1. #1
    makes good girls go bad
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    Default LEOs are changing tactics to stay safe.... time we learned a lesson.....

    Heres the jist..... be aggressive, be quick, and it minimalizes the risk all around. Increases YOUR personal risk, but lowers that of those who we are sworn to protect.

    I wonder how the Fire Service could use this same mentality........

    Officers Changing Tactics to Stay Safe

    Posted: Wednesday, February 3, 2010
    Updated: February 4th, 2010 11:19 AM EDT

    Story by wisn.com

    It's happening in Milwaukee, and in cities everywhere -- police officers are being ambushed by dangerous people.

    But now, there is a new trend in law enforcement and a new way of thinking.

    WISN 12 News' Brendan Conway got an exclusive look at a new way to give police officers the upper hand.

    For Menomonee Falls police Officer Eric Palmer, every shift starts the same. He checks his squad car, makes contact with dispatch and heads out to protect and serve.

    But that's where the routine ends.

    For Palmer, and officers all across the county, there is no typical day.

    "Gunmen opened fire on the officer's squad car as she responded to a robbery," 12 News reported.

    A standard call for help turned dangerous in December when a Wauwatosa officer was shot in the stomach as she drove to the scene of an armed robbery.

    In June, two Milwaukee police officers were shot before they could draw their weapons after stopping a man on his bicycle in the third ward.

    Milwaukee police Officer Dennis Justus knows the danger firsthand. He was nearly shot in September while serving a search warrant at 12th and Burleigh streets.

    Justus is also an instructor at Waukesha County Technical College.

    "It was my partner that got shot in the arm, and I was standing right next to him. Just from that standpoint, everything is becoming more dangerous," Justus said.

    Four months after Justus' close call, he is training other officers. He is one of a handful of tactical experts leading a new type of training for police officers at Waukesha County Technical College.

    In one exercise, officers learn how to work together to approach an armed threat.

    These exercises are called "active shooter" training, and it's in direct response to the rash of recent police shootings in Wisconsin and across the country.

    "For us to say it's not going to happen to us is not a good thing to say," DeForest police Officer Bob Berg said.

    Berg is quick to lead his training group.

    In another scenario, officers respond to a hostage situation. In a matter of seconds they must decide who is a victim and who is making the threat.

    Time after time, officers armed with realistic paint ball guns run through similar scenarios. Each time the suspect is taken down.

    The goal of the training is brutally simple -- attack and neutralize the threat.

    Experts said last fall's shooting at Fort Hood provides a perfect example of what officers are now expected to do.

    "People are healthy, alive and walking around today because of the actions this officer took. She's a real hero," Fort Hood Director of Emergency Services Chuck Medley said.

    When Sgt. Kimberly Munley heard about the shooting at the Army base in November, she raced to the action and, despite being outgunned, she confronted the suspected shooter head on. Munley was shot three times, but she kept firing until the suspect was stopped.

    In the past, the first responding officers would secure the scene and wait for the SWAT team, but today that's no longer realistic.

    "A lot of the bad guys we are dealing with now have bigger guns, more powerful weapons, and if there people are carrying around weapons like that we need to move quickly," Justus said.

    "We know as fast as a law enforcement officer can get on scene and get into that building, the fewer casualties will occur," WCTC Dean of Criminal Justice Brian Dorow said. "The end result, it does save lives."

    It puts you guys in a more dangerous situation doesn't it?"
    WISN 12 News reporter Brendan Conway asked.

    "It does, but it's our job and we try to do what we can to save lives," Berg said.

    "In your mind, you know what you signed up for, and you just hope it doesn't happen in your area, but with training and experience, you are pretty much ready for whatever situation comes arise,"
    Palmer said.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

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    This type of training and mentality is really nothing new. This came about since the Columbine shooting.

