FDNY's Next Generation Tower Ladder

[WestTac1]

PLEASE DELETE THIS THREAD AT THIS TIME

Seth

[FFWALT]

Alright Seth, I'll bite. Why is this a "next generation tower ladder"? More importantly, what are the specs on it? Who built it, what's the capabilities, etc?

[WD6956]

Alright Seth, I'll bite. Why is this a "next generation tower ladder"? More importantly, what are the specs on it? Who built it, what's the capabilities, etc?

Agreed. Based on that picture, i see nothing different? It does not even look like a new truck?

[ATFDFF]

Agreed. Based on that picture, i see nothing different? It does not even look like a new truck?

It is for sure new. It's the new cab style, like on their new engines. Instead of having the dog house in the back, it's up front so there is a crew-type area for the firefighters. Also, it has the raised roof, new lighting configuration, and changes in the compartment dimentions.

[FireMedic049]

I would have to agree. It's clearly a "new" truck.

The cab is a Maurader II, split-tilt cab with a raised roof. Essentially the same cab as the new engines. Non of the current tower ladders have Maurader II cabs, raised roofs or split-tilt.

The "next generation" tag probably refers to the new cab configuration I mentioned above and that the ladder is maybe an Aerialscope II model.

[WoodbridgeFFII]

Seagrave fire apparatus has a 75' Scope for sale as a Demo/Stock unit, it was built for the F.D.N.Y. and they refused to accept the truck !Maybe this is the second unit built for New York City ?

[nameless]

It is for sure new. It's the new cab style, like on their new engines. Instead of having the dog house in the back, it's up front so there is a crew-type area for the firefighters. Also, it has the raised roof, new lighting configuration, and changes in the compartment dimentions.

I don't want to sound like a jerk. But the location of the doghouse, the raised roof, and the new lights aren't ground breaking or unique. Sure, it might be new for FDNY, but it sounds just like many other trucks used in many other cities. Is there anything new or unique to the truck?

[ATFDFF]

I don't want to sound like a jerk. But the location of the doghouse, the raised roof, and the new lights aren't ground breaking or unique. Sure, it might be new for FDNY, but it sounds just like many other trucks used in many other cities. Is there anything new or unique to the truck?

All im saying is that it's new to FDNY, making it a new generation of truck to them.

[meteoman]

FDNY had split tilt Seagrave apparatus delivered back in the mid 90's for the towers, sticks and engines. The towers had the single front jacks.

[FFFRED]

The scrub area on these must be signifigantly deminished from what we had with the old rigs.

The cab has gone from open jump seats to a cab, to this raised roof...if the LCC can't get the angle away from the building on a tight block, this will along with that raised box midway back for storage will signifigantly inhibit its ability to hit areas past the cab and low areas at an angle away to the side.

We'll see how it works out.

FTM-PTB

[RFDACM02]

PLEASE DELETE THIS THREAD AT THIS TIME

Seth

OK, want to clue us in? Why would this thread be removed?

[RFDACM02]

The scrub area on these must be signifigantly deminished from what we had with the old rigs.

I was surprised to see an FDNY raised roof MM for just that reason. Unless you're out West with large urban planned streets I can't see putting such a restriction on the aerial, and for what? This maybe one of the few things I give some credit to Sutphen on, at least their raised roofs are angle cut to reduce some of this loss.

[RFDACM02]

OK after some digging I found some more of the same shop pics on another site. It seems that not only is the cab a raised roof, but on the rear of it, there's a spot light sticking up on each side and a diamondplate box in the middle that raises further impedes any over the cab ops. An odd development for FDNY whose apparatus normally seem to be all about tactical functionality. Maybe they determined this was not a significant factor in NYC?

[htfdc102]

OK after some digging I found some more of the same shop pics on another site. It seems that not only is the cab a raised roof, but on the rear of it, there's a spot light sticking up on each side and a diamondplate box in the middle that raises further impedes any over the cab ops. An odd development for FDNY whose apparatus normally seem to be all about tactical functionality. Maybe they determined this was not a significant factor in NYC?

Over the cab ops are very limited no matter what roof, lights or boxes you have due to the cab avoidance safety system that stops rotation of the turntable at a certain distance from the cab. You have to get the cab out of the way during placement...bottom line.

