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    Default Purchasing Prior to Award

    Just out of curiosity, has anyone made a purchase after application but prior to award and answered Question 6a as such?

    6a) Since submitting the application referenced herein, has your department had an urgent need to purchase any of the items requested in the application? If so, what was purchased, when was it purchased, and why?

    I've always been interested to know how much success there has been with proper justification.

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    I sent them an email asking if I can make a purchase to cover grant management expenses after the 10 Q's were submitted, but before the award is announced. No reply to that one as yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    Just out of curiosity, has anyone made a purchase after application but prior to award and answered Question 6a as such?

    6a) Since submitting the application referenced herein, has your department had an urgent need to purchase any of the items requested in the application? If so, what was purchased, when was it purchased, and why?

    I've always been interested to know how much success there has been with proper justification.
    Did it once, was successful in getting AFG to allow reimbursment to them for the purchase.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by jam24u View Post
    I sent them an email asking if I can make a purchase to cover grant management expenses after the 10 Q's were submitted, but before the award is announced. No reply to that one as yet.

    I got to ask - how much did you put in for grant management?

    I just never saw the cost high enough to worry about for a department like yours or mine.

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    But what was the justification? I'm curious if you open the can of worms, what can you do if they disallow it?

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    We may be in the same boat for the 2010 application. We are getting 8 new paid on call firefighters. They are going through our counties FFI & FFII course right now. They will be done this April. All of the PPE that they are using is about 10 years or older and is mismatched. My chief would like me to apply for new gear for them, but was wondering if he bought the gear after we applied, could we get reimbersed for the gear if we won an award?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    Just out of curiosity, has anyone made a purchase after application but prior to award and answered Question 6a as such?

    6a) Since submitting the application referenced herein, has your department had an urgent need to purchase any of the items requested in the application? If so, what was purchased, when was it purchased, and why?

    I've always been interested to know how much success there has been with proper justification.
    SLY, I answered that question like this: We were awarded a late round award in september of 2009 after being previously djed. We purchased all 10 sets of gear per the 2008 grant. We re applied for this grant before knowing we would be awarded late 2009. Since receiving the grant we have hired 6 additional firefighters that are in need of gear. If possible be would like to keep atleast 6 sets of the 10 sets requested in the 2009 grant.

    To date my only reply I have received is a request for me to accept a reduction to $200 per helmet.

    So I do not not anything other then its looking good I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    But what was the justification? I'm curious if you open the can of worms, what can you do if they disallow it?
    It was for radios and the county dispatch center's planned switch occured before they could recieve their award. The grant was based on that switch that was supposed to occur but the award took longer and they were totally without the ability to communicate. Pretty special set of circumstances.We also called AFG and gave them a heads up as to what was going on. The local bank gave them a short term no interest emergency loan to tide them over till award.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by rands1 View Post
    We may be in the same boat for the 2010 application. We are getting 8 new paid on call firefighters. They are going through our counties FFI & FFII course right now. They will be done this April. All of the PPE that they are using is about 10 years or older and is mismatched. My chief would like me to apply for new gear for them, but was wondering if he bought the gear after we applied, could we get reimbersed for the gear if we won an award?
    IMHO; no. The question is for those departments that after applying; something significant happened that they had to go out and purchase items on the grant. Ex. 10 sets of PPE were applied for, but 5 sets were destroyed after the application period forcing the department to purchase PPE to replace the damaged sets. This would be eligible for reimbursement.

    In your case, it sounds like the department has the funds for PPE, but doesn't want to spend it, but have the AFG fund it. At least that is how it comes across.

    We had the same situation a few years ago; applied for PPE and waited for the award.
    Last edited by onebugle; 01-26-2010 at 03:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rands1 View Post
    We may be in the same boat for the 2010 application. We are getting 8 new paid on call firefighters. They are going through our counties FFI & FFII course right now. They will be done this April. All of the PPE that they are using is about 10 years or older and is mismatched. My chief would like me to apply for new gear for them, but was wondering if he bought the gear after we applied, could we get reimbersed for the gear if we won an award?
    I gotta agree with onebugle here, that would be denied. Just because they are mismatched and 10 years old does not constitute an "emergency safety issue" which is kind of what that clause is for.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    I got to ask - how much did you put in for grant management?

    I just never saw the cost high enough to worry about for a department like yours or mine.
    We have never asked for grant management money. I am always afraid that asking for that could cost me the grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhl81791123 View Post
    We have never asked for grant management money. I am always afraid that asking for that could cost me the grant.
    Good words to live by for a creeer department but for a volunteer agency and in Jim's positon I can see why he does that. Also not bad when faced wih a large regional operation and a $1 mill award that is going to consume 20 or more hours a week of your time trying to launch a radioproject for 83 departents involved with a large interoprable communicatns grant.
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    From the guy managing a $445,000 regional SAFER project with no management funds included, I concur!


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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    IMHO; no. The question is for those departments that after applying; something significant happened that they had to go out and purchase items on the grant. Ex. 10 sets of PPE were applied for, but 5 sets were destroyed after the application period forcing the department to purchase PPE to replace the damaged sets. This would be eligible for reimbursement.

    In your case, it sounds like the department has the funds for PPE, but doesn't want to spend it, but have the AFG fund it. At least that is how it comes across.

    We had the same situation a few years ago; applied for PPE and waited for the award.
    The PPE that they are using has been taken out of service. They are only using it because they will not be going into an IDLH during class. They are not allowed to respond on our department until they get their FFI & FFII certification. We operate off of a fire millage which is up for renewal this year. If it doesn't pass the twp doesn't know what they are going to do. No funds=no fire department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rands1 View Post
    The PPE that they are using has been taken out of service. They are only using it because they will not be going into an IDLH during class. They are not allowed to respond on our department until they get their FFI & FFII certification. We operate off of a fire millage which is up for renewal this year. If it doesn't pass the twp doesn't know what they are going to do. No funds=no fire department.
    Be careful! If you buy it from within you own funding are you not destroying your own financial need by showing that you did in fact have the funding to make the purchase? Do not shoot yourself in the foot here! The department I worked with had to go get an emergency loan iorder to justify that financial need whcih ws in essence a 90 days same as cash deal with no interest being charged under exigent circumstances and done as a "good neighbor" and "in the community's best interest" type situation.

    Also no IDLH training in FF1 an FF2 classes, how are they doing that? Just curious as I thought that was part of the training. I have had departments not be able to get their recruits into the fire academy becasue the TOs were too old and they could not participate without current NFPA approved gear.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    I have had departments not be able to get their recruits into the fire academy becasue the TOs were too old and they could not participate without current NFPA approved gear.
    Kurt I like that... Great way to get your point across "If you want them FFI and FF2 trained I need new gear!

    If you dont mind I may use that, I have a department locally that is pretty much that despirate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RES81CUE View Post
    Kurt I like that... Great way to get your point across "If you want them FFI and FF2 trained I need new gear!

    If you dont mind I may use that, I have a department locally that is pretty much that despirate.
    Oh hell that is used consistently by me if I can make it applicable in justifying, especially with new recruits. Just make sure that IS the policy at the Fire Academy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    Oh hell that is used consistently by me if I can make it applicable in justifying, especially with new recruits. Just make sure that IS the policy at the Fire Academy.
    I am one of the local fire instructors... consider this new policy... actually we do inspect gear prior to any live burns... Thanks

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    They informed me that I am allowed to request up 3% of the total budget. I requested funds because our departments operating budget is in the $10,000 per year range. Buying cases of printer ink, folders, postage, freight, and sometimes fuel all for the grants proper management. (my secretary-treasurer kept giving me dirty llooks everytime I needed an additional check for costs) So I tried to include them this time.

    The assistant agreed with me, but this morning I got an email from my representative asking if I would accept the elimination of the 'additional funding' section, because I did not explain my reasons well enough.

    On my regional applicaton I did the same thing requesting grant management funds and the only reduction was my grantwriter fee. They haven't come back with any other reductions since then.

    Also I got contacted by those that were handling the updated 1199s asking if I had faxed it in yet. I was one of those that faxed it into the 202 area code. They requested I refax the updated 1199 to the new 303 area code this time. I did.

    I get the impression they are punching through with the applications with the intent to begin awards this Friday. Basically the last working day of the week to have awards in January.

    I'm going to see if they will accept the costs of attending a grants management-writing next application.

    I'll see Kurt Saturday to go over the first two paragraphs of this posting. These costs related to grants management add up to our poor budget.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    Just out of curiosity, has anyone made a purchase after application but prior to award and answered Question 6a as such?

    6a) Since submitting the application referenced herein, has your department had an urgent need to purchase any of the items requested in the application? If so, what was purchased, when was it purchased, and why?

    I've always been interested to know how much success there has been with proper justification.
    Yes,

    EMS service was not supplying proper PPE for members. State OSHA came in and cited/fined the town/service. Service made purchase to satisfy state OSHA. Town used rainy day funds to cover purchase.
    Justification was based upon program guidance:
    "Preaward Costs: ...may be eligible for reimbursement if the expenses were justified, unavoidable, consistent with the grantís scope of work, and specifically approved by DHS." and
    "For the FY 2009 AFG, the purchase of equipment that brings the department into compliance with nationally recommended standards (such as the NFPA) or statutory
    compliance (such as OSHA) will provide the highest benefit to the applicant and,
    therefore, will receive the highest consideration."

    Once award was announced my first contact was about being reimbursed.
    "There's no such thing as a bad day,
    Some are just better than others." JFR 1914-1997

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    Jim, What is the normal % for the grant writing fee? Just wondering. I think I read it somewhere but it donít come to me what it was. I never charged anything but wish I had. ďsometimeĒ Not looking for a pat on the back but at least the city would say thank you. They donít know how many hours you can put into this stuff. They are all there to get the picture in the paper when the new pumper comes in.

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    Never mind. Just read it. 3%. Good luck. I feel it is this Friday.

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