    Not sure how the fire service can benefit from active shooter training.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

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    makes good girls go bad
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    I was thinking more along the lines of hit fast, hit hard, while the damage is minimal.
    this 2/2, waiting for RIT, is the wind right kinda shiit.
    If you can contain it, and do it quick, GET ON IT.

    A good plan violently executed right now is far better than a perfect plan executed next week.
    Gen. George Patton, Jr.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

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    Ah, I see.

    I agree. An aggressive but safe attack is always best.
    Jason Knecht
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    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
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    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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    I have never thought of any other approach. Safety is great, but not at the expense of those we serve..after all that is WHY we are here is it not?

    Aggressively safe - NO
    Safely aggressive - YES


    Cogs

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFPCogs08 View Post
    I have never thought of any other approach. Safety is great, but not at the expense of those we serve..after all that is WHY we are here is it not?

    Aggressively safe - NO
    Safely aggressive - YES


    Cogs
    You know what I mean. Not an attack from the outside but if it's safe to do so, be as aggressive as you can be. Risk vs. Benefit.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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    I believe it ws Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY who stated in his speech at FDIC

    The best way to insure the safety of firefighters and the public is to put the fire out.
    It's not rocket science or brain surgery... its GPMs vs. BTUs!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    I was thinking more along the lines of hit fast, hit hard, while the damage is minimal.
    this 2/2, waiting for RIT, is the wind right kinda shiit.
    If you can contain it, and do it quick, GET ON IT.
    Firefighting is a highly skilled BLUE-COLLAR job. Our predecessors did it great and they adhered to the KISS ideology. Something we are unable or unwilling to do anymore. I'm not against improving things(gear & SCBA) but it seems the only thing we're doing is coming up with more acronyms and "standards" that are designed to hand-cuff Chiefs & Officers in decision making more than anything else.
    More and more of us now are becoming paper firefighters. We are dreaming up more and more BS all in the name of safety, but IMO, nothing more than to make some "firefighters" resumes bigger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    You know what I mean. Not an attack from the outside but if it's safe to do so, be as aggressive as you can be. Risk vs. Benefit.
    Also, not standing outside for 10 minutes trying to figure out what to do.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Originally Posted by Dickey
    You know what I mean. Not an attack from the outside but if it's safe to do so, be as aggressive as you can be. Risk vs. Benefit.
    Originally Posted by George
    Also, not standing outside for 10 minutes trying to figure out what to do.
    That will throw some FD's playbook out the window...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    I believe it ws Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY who stated in his speech at FDIC



    It's not rocket science or brain surgery... its GPMs vs. BTUs!
    Again.....Bing Freakin' O !!!
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    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

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    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FHJ718 View Post
    Firefighting is a highly skilled BLUE-COLLAR job. Our predecessors did it great and they adhered to the KISS ideology. Something we are unable or unwilling to do anymore. I'm not against improving things(gear & SCBA) but it seems the only thing we're doing is coming up with more acronyms and "standards" that are designed to hand-cuff Chiefs & Officers in decision making more than anything else.
    More and more of us now are becoming paper firefighters. We are dreaming up more and more BS all in the name of safety, but IMO, nothing more than to make some "firefighters" resumes bigger.
    I agree, but not totally, about 90%...

    Not all change is bad or not all "new" ways of doing things are bad either. In my opinion, the best strategy is to be as aggressive, as quick, and as safe as you possibly can while using everything at your disposal. I agree with your statement of "paper firefighters" who have more paper on the wall than crust on their helmet. However, I think the best firefighter, or best officer, has a combination of both paper and crust. There is something to be said for the volunteer firefighter in Bumphuck, Wisconsin who has been doing it for 30 years but doesn't have the paper saying he is "certified" as a firefighter. On the other hand, there is something to be said for the guy who has all the degrees, PhD's, and other letters behind their name as well. Yes, that paper stands for something and shows you have some education. But....all the education in the world, or all the experience in the world don't mean a thing unless you can get the right mixture of both.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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