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  1. #1
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    Default No Middle Class Tax Hike! (wink wink)

    Here you go. BTW, if you voted for Pres. Obama, you pretty much have helped to cause the problems. It is a little silly for you to complain about this stuff. You wanted change? You got it!

    Backdoor taxes to hit middle class
    By Terri Cullen Terri Cullen
    Mon Feb 1, 4:09 pm ET

    NEW YORK (Reuters.com) --The Obama administration's plan to cut more than $1 trillion from the deficit over the next decade relies heavily on so-called backdoor tax increases that will result in a bigger tax bill for middle-class families.

    In the 2010 budget tabled by President Barack Obama on Monday, the White House wants to let billions of dollars in tax breaks expire by the end of the year -- effectively a tax hike by stealth.

    While the administration is focusing its proposal on eliminating tax breaks for individuals who earn $250,000 a year or more, middle-class families will face a slew of these backdoor increases.

    The targeted tax provisions were enacted under the Bush administration's Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001. Among other things, the law lowered individual tax rates, slashed taxes on capital gains and dividends, and steadily scaled back the estate tax to zero in 2010.

    If the provisions are allowed to expire on December 31, the top-tier personal income tax rate will rise to 39.6 percent from 35 percent. But lower-income families will pay more as well: the 25 percent tax bracket will revert back to 28 percent; the 28 percent bracket will increase to 31 percent; and the 33 percent bracket will increase to 36 percent. The special 10 percent bracket is eliminated.

    Investors will pay more on their earnings next year as well, with the tax on dividends jumping to 39.6 percent from 15 percent and the capital-gains tax increasing to 20 percent from 15 percent. The estate tax is eliminated this year, but it will return in 2011 -- though there has been talk about reinstating the death tax sooner.

    Millions of middle-class households already may be facing higher taxes in 2010 because Congress has failed to extend tax breaks that expired on January 1, most notably a "patch" that limited the impact of the alternative minimum tax. The AMT, initially designed to prevent the very rich from avoiding income taxes, was never indexed for inflation. Now the tax is affecting millions of middle-income households, but lawmakers have been reluctant to repeal it because it has become a key source of revenue.

    Without annual legislation to renew the patch this year, the AMT could affect an estimated 25 million taxpayers with incomes as low as $33,750 (or $45,000 for joint filers). Even if the patch is extended to last year's levels, the tax will hit American families that can hardly be considered wealthy -- the AMT exemption for 2009 was $46,700 for singles and $70,950 for married couples filing jointly.

    Middle-class families also will find fewer tax breaks available to them in 2010 if other popular tax provisions are allowed to expire. Among them:

    * Taxpayers who itemize will lose the option to deduct state sales-tax payments instead of state and local income taxes;

    * The $250 teacher tax credit for classroom supplies;

    * The tax deduction for up to $4,000 of college tuition and expenses;

    * Individuals who don't itemize will no longer be able to increase their standard deduction by up to $1,000 for property taxes paid;

    * The first $2,400 of unemployment benefits are taxable, in 2009 that amount was tax-free.
    Last edited by GeorgeWendtCFI; 02-02-2010 at 12:59 PM.
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  2. #2
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    I really hope nobody is surprised by this......
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    So if you voted for Bush, you have no right to complain about anything he did during his 8 years? You have to agree with every single thing?
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    So if you voted for Bush, you have no right to complain about anything he did during his 8 years? You have to agree with every single thing?
    You most certainly don't have to agree. I don't.

    But of course, the issues with Pres. Obama blatantly lying to the American public are a little different than those with Pres. Bush.

    But I see your point. I am going to edit my previous post to tone down the rhetoric.
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    Well, well, well. Tell me again how the media isn't running interference for Pres. Obama?

    This story was posted a few minutes after Reuters pulled the story above.

    Advisory: Backdoor taxes to hit middle class
    Mon Feb 1, 8:07 pm ET

    The story Backdoor taxes to hit middle class has been withdrawn. A replacement story will run later in the week.
    This is very, very scary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    So if you voted for Bush, you have no right to complain about anything he did during his 8 years? You have to agree with every single thing?
    Glad to see you disagree with this budget proposal. I wish our Friend SC were here so he could realize the president submits a proposal but the congress approves of the spending. It is the congress who has given us out of control government growth, out of control deficits, and out of control taxes. Obama is no where near conservative enough in this budget. Spending is up nearly 8% (went form 3.5 to 3.8 Trillion dollars). This is the starting point, we all know the final product will be higher.

