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    Default Updated Nims requirements??

    Can someone take the time to inform me of how i can make sure our department is nims compliant. Thank you.... i have done a search but found nothing recently.

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    * Complete the NIMS Awareness Course "IS-700 National Incident Management System (NIMS), An Introduction." (All entry level First Responders and disaster workers);
    * Complete ICS 100: Introduction to ICS. (All entry level First Responders and disaster workers);
    * Complete ICS 200: Basic ICS. (All personnel listed above plus single resource leaders, first line supervisors, field supervisors and other emergency management/response personnel that require a higher level of ICS/NIMS Training);
    * Complete the National Response Plan Course IS-800 NRP: An Introduction. (All personnel listed above plus middle management including strike team leaders, task force leaders, unit leaders, division/group supervisors, branch directors and multi-agency coordination system/emergency operations center staff);
    * Complete ICS 300: Intermediate ICS. (All personnel listed above plus middle management including strike team leaders, task force leaders, unit leaders, division/group supervisors, branch directors and multi-agency coordination system/emergency operations center staff); and
    * Complete ICS 400: Advanced ICS. (All personnel listed above plus Command and general staff, select department heads with multi-agency coordination system responsibilities, area commanders, emergency managers and multi-agency coordination system/emergency operations center managers).

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    Default

    yeah, what he said.

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    thanks i appreciate it....

    one more question... do our commisioners have to adopt nims? or can just the company itself apply for the fema grants?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrown8988 View Post
    thanks i appreciate it....

    one more question... do our commisioners have to adopt nims? or can just the company itself apply for the fema grants?
    Yes and Yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by TotowaEMT View Post
    * Complete IS-700 * Complete ICS 100 * Complete ICS 200 * Complete IS-800 * Complete ICS 300 * Complete ICS 400.
    Oh Ohh... you hit a nerve.... <RANT MODE ON>

    Those are the TRAINING requirment for NIMS, but not anything related to Typing, Credentialing, Common Operating System, Exercises, Planning, and a whole bunch of other NIMS stuff that not even FEMA can explain!
    Last I looked there were more than 30 fed objectives under NIMS, all "requirements" which came in over various years.

    This is why I insist that NO DEPARTMENT can say that they are 100% NIMS Compliant, because not even FEMA knows what that means! If you had a "new guy" (or gal) joing last month, who hasn't taken IS-100 & IS 700, then technically, you aren't compliant, because they are looking for 100% compliance!

    I work in the NIMS world EVERY DAY on my FT job, and believe me, the FEMA folks are out there looking for "best practices" because THEY don't even know what this is supposed to look like.

    You may be as close to 100% compliant as you CAN be, but it's impossible to hit consistant bullseye's when DHS/FEMA keep moving the target!!!

    <RANT MODE OFF>
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

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    I have some members who joined our department since our app was turned in. Do they have to be NIMS Compliant also?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post
    Oh Ohh... you hit a nerve.... <RANT MODE ON>

    Those are the TRAINING requirment for NIMS, but not anything related to Typing, Credentialing, Common Operating System, Exercises, Planning, and a whole bunch of other NIMS stuff that not even FEMA can explain!
    Last I looked there were more than 30 fed objectives under NIMS, all "requirements" which came in over various years.

    This is why I insist that NO DEPARTMENT can say that they are 100% NIMS Compliant, because not even FEMA knows what that means! If you had a "new guy" (or gal) joing last month, who hasn't taken IS-100 & IS 700, then technically, you aren't compliant, because they are looking for 100% compliance!

    I work in the NIMS world EVERY DAY on my FT job, and believe me, the FEMA folks are out there looking for "best practices" because THEY don't even know what this is supposed to look like.

    You may be as close to 100% compliant as you CAN be, but it's impossible to hit consistant bullseye's when DHS/FEMA keep moving the target!!!

    <RANT MODE OFF>
    anyway....

