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    Default How many lay offs possible in your area

    Tulsa is still negotiating with both the police and fire unions. The current numbers are 155 police and around 130 fire. Roughly 20% of each are facing lay off.

    Matt

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    Fortunately, we aren't looking at any layoffs. However, that has more to do with the fact that we're already cut so far down (nothing to do with the current economic issues) there isn't anything left to cut. Layoffs would only costs our city money unless the minimum staffing requirements were eliminated.

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    Zero. Has not been a cut or draw down of personnel in anyones memory. Recruit numbers to be 90 or more this year, about 30 new positions.

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    Local city is looking to eliminate 4 unfilled police positions. Naturally the Union stated that public safety will be compromised. Now not for nothing, but it is the same old song and dance; in an effort to beef up the Union. Noting form nothing is still nothing, difference is the tax payers will save millions over the next 10 years by not filling those positions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Local city is looking to eliminate 4 unfilled police positions. Naturally the Union stated that public safety will be compromised. Now not for nothing, but it is the same old song and dance; in an effort to beef up the Union. Noting form nothing is still nothing, difference is the tax payers will save millions over the next 10 years by not filling those positions.
    Really? Slower response to calls, less officers on patrol, increased call volumes on the remaining force, more wear and tear on the cruisers, more chance of injury..

    yeah.. all those things are real moneysavers...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Local city is looking to eliminate 4 unfilled police positions. Naturally the Union stated that public safety will be compromised. Now not for nothing, but it is the same old song and dance; in an effort to beef up the Union. Noting form nothing is still nothing, difference is the tax payers will save millions over the next 10 years by not filling those positions.


    It shouldn't make a tinkers damn to you, as you aren't anything in that burg but a lesion.

    We call folks like you around our part of the world a blister.

    Always shows up after the work is done.


    Besides you have been here 366 days and have posted 6839 nothing post! Has to be a new record for this site.

    Eating up precious space on the web site.
    Last edited by Jonnee; 01-23-2010 at 04:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Really? Slower response to calls, less officers on patrol, increased call volumes on the remaining force, more wear and tear on the cruisers, more chance of injury..

    yeah.. all those things are real moneysavers...
    Hate to agree, but he is talking about 4 UNFILLED positions. They already have been working at that level. The same level would continue. Were they over staffed before? Who knows.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Really? Slower response to calls, less officers on patrol, increased call volumes on the remaining force, more wear and tear on the cruisers, more chance of injury..

    yeah.. all those things are real moneysavers...
    Yea, be a shame they have to actually get out of the donut shop and do something. This local clowns have a reputation of being jerks and harassing people. My friend lives in the city. For that privilege she gets another $3,000 in taxes each year that I don't pay. She hates it.

    I was privy to a little incident on Christmas eve. This fellow got drunk, became abusive and threatening. He was out of control. They called the PD and they sent Barney Fife and gang over. They stopped, checked things out, called for a cab, and left. WTF!!! At least stick around until he is in the cab. Useless they are.

    Of course if I use your logic then they should add another 100 officers. The people feel there are too many of these jokers on the force already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnee View Post
    It shouldn't make a tinkers damn to you, as you aren't anything in that burg but a lesion.

    We call folks like you around our part of the world a blister.

    Always shows up after the work is done.


    Besides you have been here 366 days I guess math isn't your strong suit. Hint, it is now 2010 Did you just wake up Rip? and have posted 6839 Keep practicing, when you get tot he point where you can read, think and write faster you will be able to do more than one or two posts a week as well.nothing post! Has to be a new record for this site.

    Eating up precious space on the web site.
    It does matter as I have friends who pay those taxes.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 01-25-2010 at 11:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Hate to agree, but he is talking about 4 UNFILLED positions. They already have been working at that level. The same level would continue. Were they over staffed before? Who knows.
    Ohhh, I won't tell that we agreed. But you are right, these are unfilled positions. Being that there has been no outcry from the public for better then one must assume they are happy with the current level. Although, in talking to some of the people that live there, they want less yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    ...I was privy to a little incident on Christmas eve. This fellow got drunk, became abusive and threatening. He was out of control. They called the PD and they sent Barney Fife and gang over. They stopped, checked things out, called for a cab, and left. WTF!!! At least stick around until he is in the cab. Useless they are...
    What time did the cab come and pick you up?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Canandaigua NY which is a bit down the thruway from me is laying off half of their staff, going from 16 to 8 I believe. City Council is trying to replace them with volunteers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Hate to agree, but he is talking about 4 UNFILLED positions. They already have been working at that level. The same level would continue. Were they over staffed before? Who knows.

    It's probably that the four unfilled spots are filled with overtime officers. Chances are that the four spots are still filled on the streets, but now they are looking at not funding those spots, which would then cut four patrol positions. At that time it would mean fewer actual feet on the street.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but that is how I read the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    It's probably that the four unfilled spots are filled with overtime officers. Chances are that the four spots are still filled on the streets, but now they are looking at not funding those spots, which would then cut four patrol positions. At that time it would mean fewer actual feet on the street.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but that is how I read the situation.
    Exactly what I was thinking. Our City Manager has asked all dept's for 22% but from this budget, and I know PD is talking about not filling at least one position. They'll pay more in OT but the OT line is one that is "allowed" to be overspent, so there is no actual savings, in fact likely a higher cost. I know we cannot afford to not fill positions here as the OT eats up any savings very quickly.