    The absolutely most ridiculous thing I have seen is the raising of the capital gains taxes. Here you are trying to get people to invest and get money moving and create jobs and you are taking that money away from them. I also think it is silly to throw more money at education.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
    We keep throwing more and more money at the education system and they keep getting worse. Education doesn't need money, it needs teachers that can teach and the power to enforce it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    You most certainly don't have to agree. I don't.

    But of course, the issues with Pres. Obama blatantly lying to the American public are a little different than those with Pres. Bush.

    But I see your point. I am going to edit my previous post to tone down the rhetoric.
    I'm sure that there are lots of people who voted for him that will find a way to defend this. That's the nature of partisan politics.

    I had my reasons for voting for him. I had my reasons to vote for Bush in '00 & '04. There are people who will only vote for a party, and don't care about the candidate.

    I know where you were coming from with your original post. I just hope that there are some who can look past the "I voted for President X, so he must be perfect" mindset and realize that even if you agree with some stuff, you don't have to agree with all.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Well, well, well. Tell me again how the media isn't running interference for Pres. Obama?

    This story was posted a few minutes after Reuters pulled the story above.



    This is very, very scary.
    It could become worse based on what they put up to replace it...

    Freedom of press should include both the Freedom from Government interference, as well as freedom from interference based on the ideological viewpoint of the owners.

    Reporters should be able to report as they see fit.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    A February 1 Reuters article - subsequently withdrawn by the wire service -- claimed that the Obama administration's budget plan includes "backdoor tax increases that will result in a bigger tax bill for middle-class families," citing increases to marginal federal income tax rates that would go into effect if the Bush tax cuts were allowed to expire, and an increase in middle class families that would be subject to the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) without the renewal of a patch to limit its impact. In fact, Obama's 2011 budget calls for the Bush tax cuts to be extended for individuals making $200,000 or less and couples making $250,000 and for the AMT patch to be extended at its 2009 parameters through 2020.

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    According to a Reuters rep, the was withdrawn "due to significant errors of fact."

    "The story was wrong on multiple points and should not have gone out," she emailed us. A formal withdrawal will issued will address specific points that were incorrect later today.

  11. #11
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Go to school, get educated, and thereby increase your annual income. Then get axed at a higher rate, be called "rich" and demeaned by others for doing so. It's the mantra of the libs.

    My first year of practice in medicine I made too much money (being married) to be able to contribute money to a Roth IRA. I made too much money to claim any of the $7,000 in student loan interest that I paid, nevermind the principal amount that I paid down.

    I have no problems with taxation, it is necessary, but you are being disingenuous when you - as a politician - campaign against "the rich" and say that you will allow the Bush tax cuts to expire. People forget that those tax cuts were across the board and affected almost every "class" of "working families."

    No one on either side of the political aisle can act surprised by this - Mr. Obama told us this was his plan back in 2008.

    And his budget increases spending, increases taxation, increases the deficit, and is done in the middle of a major recession......oh wait, that's right. The White House and Democrats believe the recession is over. I'll remember that tomorrow when one of my patients tells me that they were just laid off.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Go to school, get educated, and thereby increase your annual income. Then get axed at a higher rate, be called "rich" and demeaned by others for doing so. It's the mantra of the libs.

    My first year of practice in medicine I made too much money (being married) to be able to contribute money to a Roth IRA. I made too much money to claim any of the $7,000 in student loan interest that I paid, nevermind the principal amount that I paid down.

    I have no problems with taxation, it is necessary, but you are being disingenuous when you - as a politician - campaign against "the rich" and say that you will allow the Bush tax cuts to expire. People forget that those tax cuts were across the board and affected almost every "class" of "working families."

    No one on either side of the political aisle can act surprised by this - Mr. Obama told us this was his plan back in 2008.

    And his budget increases spending, increases taxation, increases the deficit, and is done in the middle of a major recession......oh wait, that's right. The White House and Democrats believe the recession is over. I'll remember that tomorrow when one of my patients tells me that they were just laid off.

    BINGO!!!!!

    In this country people are punished for making more money. At the same time they are rewarded for being poor and not trying. Never mind these same people are rewarded for having more children.

    I did the same thing, went to school on the promise of a better job and more income. In the end I got a better job, but I am no further ahead financially. Our government can't even run a fair, ethical tax system. There should be a single tax rate 20% for all. There should be no deductions. No social engineering efforts, nothing. Eliminate marriage form the tax code. You work, you make money, you pay taxes on the money you earn. Yo have 6 kids, good for you, no tax breaks though. You play you pay. In fact, if you want to combat Global Warming eliminate child credits. This will discourage people from having more children than they can care for thus reducing the population and finally reducing the consumption of fossil fuels.....

