1. #1
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    Default Safer questions again

    Kurt, giving you another shout out along with others.


    I have read that program guidnence till I am crossed eyed. The document states that the 4 firefigher requirement is for the first arriving engine.

    So do I have to have 4 firefighers on each engine.


    At this time we respone with 3 engines and a ladder on every structure call. This gives us at least 8 firefighers somestimes 9 or 10 if no one on vacation.

    Again so does program guidence require a career department to respond with 4 on every engine/ladder? That woul mean that we would have to ask for an addional 6 other firemen for the other 3 engines multiplies by 3 shifts would be an additional 18 people?

    I am confused Kurt.

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    Meeting the Four-Firefighter Standard: DHS recommends, based on guidance from the criteria development panel, that for the purposes of the SAFER Grants, a safe and efficient initial attack requires a minimum of four firefighters. Therefore, applicants who come into compliance with the minimum four firefighter standard for the first arriving engine (or vehicle capable of initiating suppression activities), by requesting the fewest number of additional personnel, receive higher consideration than applicants requesting a higher number of additional personnel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by morgancity View Post
    Kurt, giving you another shout out along with others.


    I have read that program guidnence till I am crossed eyed. The document states that the 4 firefigher requirement is for the first arriving engine.

    So do I have to have 4 firefighers on each engine.


    At this time we respone with 3 engines and a ladder on every structure call. This gives us at least 8 firefighers somestimes 9 or 10 if no one on vacation.

    Again so does program guidence require a career department to respond with 4 on every engine/ladder? That woul mean that we would have to ask for an addional 6 other firemen for the other 3 engines multiplies by 3 shifts would be an additional 18 people?

    I am confused Kurt.
    I don't blame you Mark, it is confusing and I admit that I am also slightly confused with these new rules here but as stated in the program guidance here:

    D. Priority Development Process
    The goal of the SAFER Grants is to enhance local fire departments’ abilities to comply with staffing, response, and operational standards established by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA). Specifically, the grants focus on standards included in the deployment and assembly sections of NFPA 1710 and/or NFPA 1720, and the respiratory protection section of OSHA 1910.134 (see www.nfpa.org/SAFERActGrant for more details).
    SAFER intends to improve local fire departments’ staffing and deployment capabilities, so they may more effectively respond to emergencies whenever they may occur. It is hoped that as a result of the enhanced or restored staffing, a SAFER grantee’s response time should be sufficiently reduced with an appropriate number of trained personnel assembled at the incident scene. Additionally, the enhanced or restored staffing levels should provide improved safety for firefighters by ensuring all frontline/first-due apparatus of SAFER grantees have a minimum of four qualified personnel to meet the NFPA standards referenced above. Ultimately, SAFER grantees should achieve more efficient responses and a safer incident scene; thereby ensuring communities have improved protection from fire and fire-related hazards.
    Kurt Bradley
    Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
    " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    Default

    I know some urban departments are being forced to reduce to a 3 man per apparatus. A few months ago the standard was 4 man per apparatus.

    My point is, could this be construed to pressure citys that they could be non compliant? Does this relate back to Union influence within the guidelines and the NFPA?

    (just wondering out loud)

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    Red face

    Within the SAME program guidnece they have two differenct answers. That's the confusing part. I will have to call help desk I suppose.

    ms

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    Meeting the Four-Firefighter Standard: DHS recommends, based on guidance from the criteria development panel, that for the purposes of the SAFER Grants, a safe and efficient initial attack requires a minimum of four firefighters. Therefore, applicants who come into compliance with the minimum four firefighter standard for the first arriving engine (or vehicle capable of initiating suppression activities), by requesting the fewest number of additional personnel, receive higher consideration than applicants requesting a higher number of additional personnel.

    So please explain someone.....eeekkkkk....

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    Then again, can't gurentee what engine arives first. So 4 on every truck would do it.

    After many hours of pondering. Guess, I am reading more into it.

    thanks again kurt.

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