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    My PD has had 2 unfilled positions for 2 years now. They are not being filled by overtime officers. 2 years ago, the PD was forced to put less feet on the street. Now, 2 years later, the positions are simply being eliminated. The reduction in service was 2 years ago, not now, when the positions are being eliminated.

    It sucks, but again, it sucked much more 2 years ago.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    It's probably that the four unfilled spots are filled with overtime officers. Chances are that the four spots are still filled on the streets, but now they are looking at not funding those spots, which would then cut four patrol positions. At that time it would mean fewer actual feet on the street.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but that is how I read the situation.
    Not 100% sure. But I believe that there is an Overtime budget as well. There just aren't patrols on the streets during the less busy times. Sunday through Thursday there are typically fewer patrols on the roads in the entire area, that includes SP, Sheriffs, and the locals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Exactly what I was thinking. Our City Manager has asked all dept's for 22% but from this budget, and I know PD is talking about not filling at least one position. They'll pay more in OT but the OT line is one that is "allowed" to be overspent, so there is no actual savings, in fact likely a higher cost. I know we cannot afford to not fill positions here as the OT eats up any savings very quickly.
    Not going to say you are wrong, but you might want to double check with your chief. Anyplace I have ever been the OT spending is part of the budget.

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    No layoffs in over 120 years of service-Hired 3 last year, looks like more this year. It helps that our Chief has always been a conservative kinda guy. He didn't go buy all new trucks and hire with every last penny we had during the boom.

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    as stated by nameless, the city in canandaigua ny already laid off 6 career guys and is looking to cut 8 more by the end of this year with retirements and layoffs. thier also hitting the PD and DPW too. sucky deal for the guys, gotta hurt right after xmas. they went from 4 on staff down to one driver on duty. i believe all the career capts were demoted to ff too. im hoping that a few of the guys get picked up by the Cananadaigua VA FD, i heard the other day by a family member who works there they have an opening. but its the same old story somehow city government all of a sudden figured out they were going to have a problem with the budget, so lets fire people and save the bucks...... dont forget to save the bucks for our city feel good social programs so we look good when our re-election campaigns come up! poor planning all i have to say.

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    -1050 Firemen, close 20 companies, and take away the 5th man in the Engine

    -3150 Police Officers

    -900 Corrections Officers

    -8500 Teachers
    IACOJ Member

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    First of all, no one should be looking at layoff's. The IAFF has worked with the Obama administration in regards to the Fire Act grant, the SAFER grant, and the stimulus package. All these departments need to do is report their local situations to the Governor of their state. FREE money is available for a period of 3 years to hire back any firefighter that is laid off.

    Second of all, I know a good portion of you will deny these facts, bash the union, and try to call BS instead of researching it for yourself and finding it to be true. For those of you.......we are hiring.

    Example from MASS: http://www.iaff.org/Comm/Spotlight/0...100709Mass.htm
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 02-01-2010 at 06:59 PM.
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    problem with the Safer grant, they are locked into staffing levels for what is it 3-5 years? Many local government officials don't like that. They want the free money and the ability to gut the fire department at will. Sad time to be in

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    First of all, no one should be looking at layoff's. The IAFF has worked with the Obama administration in regards to the Fire Act grant, the SAFER grant, and the stimulus package. All these departments need to do is report their local situations to the Governor of their state. FREE money is available for a period of 3 years to hire back any firefighter that is laid off.

    Second of all, I know a good portion of you will deny these facts, bash the union, and try to call BS instead of researching it for yourself and finding it to be true. For those of you.......we are hiring.

    Example from MASS: http://www.iaff.org/Comm/Spotlight/0...100709Mass.htm
    While the infusion of federal dollars into local budgets is a great temporary measure, what happens when the federal dollars stop? I think a better mor permanant solution is to take an honest look at your total city budget and prioritize spending. In theese times, certain things will have to go with public safety being last.

    Also, to my knowledge (and please correct me if im wrong) is that the SAFER grant money requires a local share that increases with time. If that money was there, would the SAFER money be required in the first place?
    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontvilleFire39 View Post
    While the infusion of federal dollars into local budgets is a great temporary measure, what happens when the federal dollars stop? I think a better mor permanant solution is to take an honest look at your total city budget and prioritize spending. In theese times, certain things will have to go with public safety being last.

    Also, to my knowledge (and please correct me if im wrong) is that the SAFER grant money requires a local share that increases with time. If that money was there, would the SAFER money be required in the first place?
    I know the upcoming award period is supposed to be non-matching awards, so really there's not much reason to not apply.

    You're right that it would only be a temporary fix, but maintaining staffing for 3 more years is definitely better than being down staff for those 3 years. Plus, it might buy enough time for the municipality to work out the budget stuff and be in position to maintain those jobs.

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    Alot possible.

    But not necessarily probable.

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