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    In this country people are punished for making more money. At the same time they are rewarded for being poor and not trying. Never mind these same people are rewarded for having more children.
    True,

    I hear that the single person without children making $5000 a month and bringing home $3000 has it so much harder than the married welfare couple with 2 kids that makes only $1000 a month but brings home $1500 after getting welfare .
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    True,

    I hear that the single person without children making $5000 a month and bringing home $3000 has it so much harder than the married welfare couple with 2 kids that makes only $1000 a month but brings home $1500 after getting welfare .
    Yes, but how about the single guy bringing home $2000 on a $3000 a month salary (36,000/year). Compare that to the family of four bringing home $2,500 a month on that same salary. And at the end of the year the family of four will get the EIC and end up with more than they paid. And oh yea, because of the go or no-go welfare system, they will get HEAP benefits, possibly food stamps and reduced cost insurance thorough one of the 23 programs in existence.

    And you want something really stupid. $36K around here is the equivalent of $72K in NYC. Yet those poor people in NYC will pay higher taxes or the same standard of living. The real problem is they are making it easier and easier to get these benefits. Now you no longer have to prove your resources. You can state you don't have any money in the bank and they have to take you word for it.

    There is a family around here with three kids. All three have been diagnosed with ADD. All three get SSI checks. The parents, also get full blown Public Assistance, because the SSI income doesn't count as income. $800 times three kids is $2,400 a month. Plus free heat, free food, free housing, and spending money. These people are doing much better than 80% of the working people in the community. My friend gets the HEAP, but admits she really doesn't need it. But she qualifies and she is taking her piece of the pie. I'm sure she isn't the only one either.

    However, the single person, for whatever reason, chose not to have children. They chose not to take on the burden. If you want the kids then you should have to take on the responsibility of raising them.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 02-03-2010 at 07:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    If you want the kids then you should have to take on the responsibility of raising them.
    Yup, that $1000 tax credit has certainly removed the responsibility to raise my daughter. Thanks Uncle Sam.

  16. #16
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    I read this article this morning. Quite applicable to the discussion we are in in this thread.

    http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...ore-taxes.aspx

    Get ready to pay more taxes
    With funding cuts to national defense and major entitlements politically unpalatable, the middle class inevitably will be asked to do more to help close the budget gap.

    [Related content: taxes, budgeting, Medicare, spending, income tax]
    By U.S. News & World Report
    If you're hoping that tax hikes on the rich will solve America's debt crisis, you're overestimating the power of the wealthy.

    President Barack Obama's budget proposal would raise taxes on upper-income earners by $969 billion over the next 10 years, yet the federal debt would continue to explode. To boost government revenues further, he'd raise an additional $122 billion from multinationals, $90 billion from banks, $37 billion from oil companies and $24 billion from hedge funds and private-equity companies.

    All told, that's more than $1.2 trillion. And it would barely make a dent. We'd still have huge deficits, and the national debt would keep growing.

    Compare your credit
    Taxing the rich will be one of the hot political stories this year. It will also divert attention from a much bigger story: Sooner or later, almost everybody in America is going to pay more in taxes.

    One reason is that spending on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- which accounts for 56% of all federal outflows -- continues to skyrocket, and cutting those programs, just as baby boomers begin to retire, would be politically perilous.

    Few politicians in Washington want to cut defense, which leaves little else on the chopping block.

    At least 35 states face their own budget shortfalls this year, with revenue in many states coming in below projections that were weak to start with, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. When federal stimulus spending winds down in 2011, many states anticipate a "cliff effect," in which their revenues will plunge.

    That means new revenue will have to come from somewhere -- and there aren't enough rich people to provide all the funds.

    "It's inevitable that the government will have to find a way to have a truly middle-income tax increase," says Clint Stretch of consulting firm Deloitte Tax. "The trick is: how?"

    Politicians, of course, don't want to admit that most of their constituents face a stinging tax hike. And until there's no other choice, they'll try to raise funds without having to mouth the "T" word. As federal, state and local governments get desperate, here are some of the mechanisms elected officials will try to use to raise funds without getting run out of office:

    Expansion of existing taxes. Raising income tax rates is so unpopular that most politicians consider it a last resort. Raising state and local sales taxes is a bit more tolerable, and it's even better if you're simply expanding a tax that already exists.

