apparatus.
    and put us out of jobs
    Benton Fire District Four
    Ladder One
    First Due!


    Caddo Parish Fire District 1
    Career Firefighter/Paramedic


    When things get rough, just say:
    Acabo de perder cinco minutos de su vida.

  20. #360
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    [QUOTE=CaptOldTimer;1233113]
    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post


    Using this logic, why not just send a car and driver to investigate and then if they have something they can call out the troops. Sure would save on the wear and tear of the high dollar fire apparatus.
    Thank you cap. I whole heartily agree

    Don't your citizens expect you to use the truck they paid for?
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

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