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    When we file our app , we state that we are not 100% compliant as we can never haver every single member get all the classes until a period of time has passed. It takes a few months to get new members up to speed and get them to sit down at the computer. Along with all the other mandated trainings that are required by OSHA, dept of labor, Insurance providers and then get them into FF-1.
    When the town manager asked us why we had not gotten to 100% ,I laughed and asked if all the town office management had completed all the courses? Of course she answered no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    When the town manager asked us why we had not gotten to 100% ,I laughed and asked if all the town office management had completed all the courses? Of course she answered no.
    My point exactly! It's an impossible target to hit! But, then again, they (DHS?FEMA)don't / can't recognize that! NIMS is a concept of operations, with too many intangables.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

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    Cool AFG NIMS requirements

    From 2009 program guidance;

    "AFG recipients will be considered in compliance with this NIMS requirement if
    the grantee: 1) has an operational knowledge of ICS; 2) has an understanding of NIMSí
    principles and policies; and 3) agrees to adopt and/or comply with all directives,
    ordinances, rules, orders, edicts, etc., passed down by local or State authorities with
    respect to incident management."
    "There's no such thing as a bad day,
    Some are just better than others." JFR 1914-1997

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    well ok.... let me simplify my question... What do i have to do so that my department can get fema grants and they dont get taken away? hopefully this will be easier.

    I totally agree this is some crazy **** we gotta deal with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrown8988 View Post
    well ok.... let me simplify my question... What do i have to do so that my department can get fema grants and they dont get taken away? hopefully this will be easier.

    I totally agree this is some crazy **** we gotta deal with.
    Its not tough at all. As posted above,

    "AFG recipients will be considered in compliance with this NIMS requirement if
    the grantee: 1) has an operational knowledge of ICS; 2) has an understanding of NIMSí
    principles and policies; and 3) agrees to adopt and/or comply with all directives,
    ordinances, rules, orders, edicts, etc., passed down by local or State authorities with
    respect to incident management."

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    so i dont have to make everyone take the ics classes? Just as long as the company has the knowledge and agrees to adopt it. ?????

    I'm confused!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrown8988 View Post
    so i dont have to make everyone take the ics classes? Just as long as the company has the knowledge and agrees to adopt it. ?????

    I'm confused!
    no more confused than the rest of us including the folks that keep changing the rules!

    All first responders need to take 100 & 700. Both can be done in about 30 -45 minutes online and will enter your name into the database along with a certificate to print and put in your training folder.

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    To be on the safe side, I would have your members take the certificate exams that are posted online. I believe you can still get 100, 200, 700, and 800 online. The hardest of the three was 800, and you can take the exam over, and over, and over, and ... You get the picture. They can be completed individually and the certificates are sent to an email account. All you need is for your members to sit in front of the computer and complete it. If they want the new shiney stuff, they should be willing to give a little.

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    I imagine they want you to have a plan in place to achieve the training standards that are set forth on NIMS, but are trying to leave us some room for new people, training availability, etc. if it was me, I would write a SOP about what people need to do, a time frame for doing it, and work to that end, and FEMA should be happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imafireman View Post
    To be on the safe side, I would have your members take the certificate exams that are posted online. I believe you can still get 100, 200, 700, and 800 online. The hardest of the three was 800, and you can take the exam over, and over, and over, and ... You get the picture. They can be completed individually and the certificates are sent to an email account. All you need is for your members to sit in front of the computer and complete it. If they want the new shiney stuff, they should be willing to give a little.
    I agree and they are willing to do the test i just had to figure out what i needed them to take. I want to do it as right as i possibly can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post
    Oh Ohh... you hit a nerve.... <RANT MODE ON>

    Those are the TRAINING requirment for NIMS, but not anything related to Typing, Credentialing, Common Operating System, Exercises, Planning, and a whole bunch of other NIMS stuff that not even FEMA can explain!
    Last I looked there were more than 30 fed objectives under NIMS, all "requirements" which came in over various years.

    This is why I insist that NO DEPARTMENT can say that they are 100% NIMS Compliant, because not even FEMA knows what that means! If you had a "new guy" (or gal) joing last month, who hasn't taken IS-100 & IS 700, then technically, you aren't compliant, because they are looking for 100% compliance!

    I work in the NIMS world EVERY DAY on my FT job, and believe me, the FEMA folks are out there looking for "best practices" because THEY don't even know what this is supposed to look like.

    You may be as close to 100% compliant as you CAN be, but it's impossible to hit consistant bullseye's when DHS/FEMA keep moving the target!!!

