Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    idaho falls
    Posts
    52

    Default Driver or Lieutenant?

    Recently or Chief wanted new badges so when he realized he couldn't fit Driver Operator onto a badge he thought about leaving them to say firefighter. One of the Driver's had an idea to change the title from the current title of Driver Operator to Lieutenant.
    The Chief asked the drivers if that is what he wanted to change the name to that we come up with a written proposal and have it submitted to the Chief. So I am asking any of you out there to let me know some Pros and Cons to having the Title Lieutenant. A lot of us agreed that a driver has more of a leadership role. so a leadership title would be more appropriate to represent the responsibility involved.


  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bryn Athyn, Pa.
    Posts
    1,618

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ashncole View Post
    Recently or Chief wanted new badges so when he realized he couldn't fit Driver Operator onto a badge he thought about leaving them to say firefighter. One of the Driver's had an idea to change the title from the current title of Driver Operator to Lieutenant.
    The Chief asked the drivers if that is what he wanted to change the name to that we come up with a written proposal and have it submitted to the Chief. So I am asking any of you out there to let me know some Pros and Cons to having the Title Lieutenant. A lot of us agreed that a driver has more of a leadership role. so a leadership title would be more appropriate to represent the responsibility involved.
    Anyone can call anyone anything they want to, I suppose. Just mere semantics, you could say. But really, common usage and tradition might want to have a say here. In both the fire service, the police service and especially the military, the rank of title, "Lieutenant" does imply an officer level position. To call a driver lieutenant (unless the person also holds that title) could create confusion when you mix it up with other departments.

    Is there a reason why you would not want to do what is done in so many other places, that is, call them "Engineer?" Many, many cities have "Engineer" as an official title. FDNY and many places on the east coast, on the other hand, call them "Chauffeur," again, as an official title or rank. To me this does the same thing without implying an officer level and also more clearly defines the post.

    Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

  3. #3
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,395

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ashncole View Post
    Recently or Chief wanted new badges so when he realized he couldn't fit Driver Operator onto a badge he thought about leaving them to say firefighter. One of the Driver's had an idea to change the title from the current title of Driver Operator to Lieutenant.
    The Chief asked the drivers if that is what he wanted to change the name to that we come up with a written proposal and have it submitted to the Chief. So I am asking any of you out there to let me know some Pros and Cons to having the Title Lieutenant. A lot of us agreed that a driver has more of a leadership role. so a leadership title would be more appropriate to represent the responsibility involved.
    No offense but if you are allowing your drivers to assume roles of responsibilty on a fireground, then you really need to rethink your operations. A D/O (or chauffer, MPO, LCC, ECC, Engineer, or whatever else you want to call them) are just like any other "black hat" on a piece of apparatus, with a specifically defined role, with tactical objectives to carry out in the event of a working fire. These tactical objective should not be interfered with by having to assume other roles/responsibilities, especially that of Company Officer. Drivers are Drivers, period.

    Now, when you say "more of a leadership role" perhaps you are speaking of when off the fireground and inside the firehouse- Many drivers are senior-level firefighters, many Cities know them as "The Senior Man" or "The First Whip." In Naval Parlances, they are known as "The Chief" or "Senior Chief", in the Army they are known as the Company First Sergent. These are the highest seniority non-coms out there, and as such the Commissioned Officers depend on their "running the outfits." In the firehouse, they have the unofficial title of "Mom" (Company officer being "Dad" and everyone else are the kids.)

    I would just keep them as Firefighters, because essentially that is what they are- But if you really do have to make them feel special and give them a name, use "Engineer" or "Driver."
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    470

    Default

    Our D/Os wear badges that say Firefighter on them. They have the added training/responsibility of driving and pumping (for which they are financially compensated), but the leadership still comes from the company officer (either a Lieutenant or Captain).

    Unless they are operating as the company officer, which as stated above is not a good idea, then they shouldn't have an officer's title. This could be confusing in a mutual aid situation.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Outside Philadelphia
    Posts
    519

    Default

    I can tell you that a specific branch of Federal Firefighter's, that i will be leaving soon, uses Lt's as driver's. With the exception of the t-shirt firefighter's, most of them think it's retarded!!!
    A Fire Chief has ONLY 1 JOB and that's to take care of his fireman. EVERYTHING else falls under this.

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,802

    Default

    I'd use Engineer or Chauffeur if you are really bent on a specific title. I can definitely see it causing confusion when providing or receiving mutual aid, unless you are part of some weird pocket of depts. that us Lieutenant as a title for drivers. Most other departments will assume a company officer when they hear someone called Lieutenant.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,562

    Default

    We do not have LTs.