[RFDACM02]

Over the cab ops are very limited no matter what roof, lights or boxes you have due to the cab avoidance safety system that stops rotation of the turntable at a certain distance from the cab. You have to get the cab out of the way during placement...bottom line.

Cab avoidance system? What's that! Kidding, we have the damn thing on our tower and it will be shut off on the next dealer service trip.

Not all towers are created equal. While some avoidance systems allow you to get close, most are set on distant limits to ensure the builder won't be blamed for a operator error. I'm willing to bet FDNY doesn't have a shut-down/stoppage avoidance system? Though I'm not certain of that.

Proper positioning is key, as noted, but as I said, not all MM's are created equal. We found a significant discrepancy between builders in the over the cab angles. And yes, the lower you can get over the cab, the more total scrub area you have. So, what happens when you can't turn the cab far enough? You hope you can operate as low over the cab as you can to get those last few windows...

[donethat]

Cab avoidance system? And yes, the lower you can get over the cab, the more total scrub area you have. So, what happens when you can't turn the cab far enough? You hope you can operate as low over the cab as you can to get those last few windows...

It must not worry many rear mount aerial buyers. Many I have seen have raised cab roofs further hurting operating envelop off the front.

[nameless]

It must not worry many rear mount aerial buyers. Many I have seen have raised cab roofs further hurting operating envelop off the front.

Usually with a rear mount, the aerial is at or near the level of a flat roof cab so it can be operated over the cab at parallel or near parallel to the ground. The midmounts generally have the aerial mounted lower so the top rail of the aerial is at the same level or slightly higher than the cab roof, while the bottom rail/pivot point is well below the roof line of the cab. The raised roof will hurt a rear mount aerial in working over the cab, but not to the same degree. Also since a mid mount's turn table is closer to the cab it'll have to be at a steeper angle to clear the cab than a rear mount.


The midmount you posted probably can't go below 50 degrees off the front due to that massive cab. That cab probably took up 100+ degrees off the useful (in most situations) rotation of the aerial.

[FFFRED]

Over the cab ops are very limited no matter what roof, lights or boxes you have due to the cab avoidance safety system that stops rotation of the turntable at a certain distance from the cab. You have to get the cab out of the way during placement...bottom line.

Some of you are forgetting we aren't talking about Pigsnuckle, AR. This is NYC...and sometimes circumstances make it difficult to do what you are suggesting which is why we formerly desired rigs that were very forgiving with less than ideal placement.

FTM-PTB

PS-Unless it comes on the new rigs the TLs we have don't have this "avoidance" system you are talking about. I've seen my share of cabs dented and crushed. I know the truckies in my house are a bit skeptical of the new arangement....we shall see.

[htfdc102]

Cab avoidance system? What's that! Kidding, we have the damn thing on our tower and it will be shut off on the next dealer service trip.

So, what happens when you can't turn the cab far enough? You hope you can operate as low over the cab as you can to get those last few windows...

Don't know many dealers that would do that unless you sign off and then if you do problems arise warranty issues, liabilty...not worth it... if you can't get to the last couple windows because of the cab then do it the old fashion way...ground ladders, all depts have them and there are still a few that know how to use them. Remeber you key word in the sentence above...LOW that means probably 2nd floor if your cab would be getting in the way....correct?

[FFFRED]

It must not worry many rear mount aerial buyers. Many I have seen have raised cab roofs further hurting operating envelop off the front.

It can easily be seen by going to any fire appratus show or dealer that most Departments aren't all that concerned with tactical proficency when desgining their rigs.

Double parked cars, tight blocks...other obstacles...etc. all are problems in NYC that you don't see on the standard street in the rest of the USA. What we have for main aterial Avenues placed occasionaly through the grid with massive appartment buildings lining all sides, People in Sunny Acres, CA have as the standard width street in their subdivision with 1 and two story houses all with more than sufficent off street parking for buildings 3 times their current size and occupancy!

They've made these rigs wider (2inches) which to you seems like nothing...but often enough it can be a game of inches in getting the jacks down (which is why the plates piviot to allow it to pass a car and then go flat when near the ground)

FTM-PTB