    <RANT MODE OFF>
    NIMS/ISC is basically a good concept that got so convaluted and screwed up by bureaucrats trying to justify the existance of thier postion at the trough it's near impossible to understand or implement fully. Right now our regional mutual aid co-ordinator is hounding me to sign up for the 300 and 400 classes they are putting on next month, I'm not taking 6 unpaid days off to set through this nonsense. MO SEMA's reccomendations can be found here

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    Quote Originally Posted by OsbornFPD View Post
    NIMS/ISC is basically a good concept that got so convaluted and screwed up by bureaucrats trying to justify the existance of thier postion at the trough it's near impossible to understand or implement fully. Right now our regional mutual aid co-ordinator is hounding me to sign up for the 300 and 400 classes they are putting on next month, I'm not taking 6 unpaid days off to set through this nonsense. MO SEMA's reccomendations can be found here
    Osborn and DFDCar1 are on target. IMHO

    NIMS and ICS must not change the requirements/standards after they have been set. They must add on additional required certifications, and they must not be in position to ,,,punish anyone.

    (Looking forward to the winter Olympics)

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    Winter Olympics Jam24u? I canít wait till college football is back. Looking forward to seeing Nebraska beat Texas again. Oh yea they beat them this year and everyone knows that seen the game. Bama and Nebraska in the BCS championship. Now that would be a good one. My thoughts on NIMS are itís the biggest bunch of nothing that I have ever seen. How about a class on common sense. I would be the first to sign up for that one. "I know I need it"

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrown8988 View Post
    thanks i appreciate it....

    one more question... do our commisioners have to adopt nims? or can just the company itself apply for the fema grants?
    To answer your specific question, the applicant agency has to be in compliance. You will not be denied for the failure of others to comply.
    Kurt Bradley
    Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
    " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    Wink Well, not quite.

    Quote Originally Posted by dfd701 View Post
    Winter Olympics Jam24u? I canít wait till college football is back. Looking forward to seeing Nebraska beat Texas again. Oh yea they beat them this year and everyone knows that seen the game. Bama and Nebraska in the BCS championship. Now that would be a good one. My thoughts on NIMS are itís the biggest bunch of nothing that I have ever seen. How about a class on common sense. I would be the first to sign up for that one. "I know I need it"
    I doubt the Huskers would have won playing against Bama. It was far better for the Huskers to have lost the big 12 championship because it would have not done the Big 12 any good, however we could not have 'Lost' it in any better fashion. (putting one second back on) As far as the BCS game, as good as Bama was they would not have beaten Texas. I thought Bama was going to be the better team. Sorry, but Texas had Bama reeling until McCoy was injured and a Freshman gave the game away on two plays. Exciting game though. I'm sure Bama would have wished that there was no injury controvesy in their championship win. Sabin is that kind of coach.

    On the matter of NIMS, I have to disagree about it being nothing. When we respond as a mutual aid partner and arrive at the scene, I find out who is in charge and walk up and say we are here, what do you need and we are using NIMS protocols, right?
    This eliminates those freelancing departments or members. When it is our fire scene and I am in charge, I demand NIMS protocols be observed. I'm used to being on the quarterdeck and know how to give and take instructions. NIMS is the foundation that cannot be argued against. It takes only a few times of using NIMS protocols to feel the relief it brings when on your fire or someone elses.

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    My thoughts on NIMS are it’s the biggest bunch of nothing that I have ever seen.
    Although I can only argue this point from the perspective of someone outside the box (I am a civilian) and from the academic perspective, having recently completed my fire science degree and spent many hours researching and studying NIMS, as well as taking NIMS 100, 400,, and 700, I would have to disagree with your comment. NIMS is essentially a management system that provides a foundation for managing anything and any type of incident regardless of the size of the incident. It does work and it has been proven to work when everyone has been trained on the principles and everyone is working from the same page and even more so when you have a large incident with multiple agencies responding. just my 2 cents. I do not claim to be an expert on NIMS or on the fire service. I am merely offering my perspective as someone who has researched and studied it.
    Last edited by cheffie; 01-23-2010 at 11:24 PM.

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    Well I thought I would **** somebody off with that comment. I have a bad habit of saying what I think. About the football: I think Bo has the U. N. on the right track again. I can remember when the AD there was coaching. Back then they where the power house. The one that got the shaft was Boise State but enough about football. On the subject of NIMS, I donít disagree with the fundamentals of NIMS. Isnít that the same as what we learned in IC class 20 years ago just more added to it? It is the idea of cramming it down our throat. Feb. 1. I will be at this for 27 years and I never got use to the politics side of it. I hate it with a passion. So if I sound like a grumpy old fart, than I guess you have me pegged. My father always said you canít learn with your mouth open so I will reframe from putting my two cents in and do more reading. Thanks and have a great day.

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