    "In many states, the first thing they'll do is squeeze more out of the taxes they've got," says Alex Meleney of Deloitte Tax. Some states, for example, could expand sales taxes to things not already covered, such as restaurant meals, salons, business services, Internet connections and phone or cable TV service.

    It also makes sense to crack down on those evading existing taxes, by increasing the fines for late payments and underpayments and conducting more inspections to catch merchants and others who may be skirting their obligations.

    "Avoidable" taxes. A new levy is more palatable when politicians can make the case that you don't have to pay it if you choose not to. Consumers might be able to offset new gasoline taxes, for instance, by driving less or buying a more efficient car.

    Junk food tax proposal
    Some states are mulling new energy or carbon taxes, with part of the pitch being that you can make up the difference by using less energy.

    Then there are the classic "sin taxes" on cigarettes and booze, which are only for people with unhealthy habits -- and have already gone up in more than a dozen states, according to the NCSL. One new "sin" that could end up taxed: junk food.

    Online taxes. This is controversial, because it could force online merchants to figure out tax rates for thousands of localities. But New York and a few other states are trying to impose regular sales taxes on Internet purchases, to replace revenue lost when those transactions don't take place in physical stores.

    Compare your credit
    A legal challenge to the so-called Amazon tax is pending in a New York court, and if the government wins, more states are sure to follow up with their own Internet taxes.

    Health care taxes. You'd think health care was already expensive enough, but at least nine states have upped taxes on hospitals and other providers over the past year, according to NCSL. Of course, many of those added costs will be passed on to insurers, businesses and, ultimately, consumers.

    Less federal aid to states. The federal government gives states nearly $500 billion a year in the form of Medicaid payments, highway funds, housing aid, education grants and other stipends. One way for Washington to rein in spending is to reduce aid to states, which could force states to cut their own spending even more -- or, more likely, come up with new taxes to pay for it.

    Temporary surtaxes. Several states have been covering budget shortfalls with "temporary" increases in income or property taxes or with other surtaxes that will supposedly expire at some point. If the economy comes roaring back, sure, legislators may rescind those tax hikes. But more often than not, they stick.

    Business tax hikes. Unemployment-insurance funds, which are financed primarily through a tax on businesses, are running low in many states, for obvious reasons.

    More on the federal debt
    The federal government has been kicking in money for extensions, but that can't continue much longer. If the unemployment rate remains high -- as even the White House now predicts -- states will have to increase taxes on businesses to replenish their UI accounts. And the extra burden will flow through to workers in the form of lower wages.

    Businesses are also ripe targets for other taxes that governments don't want to impose directly on consumers.

    A value-added tax. Some tax experts view this as the holy grail of revenue raisers and think it's inevitable that federal or state-level VATs -- or both -- will become common.

    A VAT is a tax imposed at various steps in the production of a good -- every time "value" is added. Since there's no extra fee at the point of sale, consumers don't notice the way they would if the sales tax increased.

    But prices would go up, reflecting the added costs.

    VATs have been used to plug big budget shortfalls in Europe, Canada and Japan, where they were intensely unpopular at first.

    But VATs also have some appealing benefits. Since they tax consumption, not income, they create incentives to earn and save more, which benefits the economy in the long term.

    They can be applied to select goods, with essentials like food exempt. And VATs can raise a lot of money in one fell swoop, which federal and state governments will need to do before long.

    Until then, be glad you're not rich.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Our politicians need to stop giving everyone tax breaks.

    Just in 2009 there were 2 new ones. One refunds all sales taxes paid on purchasing a new vehicle. How many hundreds of millions does that cost?

    The other is a tax credit for new home buyers. Everyone that bought a new house in 2009 that is a first-time home buyer gets $8,000. That is several billion dollars as of November - and they extended it into April of 2010.

    The government needs to stop giving away money like this. It costs huge amounts of a decreasing resource.

    Here in Massachusetts, our half-witted Governor is proposing increased spending in the midst of our recession. Not only that, but there is already a $3 billion structural deficit in our state budget. He is proposing new taxes - after increasing sales tax by 25% last year.

    Governments NEVER cut spending - they only come up with new ways to get more money. Blows my mind that the citizenry just keep lapping this up.

    At least even the liberals here in Massachusetts are starting to do double takes. In another 5 years they may actually be awake enough to revolt against it.

    Our goverment needs to start thinking about saving money. Quit paying billions in subsidies for soybeans, corn, grain, etc. Stop paying farmers to grow some crops, and not others. Stop bailing out companies. Make certain agencies fund themselves - like the FAA. The FAA should make all flying customers, plane owners, and airlines fund the agency - not take money from the general public.

    And eventually the multi-billion dollars we throw away in pork barrel pet projects is going to have to stop. If my town wants to build a park, they should pay for it, not get money from an earmark placed by John Olver (my Democratic U. S. Rep.)

    And while I know that it is not popular, programs like SAFER and FIRE Act, and COPS should be cut. Funding hoses, fire trucks, and staffing is a local responsibility - not for someone in California or New York to pay for me in Massachusetts.

    Those in power need to pay attention, because on top of our deficit spending, and booming debt - we have several more trillion in unfunded liabilities and entitlements.

    This nation is in for a world of financial hurt in the next decade.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    The problem is these dopes actually think that these tax credits make a difference. They are so stupid that they think private industry will hire people because they get a tax break. Unlike Government, private industry hires people when there is work to do. That $5,000 will do nothing but give the companies a place to make more money. You are not going to spend $40,000 to hire a new employee to save $5,000.

    I am LMAO at another incentive. I have been planning the installation of a wood boiler for heating my house. Been saving for about 3 years now. I can get a $1,500 tax break (that is right off the tax bill) for installing one of these cost saving beauties. The incentive did not influence me one bit, well maybe a tad because I will do it for sure this year. I am planning to put it in a detached 24 x 28 garage. My original plan was to build the garage first and have a place for the boiler. Now I will pour the slab and put the boiler on it. The garage will have to wait another year. I'll simply put up a temporary shed over the boiler.

    Wouldn't it be nice if our leaders would live within their means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Our politicians need to stop giving everyone tax breaks.

    Just in 2009 there were 2 new ones. One refunds all sales taxes paid on purchasing a new vehicle. How many hundreds of millions does that cost?

    The other is a tax credit for new home buyers. Everyone that bought a new house in 2009 that is a first-time home buyer gets $8,000. That is several billion dollars as of November - and they extended it into April of 2010.

    The government needs to stop giving away money like this. It costs huge amounts of a decreasing resource.

    Here in Massachusetts, our half-witted Governor is proposing increased spending in the midst of our recession. Not only that, but there is already a $3 billion structural deficit in our state budget. He is proposing new taxes - after increasing sales tax by 25% last year.

    Governments NEVER cut spending - they only come up with new ways to get more money. Blows my mind that the citizenry just keep lapping this up.

    At least even the liberals here in Massachusetts are starting to do double takes. In another 5 years they may actually be awake enough to revolt against it.

    Our goverment needs to start thinking about saving money. Quit paying billions in subsidies for soybeans, corn, grain, etc. Stop paying farmers to grow some crops, and not others. Stop bailing out companies. Make certain agencies fund themselves - like the FAA. The FAA should make all flying customers, plane owners, and airlines fund the agency - not take money from the general public.
    Funny thing there. I saw just the other day they are going to up the amount of ethanol used. They had one study out of 100 that showed it was beneficial. The use of ethanol as a fuel damages engines, puts more CO2 into the air, and causes the price of food to go up. Worst decsion yet.

    And eventually the multi-billion dollars we throw away in pork barrel pet projects is going to have to stop. If my town wants to build a park, they should pay for it, not get money from an earmark placed by John Olver (my Democratic U. S. Rep.)

    And while I know that it is not popular, programs like SAFER and FIRE Act, and COPS should be cut. Funding hoses, fire trucks, and staffing is a local responsibility - not for someone in California or New York to pay for me in Massachusetts.

    Those in power need to pay attention, because on top of our deficit spending, and booming debt - we have several more trillion in unfunded liabilities and entitlements.

    This nation is in for a world of financial hurt in the next decade.
    I can also agree with cutting SAFER, AFG, COPS, and all the other grant programs. These grants don't go to the most needy, the go to the places that can do the best sell job. Why do you think there are professional grant writers?

    On our current course there will come a time when the country will collapse under its own financial burden (Speaking strictly form experience). There is a tipping point where government provides too much to the people, and after that tipping point The Anthropogenic Tipping Point will be meaningless.

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    Question Fed Money

    Dasharkie,
    Gee, I can't help but wonder how much Federal money was spent on the "BIG DIG" ?? And I get a $1,500 tax credit for putting in a newer more efficent heating/A/C system.Ya Hoo!

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