    We use the term Senior Firefighters. This is an equivalent term to "Driver" in the 2 neighboring cities, neither of which use the position of LTs.

    Our Senior Firefighters are responsible for the upkeep and weekly checks, but not necessarily, driving an assigned piece of equipment. Often they will assume the role of the officer in the right-hand seat of an apparatus, and once on-scene will be placed in charge of crews, tactical assignments or geographic areas. If on-scene initially, they will establish command and direct operations. In many cases, once a Captain arrives, they will maintain command.

    They work with the Station Captains at their assigned stations, They are also most often responsible for conducting driver training as well as other training as assigned.

  8. #8
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,920

    Default

    My career FD calls the driver/operators MPO's, Motor Pump Operator. My volly FD just calls them drivers.

    Why can't the badge just say Driver on it? It seems to have some validity in your department already.

    A driver is not the same as a lieutenant. A driver drives, operates and maintains fire apparatus. A lieutenant is in charge of a company of firefighters.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  9. #9
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    We call our driver/operators FAE's (Fire apparatus engineers). To make or put them as a Lieutenant, would mean they have an authoritative role in the FD, or on scene, in which they don't. They are only responsible for the operation of their apparatus.

    I would recommend either 1) Driver 2)Operator 3)Engineer or any 3 letter combo to separate them from Fire Fighter. They do deserve at least that much, as their responsibility is above that of Fire Fighter.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  10. #10
    Forum Member ffemtb722's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    montgomery county, va
    Posts
    50

    Default

    At my vol. fire dept we elect 3 engineers (that are also concidered line officers) they are to know the operation of all trucks and to see the equipment functions properly and is maintained. but oddly enuff being able to drive the apparatus isn't a reqirement.

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    62

    Default

    We call them drivers, operators or enginers depending on there level of training

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    idaho falls
    Posts
    52

    Default

    "Is there a reason why you would not want to do what is done in so many other places, that is, call them "Engineer?" Many, many cities have "Engineer" as an official title."

    I had also mentioned this but some thought it implied the "engineer" has a degree in engineering.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ashncole View Post
    "Is there a reason why you would not want to do what is done in so many other places, that is, call them "Engineer?" Many, many cities have "Engineer" as an official title."

    I had also mentioned this but some thought it implied the "engineer" has a degree in engineering.
    In the fire service when you say engineer 99% of the people know you are talking about the driver/operator of a truck/engine. Outside the fire service when you say engineer people will think of the engineer as a person sitting behind a desk trying to re-invent the wheel.

    Our drivers have the rank of engineer. Their badge and collar brass both say it, their lid says it on the front and is red in color, and their t-shirts have their rank on the front right side.

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,562

    Default

    Our Senior Firefighters/Drivers have the collar brass of an LT - single bugle and are in a command position over the rank of Firefighter.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    24

    Default

    We use Engineer for our badges. We have Lieutenants and Captains for company officers. I believe Chattanooga, TN designates their driver/operators as Lieutenants and their company officers as Captains. When the Captain is off the Lt./Driver slides over to the officer's seat. This way there is always on officer on the apparatus.

  16. #16
    Forum Member IronsMan53's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    656

    Default

    I would be completely against calling a driver Lieutenant. Just about anywhere you go Lieutenant and Captain ranks indicate a company officer position, i.e. the person in charge of the company. Throwing another officer title in there could do nothing but cause confusion especially if you operate with mutual aide companies.



    That being said... I am not one to assign a rank to our drivers. They are firefighters and if they are qualified to wheel the wagon we call them Driver Operators (but still a firefighter rank). But, if you guys are so determined to have a special rank for your driver, chauffer, MPO (motor pump operator), driver/operator, engineer, whatever might I suggest the rank of Sargeant. A department nearby had (or maybe even still has) that rank for their "Senior Firefighters".
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Never Forget!
    By wyesguy24 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 09-11-2007, 09:25 PM
  2. saying from 9-11-01 and the year 2001
    By mtnfyre21 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-26-2005, 08:51 AM
  3. Utah-Truck Driver has Fatal Medical problem
    By UTFFEMT in forum Fire Wire
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-29-2005, 05:22 PM
  4. Wrong place, wrong time...Worcester Lieutenant shot (IOD)
    By Dalmatian90 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-28-2004, 09:18 AM
  5. We have to look into our darkest day
    By harlemBrother in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-02-2002, 06:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts