1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    All this crap over one off-duty out of district situation.

    Amazing.

    Most of you guys really need to get a life.

    And how many of the career guys volunteer in their communities off-hours Don't your communities deserve the use of your skills off-duty in the same as you wanted me to us my skills off-duty in another community?

    Can't have it both ways.
    I cannot speak for anyone except myself, but when I jump in "off duty" and handle a fire related or EMS call that does qualify as "volunteering". The part about doing the job without being compensated give it away.
    There are several other areas I volunteer. I gave away 63 computers I receive via donation, to low income high school kids in 2009. I collect bicycles to be fix and given away a Christmas time. There are other think I do but I believe I made my point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And how many of the career guys volunteer in their communities off-hours? Don't your communities deserve the use of your skills off-duty in the same as you wanted me to us my skills off-duty in another community?

    Can't have it both ways.
    My volunteer fire department has a career firefighter who volunteers on his off time, an EMT-B and a Paramedic from the local career department as well who volunteers on their off time. Believe it or not, we also have 3 local police officers who are on our department as well that volunteer in their off time.

    Another county volunteer fire department has a member or the local career department on their department as well as 2 local police officers.

    Again, yet another county volunteer fire department has a local career firefighter/paramedic and a paramedic on their department that volunteer in their off time.
    2009 Warren County Firefighter of the Year

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    LA, how dare you "dress down" or have a heated discussion with a member of your department about how them making a decision on their day off that saved
    another human beings life be something they should think about harder next time. You are a freaking coward disgrace to the fire service. If you ever said anything like that to me after I saved someones life, I would probably tell you to Fu@k off and punch you square in the face. Coward!

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    Do they have a legal duty to act in Louisana? Are you required to do SOMETHING?

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    If I made the decision to act and god forbid, something happened to me, I know that my family and my wife would understand why I did what I did. Stuff happens, and sometimes firefighters die. Thats just the nature of the job, but not to act, is pathetic. If you choose not to act because something bad could happen to you, then you should never leave your house. You might have a wreck. I am sure that you are in tip top shape also since a main killer of firefighters is heart attacks. Stuff happens, always will. But to not act when a human being can be saved is the most cowardly thing you can do. Almost makes me sick. Risk alittle to save alittle, risk a lot to save a lot. Right? Last time I checked, a life that can be saved constitutes a lot. How you can tell someone that saved someone elses life that they might not have made a good decision and should of thought about their family more just dumbfounds me, if that's a word!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    and you have also called others cowboys, dinosaurs, etc..for doing what you wouldnt. What happened to personal choice?

    It's still thier choice.

    And then why is someone who has made the choice, or more than likely would make the choice not to intervene a coward?

    Can't have it both ways.
    Because they are?

    We're not talking about "someone" who chose not to help, but rather a "firefighter" who chose not to help. That's a big, big factor in the discussion and we've already seen many examples of non-firefighters who have made the choice to help. So, the personal choice of the off-duty firefighter to not attempt to help in some fashion in the absence of "official" resources, can most certainly be considered a cowardly.

    To be clear, we aren't talking about walking into a building with fire pouring out every orifice to see if somebody's inside, but rather taking at minimum, reasonable and appropriate actions for the situation at hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    All this crap over one off-duty out of district situation.

    Amazing.

    Most of you guys really need to get a life.

    And how many of the career guys volunteer in their communities off-hours? Don't your communities deserve the use of your skills off-duty in the same as you wanted me to us my skills off-duty in another community?

    Can't have it both ways.
    You are trying to mix issues in order to justify your position.

    A firefighter in City A lives in Town B and chooses not to volunteer at Town B's VFD. This is not the same thing as a firefighter in City A who happens upon an incident while in Town B (with no official resources on scene) and chooses not to provide assistance.


    Well, you can count me in the group that doesn't volunteer in the community (firefighting wise) off-duty, but then again we also don't have volunteer fire departments in my city.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    Never said dress down.

    I did say I would let them know the peril they put their income and their family in. I would tell them that while it was their choice, their actions had wide ranging consequences to more folks than themselves. I would simply put the idea in their head that maybe, just maybe, what they did wasn't very smart. Hopefully after awhile, they would realize that.

    As a trainer, that's my role, which is to make sure that they see both sides of their actions.
    First of all, how about you learn how to use the quote function. After all you have what, 37 college degrees and are a certified educator in the state of Louisiana.

    Secondly, you pathetic liar. A history revisionist when you are made to look like the despicable person you truly are. You absolutely said you would give them a dressing down.

    Here's your quote:

    Off-duty personnel have no business engaging in cowboy activities. If one of my firefighters did this they wiould get a dressing down from me. While others on my department would likely consider them a hero see do not see them that way.
    By the way, the only reason you finally owned up to saying it is that it was quoted so many times you couldn't edit it out or lie your way out of it.

    Whether or not to attempt a rescue while "Off Duty" is the personal choice of the individual.

    Thank you Fryed.

    You just said what I have been saying all along.
    No, I didn't say what you have been saying. You have said repeatedly through out these forums that you would dress them down, seek disciplinary action against them, and more. YOU wanted to control that decision and STOP them from making an individual choice on whether to act or not.

    I am saying it purely is the individual's choice and not my business to tell them what they should do or shouldn't do OFF DUTY, as long as it is LEGAL.

    and you have also called others cowboys, dinosaurs, etc..for doing what you wouldnt. What happened to personal choice?

    It's still thier choice.

    And then why is someone who has made the choice, or more than likely would make the choice not to intervene a coward?

    Can't have it both ways.
    Yes, I can have it both ways. Here is the difference. You said in the case in Milwaukee where the off duty firefighters intervened that YOU wouldn't have. How about the fact that CIVILIANS were intervening? UNTRAINED CIVILIANS were attempting to make the save before the off duty Milwaukee FF's showed up to help. IF YOU stand by and watch UNTRAINED CIVILIANS attempt a recuse and do not lift a finger to assist YOU ARE A COWARD. If the car is fully involved and the people in the car are obviously dead not attempting a rescue is the prudent choice.

    By the way La, I spoke to my girlfriend and laid out the scenario of us driving down the road and seeing a car accident in front of us with one of the cars on fire with people inside. I siad what would you think if I said **** it I am not on duty and started to drive by. She was incredulous and said you wouldn't drive by because she would want to see what she could do. My girlfriend is 5'3", not some amazon by any standards, but she would do what she could. So, I guess you could say she EXPECTS me to do what I can because that is what COMPASSIONATE HUMAN BEINGS do.

    Just shaking my head at you once again...Too bad you didn't get to edit the dressing down comment from your post before it was quoted. You could have denied ever having said it. Tough break.
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  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Off-duty personnel have no business engaging in cowboy activities. If one of my firefighters did this they wiould get a dressing down from me. While others on my department would likely consider them a hero see do not see them that way.

    You are right, I did use the phrase "dressing down".

    Probably a bad choice of words. Probably better phrase would be more like a very heated discussion.

    In other words, I would express my feelings about the risk he put his family at in no uncertain terms.

    If you want to call that back peddling, so be it.
    How about this in regards to you calling me into your office for a dressing down or a heated discussion. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. The second you started to chew on me about something I did outside of the fire department, on my OWN TIME, I would demand to see the Chief of the Department. If he didn't stop you from interfering in my personal life I would go over his head to the fire board. If that didn't work I may consider legal action against you personally.

    You may be able to bully your guys at this point but some day someone is going to look across the desk and tell you to kiss their *** about what they do off duty. Then what tough guy? Unless you are paying me 24/7/365 you have no business in my personal life unless I am engaged in illegal activities.
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  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    By the way La, I spoke to my girlfriend and laid out the scenario of us driving down the road and seeing a car accident in front of us with one of the cars on fire with people inside. I siad what would you think if I said **** it I am not on duty and started to drive by. She was incredulous and said you wouldn't drive by because she would want to see what she could do. My girlfriend is 5'3", not some amazon by any standards, but she would do what she could. So, I guess you could say she EXPECTS me to do what I can because that is what COMPASSIONATE HUMAN BEINGS do.
    Me too bro. I talked to my fiancé last night and pretty much asked her the same thing. I asked her if we were driving down the road and saw and MVC and I refused to stop and help what would she think. She told me that it would be very ****ty of me to not help considering I am trained as a firefighter and as an EMS-First Responder. I asked her some other scenarios and got the same response. She told me if I can help and possibly save a life then that’s what I need to do. She told me not to go on a suicide mission but do whatever I can do to help.

    By the way LA, have you told your wife and children that if your house was to catch fire that they were responsible for their own escape and that you would not help them? Just wondering.
    2009 Warren County Firefighter of the Year

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    My volunteer fire department has a career firefighter who volunteers on his off time, an EMT-B and a Paramedic from the local career department as well who volunteers on their off time. Believe it or not, we also have 3 local police officers who are on our department as well that volunteer in their off time.

