Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 6 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 117
  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Question LAFD Defends Dog Rescue

    Saw this on the news last week and formed an opinion about it.

    LAFD Defends Dog Rescue

    Saving a German shepherd stuck in the rising Los Angeles River was the right thing to do, the risks were slight, rescue crews were on standby, extra taxpayer money wasn't used and the alternatives were unacceptable, authorities said Monday.

    The helicopter and swift water rescue crew members that saved the dog on Friday have been hailed as heroes, feted on television and radio and congratulated on the Web and in print. But they have also been vilified by a few in blogs, on social networks and story comment sections.

    "You're not going to please everybody. There's always 10 percent, they either don't like animals or think we are wasting taxpayer money," Capt. Steve Ruda said.

    The dog, nicknamed Vernon after the city where he was rescued, remained in quarantine at the Southeast Area Animal Control Authority shelter in Downey, just south of Los Angeles.

    Joe St. Georges, 50, the 25-year firefighting veteran who hoisted Vernon to safety, lost a fingernail and fractured a thumb when the dog bit him during the rescue. St. Georges just needs time to heal and he will be back at work, Ruda said. "He's anxious to get back to work to be with his crew."

    The dog, which appears to be about 4 years old and weighs about 65 pounds, was eating everything given to him, sleeping well and showing no signs of rabies, said Capt. Aaron Reyes, director of operations for the SAACA shelter.

    If no owner shows up, "we do have a mile-long list of people who want him," Reyes said.

    On several Internet sites with comments about the rescue, the only people who left their names were those who supported the effort. There were a couple of open critics, but their identities were not easy to decipher.

    Friday's rescue was televised nationally by the major cable channels.

    About an eighth of a mile downstream from the rescue site, the water was much deeper and the current much faster, Reyes said.

    The dog would have drifted on down and died. Do you just wait at the mouth of the river and wait for the carcass? Any way you slice it, that is unacceptable. They would not have been able to live that down," Reyes said. "They made a decision and we support that decision."

    Firefighters on the ground said a crew could get the dog and the helicopter pilot, who had been standing by just 45 seconds away from the river, reported he could clear high tension lines in the area, Ruda said.

    Swift water teams were on standby because of weeklong storms that had dumped as much as 8 inches of rain on some parts of Los Angeles County, Ruda said. Although as many as 50 firefighters were at the river, no firefighters were called in on overtime to take part in the rescue.

    "All life is important," Ruda said. To prove his point, he pointed out that firefighters carry oxygen masks for cats and dogs that become victims of fire.

    In addition, he said, 900 people die every year across the country in water accidents and one-third of them are rescuers. If St. Georges and his crew had failed to get the dog, "civilians, do-gooders and good Samaritans" would have been in the river, Ruda said.

    The dog is thoroughly enjoying all the attention, Reyes said. "He's a big lover" and caters to women at the shelter.
    Seemed to me a waste of a lot of resources, including a helicopter. I have two dogs, and they stay inside not out in some dog coup. So yes I am a dog lover, but there comes a time......

    I'm curious to know what others think.


  2. #2
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,577

    Default

    We don't give a fat rat's rump what you think.

    It was the LAFD's call, and doesn't affect you in any way , shape or form.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  3. #3
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,202

    Default

    Here he goes again, oral diarrhea when he knows nothing about this except what he reads and what he see on CNN.

    Forming an opinion about a fire department making a rescue, be it people or canine, shows how narrow minded you are.

    Maybe the police should have flew over and shot the dog. You would be bitching about that as well.
    Last edited by CaptOldTimer; 01-26-2010 at 11:26 AM.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  4. #4
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    The only expense this rescue incurred was a few gallons of Jet-A for the bird. That's it. Everyone had required and necessary PPE. Everyone had the necessary and required training. There were no doubt a handful if not more people in charge of making sure this didn't get stupid. And they're all trained in that river, which btw is just a big cement channel. It was not a suicidal radical dangerous unbelievable grab. A guy on a rope grabbed a dog. Its on the news because of human interest value of pets. I bet if it was a person, this wouldn't even have been on the news.

    If you are soooooo appalled by them rescuing a dog from the water, move to Bossier Parish and stfu.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Upstate (Albany area), NY
    Posts
    422

    Default

    I know of several FD's that do animal rescues, whether swift water, ice, or high angle. In all cases, they conduct a briefing to take some of the adrenaline out of the situation, and then take advantage of it as a training / exercise experience, a couple complete with AAR and Improvement Plan, so that they are better at it when they get called-out to rescue a human. Perfect practice makes perfect performance! I happened to see most of this rescue (on FOX, not CNN!) while at work. Nice job, LAFD!
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Seemed to me a waste of a lot of resources, including a helicopter. I have two dogs, and they stay inside not out in some dog coup. So yes I am a dog lover, but there comes a time......
    Would this not be "Good public relations", that you say most of us lack? It was press you could not buy.


    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I'm curious to know what others think.
    Curiosity, or boredom? Seems like the threads you have been posting to have slowed down. Hard to keep your count up when no one will play with you.

  7. #7
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,519

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    The only expense this rescue incurred was a few gallons of Jet-A for the bird.
    And most likely not even that as had they not been flying there, they would have been flying somewhere else.

    Good PR, good training.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  8. #8
    Forum Member gunnyv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    1,424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post
    I know of several FD's that do animal rescues, whether swift water, ice, or high angle. In all cases, they conduct a briefing to take some of the adrenaline out of the situation, and then take advantage of it as a training / exercise experience, a couple complete with AAR and Improvement Plan, so that they are better at it when they get called-out to rescue a human. Perfect practice makes perfect performance!
    Ding, Ding!!!

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber fieldseng2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    826

    Default

    You know what would have happened if they didnt go pluck the mutt out of the drink?? You would have had all kinds of people b*tching about how heartless the LAFD is to let the dog drown.

    The town were I was on the job previously had a lake right in the middle of town. It had a pretty walkway and all that around the downtown part. Many occasions we had to put on the gumby suits and get a dog out of the icey water.

    One winter when it was really cold....someone called fire HQ about a duck stuck on the ice. This little lake was famous for its resident ducks and geese that lived year round near the dam downtown. The call taker (a Lt. on the job and a big time duck hunter) explained that ducks rarely..if ever get stuck on the ice, and the feathers acted as an insulation to prevent such things. He told the caller we wouldnt send anyone out there....explaining "What if there were a REAL emergency" where people needed our help and we had our resources tied up on something like that...

    By our next shift the caller ended up calling the mayor, and there was a huge article in the paper about how thoughtless and inhumane the FD was because we wouldnt rescue a poor defensless duck. We ended up going out there.....the duck was indeed still in the same spot. We put the gumby suits on. You know what happened when we got ten feet from the duck? The s.o.b squaked at us and ran away from us to another spot!! He seemed really p*ssed that we made him get up and move! lol


    my point is on something like that you are damned if you do...damned if you don't.

    Im sure they evaluated the situation, and didn't rush right out there and fish the pup out. Are we not suppose to practice "Risk vs. Gain"? No doubt a senior officer made a sized up and made the final call.
    Last edited by fieldseng2; 01-26-2010 at 12:37 PM.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Canuck Expat May be anywhere
    Posts
    2,906

    Default

    Hmmmm Try rescuing a yearling Moose that is not real impressed by your desire to get him out of the ice on the river while every damn news camera in town and beyond ison you.

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Upstate (Albany area), NY
    Posts
    422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Hmmmm Try rescuing a yearling Moose that is not real impressed by your desire to get him out of the ice on the river while every damn news camera in town and beyond ison you.
    Saw the same thing with a deer through the ice once. Wasn't pleasant, but the guys got a rope on it and dragged it to thicker ice. Fortunately, they were somehow able to get the rope off, and it made its way back into the woods. All the animal lovers were ecstatic. The deer hunters were just as happy, because that put more venison back in the woods for the next deer season!
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Somewhere
    Posts
    478

    Default

    Only time we have attempted the ice rescue of a wild animal was a deer a couple years ago.

    It had two fractured legs when we got to it. The police put it down as soon as we got to shore.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    1,937

    Default

    Dog coup? Sounds like a B horror movie.

  14. #14
    Forum Member BKDRAFT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Bay Area, California
    Posts
    1,146

    Default

    I have to say the LAFD did a great job and would have done the same if confronted with a similar situation.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,802

    Default

    they second to last paragraph gives the best reason for doing it. Some civilian would probably try and rescue the dog and end up dead or in need of rescue. Better for everyone just to rescue the dog so no one else tries. Besides it is good practice/training for the rescue crews.

  16. #16
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    I don't even look at it as training. It's not training if there is victim in danger. Its a rescue. If they were pulling a dummy with a life jacket out of the water, that would be training. As far as I'm concerned, that dog is a victim in need of rescue.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  17. #17
    Forum Member len1582's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    N.J.
    Posts
    1,392

    Default

    It was the right thing to do.

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    360

    Default

    Damn Germans!

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,951

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    I don't even look at it as training. It's not training if there is victim in danger. Its a rescue. If they were pulling a dummy with a life jacket out of the water, that would be training. As far as I'm concerned, that dog is a victim in need of rescue.
    We could certainly argue the semantics of this particular situation regarding whether is was or could/should be considered "training", a "rescue" or whatever.

    Regardless, it's pretty much a catch 22 situation for them. Some people consider animals to be equal to humans, value of life wise, in these situations, while other may see the animal as "expendable" and not worth the risk. As was already stated, what they did may have been the best option overall.

    Not doing something would likely create a lot of negative PR for LAFD plus the possibility that untrained civilians might have attempted a rescue on their own and maybe made the situation worse. So, if an attempt were to be made, then wouldn't it be best if the "professionals" did it? Besides, it was the right thing to do.

    Additionally, it's not like this type of "rescue" and in that type of location was unfamiliar to them. Maybe "training opportunity" isn't the best term to use since there was an actual live victim, but I don't really see a problem with utilizing the situation as a sort of "dress rehearsal". They need to "train" anyway for this, so why not take advantage of the opportunity for some "reality"?

    After all, we frequently set real fires in real buildings and put personnel into "harms way" in the name of training, right? Is this really that different in terms of "risk" to ourselves or the "use" of resources?
    Last edited by FireMedic049; 01-26-2010 at 06:42 PM.

  20. #20
    Some Guy
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    I don't know but I here laughing.
    Posts
    999

    Default

    Outstanding job by the LAFD.
    This space for rent

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Rescue Ends in Tragedy
    By Resc10 in forum Fire Wire
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-05-2012, 10:54 PM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 05-05-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-07-2005, 09:37 PM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 03-28-04
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-29-2004, 09:25 PM
  4. World Of Fire Report: 12-01-03
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-02-2003, 09:43 PM
  5. World Of Fire Report: 04-21-02
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-24-2002, 06:49 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts