Wake em up or not?

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

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[Dickey]

If we arrive at an address or an intersection, etc. and find nothing, our first action is to ask the Dispatcher to contact the Caller and get more info and/or have them come out to show us what the problem is. If that doesn't work, we look the area over good, still nothing, we return......... Beating on Doors without a good reason like a strong Smoke odor, can cause a lot of grief for everyone.........

Exactly what we do.

[nameless]

So those FF can get those people out of their houses some different way? The objective happens to be the same. That is, gather information.

And yeah, I am going to answer to you about my success rate. Do me a favor, hold your breath.

if we can get the information we need without talking to people then we don't need to get them out of their house.

Its fairly obvious you have a one track mind and can only think of the word canvas in the narrow definition you use. I'm sure you'd argue with me if I told you it was also a textile product.

As for you success rate I don't really care, anyone who so often has to tell an internet forum how great they are, never is.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

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[Cap10Alden]

Loooooong time lurker, first time poster - I usually just read this forum, but this time I just had to weigh in. Originally, like most on this topic, I assumed that this incident was an investigation of "smoke in the area", and as somebody involved in dispatch earlier in my career, know that you can't second guess - you need to wait till you hear all the facts. Well, if I am to believe what I have read, the facts are in. The internal investigation has been COMPLETED, and there is no mention in it about improper dispatching. In fact, the dispatcher sent 7 units on the initial response. That would seem to indicate a response related to a reported fire. The fact that the initial CO never had his crew get out of the engine to investigate, makes the accountability lie on him. If you are not the officer, you can't simply get out of the rig and go freelancing. You wait for your CO to give an order/directive, and then you either follow him, or you go perform the task he assigned you. If the CO doesn't act, then the privates have the right to assume the officer has more information than they have, and that is what he is basing his decision to stay in the truck on. I know as a private, I would never have dared second guess my officer, and as a LT and Capt, that the men I am responsible for expect me to take the responsibility I have very seriously.

[EastKyFF]

if we can get the information we need without talking to people then we don't need to get them out of their house.

Oh, you have GOT to be kidding me with a statement like this. It is VERY clear that they did NOT get the information they needed, because THE WOMAN DIED.

[ScareCrow57]

Well we clearly know there was a big screw up on someones part or multiple peoples part. If dispatch did not give good info and the 7 responding units didn't get additional info something is wrong. The fact that the person hung up should be information that gets passed out no matter what. And I would think a hang up would also be enough to get Law enforcement involved as well.

Given that dispatch had the exact address one would think that information would be passed along. If not we have a dispatcher out of a job. While it is possible that his happened you have about a 0.0000000001% chance that the information was not passed along. If nothing else, the ranking officer should be gone. Junior officers and fire fighters had no authority in the decision and maybe shouldn't even be reprimanded. Although, junior officers should have questioned the practice. Sounds like some remedial training and learning FF1 all over again, this time getting it right.

[ScareCrow57]

Oh, you have GOT to be kidding me with a statement like this. It is VERY clear that they did NOT get the information they needed, because THE WOMAN DIED.

You will like this then

Probe Reveals Ga. FFs Never Checked House for Fire That Killed Woman

DeKalb County authorities have released the findings of an internal investigation, which found that four firefighters failed to fully investigate Ann Bartlett's 911 call that her house was on fire.

Bartlett, 74, was found dead five hours later in the garage of her burned-out home.

Her family told CBS Atlanta's Renee Starzyk that they want an apology from firefighters. Read the story here.

CBS Atlanta obtained a copy of Bartlett's 911 call. After listening to it, News Director Steve Schwaid said he feels it is not necessary for our viewers to hear the last woman's final moments. The family also requested that CBS Atlanta not play it, and the station is honoring their request.

Bartlett's family members said Bartlett used an oxygen concentrator to help her breathe. According to DeKalb County records, she called 911 at about 1 a.m. on Sunday and told the dispatcher she had accidentally set her house on fire with the "thing for my nose." She gave her address and the line went dead.

Records show the dispatcher immediately sent seven emergency vehicles to the home. When the first three trucks arrived, firefighters saw no signs of a fire and left. An internal investigation found that against department protocol, none of the firefighters established command of the incident, and not a single firefighter as much as walked up the driveway to investigate.

Only two firefighters even got out of their vehicles, and that was to spot the truck as it backed up to leave.

Five hours later, when neighbors saw the flames, it was too late. Four firefighters are now on paid administrative leave: Sell Caldwell, Tony Motes, William Greene and Lesley Clark.

CBS Atlanta tried to question both DeKalb County's Fire Chief David Foster and the county's public safety director William Z. Miller about the case. Neither would agree to an interview. They referred our questions to county spokeswoman Sheila Edwards.

CBS Atlanta's Rebekka Schramm asked Edwards, "How can we trust firefighters who don't even investigate a fire?"

Edwards answered, "Well, I understand your concern, Rebekka, but again, that's why the CEO demanded that the public safety director and the fire chief do a investigation immediately."

Schramm said, "Our question is whether these guys should face criminal charges?"

"I'm not in a position where I can ascertain that situation," said Edwards.

DeKalb County District Attorney Gwen Keyes Flemming issued a statement saying that county police investigators are looking into whether a crime was committed. She said she will review their findings and then determine how to proceed.

CBS Atlanta's Michelle Marsh asked State Fire Commissioner John Oxendine tough questions about the state's protocol for firefighters responding to a fire call.

Oxendine said, "At the bare minimum they would have to do a thorough perimeter check."

Oxendine said if a firefighter didn't leave his fire truck, that would be considered a violation of the training standards.

He also plans to launch an inquiry into the case to ensure DeKalb firefighters are being properly trained.

A spokesperson for DeKalb County said proper training is not the issue. She said some of the firefighters involved were retrained as recently as last month.

Indefensible.....

[ProbyEMT87]

Nameless that was the point for me adding the word fairly in my comment about reprimands. I would hope that the investigation would look at all the aspects from the point the call was recieved until the units cleared up. I too am wondering what the dispatch and additional information given was. I find it hard to beleive that if all of this was relayed to the responding units that no action was taken.

Proby- In my city the officer has an MDC that he can look at all the information and comments the dispatcher types in on the CAD. Typically it will have the call type, address, responding unit, and the comments the dispatcher types in, and it is linked to the GIS mapping system. We even use this to mark enroute, in-service, onscene etc. this is to limit radio traffic and not grid lock the radio. whilie enroute to the call the dispatcher will type in updates for addditional information. such as starting to get multiple calls, pd on scene advising ..., report of person trapped in apartment X. Usually the officer will relay this to the rest of the guys. They will also start to create a list of reported trapped people in apartments, start the size up process etc.

^ ^ ^ That's just cool lol.

I just can't see why they wouldn't have got out and simply knocked on the door atleast.... if dispatch sent 7 emergency vehicles... I just don't get it....

[ScareCrow57]

^ ^ ^ That's just cool lol.

I just can't see why they wouldn't have got out and simply knocked on the door atleast.... if dispatch sent 7 emergency vehicles... I just don't get it....

I do. It's 1 AM and they were in a hurry to get back to the station and back to sleep.

Like a said earlier, dereliction of duty.

And think about this. Mayor say we don't need more stations and more personal, we just need to get the ones we have to do their jobs. These boys have created a real problem for themselves. I imagine it won't be long before we see a wrongful death law suit.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

I do. It's 1 AM and they were in a hurry to get back to the station and back to sleep.

Like a said earlier, dereliction of duty.

And think about this. Mayor say we don't need more stations and more personal, we just need to get the ones we have to do their jobs. These boys have created a real problem for themselves. I imagine it won't be long before we see a wrongful death law suit.

Blah, blah blah blah, blah blah. Your comments are nothing more than



on the sidewalk.

[ProbyEMT87]

Blah, blah blah blah, blah blah. Your comments are nothing more than



on the sidewalk.

now that's funny!!

[ProbyEMT87]

I do. It's 1 AM and they were in a hurry to get back to the station and back to sleep.

Like a said earlier, dereliction of duty.

And think about this. Mayor say we don't need more stations and more personal, we just need to get the ones we have to do their jobs. These boys have created a real problem for themselves. I imagine it won't be long before we see a wrongful death law suit.

Are you even in the emergency services?

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Post deleted.

[Whocares]

Are you even in the emergency services?

Are you? After reading this story, your comment is...

Alls I can say is WOW, and I hope 4 firefighters or more are out of jobs by next month....

Nice attitude. Without knowing all the details, your first reaction is you hope firefighters get fired. What about a Chief? Was one dispached? What was he told? What about the company officers? What were they told? How - exactly - did this tragedy occur. What were the mistakes made by what part of the chain and in what order did they occur? I'm sure you know all the details and fully understand them for you HOPE firefighters get fired. I personally hope they find out what went wrong and correct it so that this doesn't happen in the future. I also HOPE you don't express your attitude around the guys who have to work with you. And lastly, I HOPE you never make a mistake or get caught in a bad situation with those guys. They may be less than supportive, knowing your attitude.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Post deleted.

[FHJ718]

After reading the "official" report it certainly looks like some protocols were not followed, but I would caution everyone from condemning the members before knowing the whole story. Let them have their say then make your judgement. If they did receive the address and the info the report says and then chose not to at least check it then so be it.
Be careful when you read "official" reports, they're not always accurate or error free. If any of you took the time to read the NIOSH Report on the Tai-Ho fire in Boston I can assure you there are several "facts" that are inaccurate and misleading.

[GTRider245]

Let's just remember one thing here; no one on these forums is from DeKalb as far as I know. No one here knows how DeKalb is and how they operate. They are without a doubt one of the largest and busiest departments in the state. They deal with dozens of these calls every day and night, with a majority being false alarms or malacious. Would doing a walkaround at 1am have revealed anything they couldnt see from the street? Maybe, maybe not.

That being said, am I defending what they did or didnt do? Of course not. Sounds like from the story they were in the wrong. But we have established that. So why dont some of you self rightoueous a-s-s holes stop LOOKING for things to throw brothers under the bus for and move on with your pathetic lives. God knows you arent perfect. One of the individuals who jumped to the conclusion of firing these guys hasnt even seen his first structure fire. What a joke.

[CaptOldTimer]

While this is a sad and sore subject, I am not going to blast the department for this incident as some have.


I's similar to the thread that a fire truck hit another fire truck or the one thread of a fire truck hitting a civilian vehicle. Everyone jumped in the departments hind parts and threw blame all around.


WE WAS NOT THERE! We do not have access to all the facts! We have not heard the radio tapes on this call!


Anyone who would critize another fire department and its members before you have the complete facts, is simple as well as shallow in my mind.


There are someone who posted a news story form the ACJ and someone may have posted something about the department's investigation. Is this all of the reports? I think not.


As some have eluded, many department members will get out of the apparatus, do a walk around and check the building in which they responded to. RFD21, I think said in one of his post, that the apparatus has MDT's or MDC's and they get all the information in which the 9-1-1 call taker and radio operator had inserted as "note and or addendums". V


I know that some posters are new to the fire service and those should hold their uneducated opinions before blasting someone or something that have very little knowledge about. Likewise there are some so called experts who are in here, not to name them, but you know who you are, that has more opinions than one would think anybody would have in 100 years! Lets don't hang anyone out to dry or fire anyone. Discipline and a reprimand may be all is needed in this case. Re-training of the call takers, communications operators, and company members and the procedures and directives of the department is a must.


I, as others go back many years. I have served my time in hell and have seen a lot of fatal fires as well as structures lost. It is no fun to have investigators asking questions and you thinking what if and I wish we could have arrived before the call was made for this incident.


Let's be fair to that department and let the department officials sort things out and when they do publish the final version of their finding, read it, heed it and do not let it happen to you or your department

[MarcusKspn]

WE WAS NOT THERE!

We were not there.

Good grammar is important.