    Another county volunteer fire department has a member or the local career department on their department as well as 2 local police officers.

    Again, yet another county volunteer fire department has a local career firefighter/paramedic and a paramedic on their department that volunteer in their off time.


    Not unusual here.

    We have about 20 volunteer members who are career firefighters or career paramedics with private or 3rd service EMS agencies. the majority of them are career in other fire districts. 3 of those are career members in the 2 neighboring city FDs.

    2 are also on our board.

    We know there are many members of those 2 urban departments who live in the district but choose not to volunteer.

    Other combo and volunteer departments also have members who are full-time, either from combo departments or small career departments.

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    By the way LA, have you told your wife and children that if your house was to catch fire that they were responsible for their own escape and that you would not help them? Just wondering

    Only my wife and I live in the house. My kids are up north with my ex-wife.

    My wife is a support member on the department. We discuss fire behavior now and then when she asks me why this or why that happened. After a few fires, she began to understand why I am a nut about smoke detectors and fire extinguishers and flashlights at the bed side. She understands very well that in any fire, unless you act to rescue yourself in the first few minutes before the FD arrives, there is a good chance they will be too late to effect a rescue.

    And again, where did I say I wouldn't help them if the risks were manageable?

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    IDK, fellas I done with this one. I am tired to trying to justify why I think firefighters and EMS should help people no matter when, where or why. Frankly LA, I don’t care if your entire town burns down. I am going to do things my way and you can do things your way. I know that what I am doing is right and I can look myself in the mirror and know I did the right thing. And I know in your twisted way you can too, so at least we have that in common.

    God bless you.
    2009 Warren County Firefighter of the Year

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    Do they have a legal duty to act in Louisana? Are you required to do SOMETHING?

    Legal duty is only required if you are on-duty, which is defined as receiving compensation.

    There is no legal requirement to act if not being compensated.

    This includes volunteers, who are not bound at any time to act by state law, even within their district.

    Our department has it's own requirements. Many other departments do as well.

    If you are participating in a department training, you are required to respond. if you are simply stopping by for a few minutes to watch, or stopping by the station for a few minutes, you are not required to respond.

    If you are a volunteer riding out for a specified time period, you are required to respond during that time period.

    If you are in a department vehicle, in or out of the district, you are required to act to your level of training.

    If you in a department t-shirt or uniform, within the district, you are required to act within your training if you come upon an incident. A non-EMS qualified person has no duty to act, and can legally not touch a patient. CPR-only qualified members are only allowed to perform CPR, perform airway measures as taught in CPR, and control obvious life-threatening bleeds.

    There is no departmental requirement to act out of the district unless on-duty and/or in a department vehicle.

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    IDK, fellas I done with this one. I am tired to trying to justify why I think firefighters and EMS should help people no matter when, where or why. Frankly LA, I don’t care if your entire town burns down. I am going to do things my way and you can do things your way. I know that what I am doing is right and I can look myself in the mirror and know I did the right thing. And I know in your twisted way you can too, so at least we have that in common.

    And that's fine.

    And it's also fine if firefighters choose not to act.

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    She told me if I can help and possibly save a life then that’s what I need to do. She told me not to go on a suicide mission but do whatever I can do to help.

    And where I have said anything other than that.

    However "too dangerous" is a judgment call based on a number of factors. To me, the chance of me being injured or killed and my family not having an income is significant part of that decision-making process. To others, it seems not to be.

    it's really that simple.

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    LA,

    Just for your information I volunteer on the local FD where I live. I have done it for years.

    I also know several career firefighters that volunteer in their home communities. Oh, and I know of a Union that just negotiated with the city to allow their members to volunteer. Golly a Union did that? Huh? Guess you look foolish again.
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    Just for your information I volunteer on the local FD where I live. I have done it for years.

    I'm aware of that.

    I also know several career firefighters that volunteer in their home communities. Oh, and I know of a Union that just negotiated with the city to allow their members to volunteer. Golly a Union did that? Huh? Guess you look foolish again.


    That's great.

    And no, I don't look foolish because that is more the exception than the rule. I have been on departments that on 2 occasions, lost volunteer personnel when members who worked FT elsewhere lost the right to volunteer as part of union negotiations with the city.

    Around here, while volunteering is not disallowed by the union in the 2 cities, members are defiantly given the feeling by the leadership that it is not something the union looks favorably on.

    Of course, the combo departments, with the exception of a couple, are not unionized. One in particular, lead by the Chief, is very anti-volunteer, and they make no bones about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Just for your information I volunteer on the local FD where I live. I have done it for years.

    I'm aware of that.

    I also know several career firefighters that volunteer in their home communities. Oh, and I know of a Union that just negotiated with the city to allow their members to volunteer. Golly a Union did that? Huh? Guess you look foolish again.


    That's great.

    And no, I don't look foolish because that is more the exception than the rule. I have been on departments that on 2 occasions, lost volunteer personnel when members who worked FT elsewhere lost the right to volunteer as part of union negotiations with the city.

    Around here, while volunteering is not disallowed by the union in the 2 cities, members are defiantly given the feeling by the leadership that it is not something the union looks favorably on.

    Of course, the combo departments, with the exception of a couple, are not unionized. One in particular, lead by the Chief, is very anti-volunteer, and they make no bones about it.
    LA,

    I know you are going to call me a nit picking bastard but I just can't stand it any longer.

    What college did you go to? Did they offer any English classes? Did you take any and pass? Dude, you can't spell the word their, and you used defiantly when you meant definitely. It may seem like a little thing but it happens so often with so many words that it isn't typos it is your inability to spell the simplest of words. If this is an example of the knowledge that people of your age graduated college with we are in serious trouble.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinFFVFD View Post
    Me too bro. I talked to my fiancé last night and pretty much asked her the same thing. I asked her if we were driving down the road and saw and MVC and I refused to stop and help what would she think. She told me that it would be very ****ty of me to not help considering I am trained as a firefighter and as an EMS-First Responder. I asked her some other scenarios and got the same response. She told me if I can help and possibly save a life then that’s what I need to do. She told me not to go on a suicide mission but do whatever I can do to help.

    By the way LA, have you told your wife and children that if your house was to catch fire that they were responsible for their own escape and that you would not help them? Just wondering.
    I just asked my girlfriend the same question, same scenario. Driving down the road, come up on a MVA and I say "**** it I'm not gonna stop. Not my problem, not on duty." Her response?
    "There is NO ****ING WAY I would let you pass by. You have training in this area, why wait when you have the chance to save someones life?" If I got hurt, or I got killed, she would understand I died trying to SAVE THE LIFE of a fellow human in trouble. I would also pass with a clear conscience knowing I tried to help my fellow man.

    If letting people burn (TOTALLY different than attempting and not being able to make the save) leaves you unaffected, and with a clear conscience, you are sad ****ing excuse for a firefighter, and moreover a sad excuse for a human being.
    Last edited by Chenzo; 01-22-2010 at 10:43 PM. Reason: Spelling. Think I caught it all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Only my wife and I live in the house. My kids are up north with my ex-wife.
    Clearly the smarter ones.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    By the way LA, have you told your wife and children that if your house was to catch fire that they were responsible for their own escape and that you would not help them? Just wondering

    Only my wife and I live in the house. My kids are up north with my ex-wife.

    Thank the good Lord they are out of your care and safe.

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    http://www.lohud.com/article/20101230334

    GREENBURGH — An off-duty New York City firefighter rescued a disabled child and his baby sitter from a house fire Friday afternoon........


    "I didn't do anything special," Murray said. "Anyone in my situation would have done the same thing." He said the firefighters battling the blaze were the real heroes.......
    nice job chris.....if only you knew how wrong your statement is though.....
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And that's fine.

    And it's also fine if firefighters choose not to act.
    This right here is why your nothing more than a fu*king pot stirring troll. You added the second part with the sole intent of riling kevin up again. Your a sad, sad man LA, sad indeed.

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    LAfire-

    Let me please run a few scenarios past you, I am curious to how you would handle them.

    Scenario #1
    You are out driving in a neighboring town and you come across a large group of people yelling and screaming that their 3 year old has just fell into a pond and cannot swim. You get out of your car to look and you see a 3 year old boy going under the water and you know that this towns FD is 6+ minutes out, what would you do?

    #2
    You are outside of your FD's district and you see a MVA followed by a young girl who was hit. What is your course of action?

    #3
    You are out at a casual restaurant outside of your FD's district for dinner and you hear a thump on the floor followed by some screams and the words "Help my son, he is chocking some one please help!" What do you do?

    #4
    You are out shopping at a store a few miles out of your FD's distinct and you see a man go into cardiac arrest, but as fell to the ground you notice a bag full of drugs and drug paraphernalia on the ground. What do you do?

    Thank you for your time.
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