1. #26
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    I fully understand what you are saying as well GT.

    Therein lies the classic mini-pumper canundrum - how much is too much without bering less than enough.

    If you can keep the firefighting elements to a bare minimum and in line with an intial attack truck, you'll be fine. I would define that as attack hose and basic forcible entry gear, plus your EMS gear.

    It's when we get into adding the laders they "might" need and the saws they "might" and the other stuff they might need that the rig becomes a rollinmg closet.

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    Default Is this something close?

    I saw this on the HME website.

    Not a full size truck but more capable than a F550.

    http://www.hmeahrensfox.com/RAT.asp

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    Chief ...

    Interesting concept.

    Question would be what is the cost v. a full-sized engine.

    To me, this would be a fully capable attack piece for areas with lakeshore or mountain homes with access issues. This would be an excellent piece for areas in northern Chittenden and Grand Isle counties, as local examples, including my former VFD.

    I think GT is talking more about a meduim-duty squad primarily for EMS and very initial fire attack, as well as some maybe light extrication operations. Or at least that's the sense I get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Chief ...

    Interesting concept.

    Question would be what is the cost v. a full-sized engine.

    To me, this would be a fully capable attack piece for areas with lakeshore or mountain homes with access issues. This would be an excellent piece for areas in northern Chittenden and Grand Isle counties, as local examples, including my former VFD.

    I think GT is talking more about a meduim-duty squad primarily for EMS and very initial fire attack, as well as some maybe light extrication operations. Or at least that's the sense I get.
    I am sure the cost is up there, but all of them are. Just a different way of doing it. Sometimes just getting a different point of view will make you think of something in a different light.

    I saw a .pdf of a unit that was more like a rescue with 750/500, short and nible. http://www.hmeahrensfox.com/Demos/fi...%20DRAWING.pdf

    I like looking at all the different manufacturers for different ideas.

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    You should ask yourself some simple questions up front...

    What do you want it to be able to do (think about past and potential fire and emergency situations). Will it fit the bill?

    With the pump you choose, will it be primarily drafting or primarily nurse fed/hydrant supply?

    If its a draft rig, will you have enough suction hose to reach your water supplies? Will it have ground clearance and 4x4 capability to do so?

    If its a hydrant fed rig will you have enough hose to layout with? If its intended to be a "driveway rig" and lay a supply line up a driveway, will it have enough hose? How long are your typical driveways?

  6. #31
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    MG has it right on.

    With a rig like this you need to be pretty specific about what you want it to do and from the beginning spec out exactly what the load will be.

    Again, I have seen so many mini's speced out to do so many tasks that the department would have been just better off buying a full-sized piece.

    On the other hand, I have seen many speced out to do 1 or 2 jobs and they do them very,very well.

    One option for a driveway piece would be to go without a water tank or pump, and simply design it as a manifold rig with LDH, attack lines and a full compliment of tools. The department next to use designed a piece like that and it was very successful as it carried what they needed on a small chassis without pushing the GVW because it didn't carry water or a pump. They also used it as an EMS response piece and a manpower carrier with extra SCBA cylinders.

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    You can cut weight by opting for a PTO pump versus the split-driveline midship. I don't know if you can get 1000GPM, but you should be able to get at least 750GPM. IMHO, CAFS is a must have on something like this, since you've only got 300 gallons of water.

    Snuffer builds a nice unit with a 750GPM PTO and CAFS. Or you could get Rowe Industries to install their underhood compressor CAFS on any unit you choose.

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    We just bought a rosenbauer mini pumper/quick attack, its top heavy, it was speced for 1000 ft of supply line, don't know why, i think they wanted it to be a first out truck, but we only 600 ft on it. It has 2 1 3/4 crosslays and I 2 1/2 preconnect. the one thing I like about it is that you can drive that a narrow driveway and take one of our custom cabs and relay pump to it. Here is a link to the truck.

    http://firenews.net/index.php/appara...s_single/2105/

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    The one downside of going with the Chevy/GMC chassis is it approaches more of a midi-pumper size versus a true minipumper.

    My personal fave for a mini-pumper is the Blanchat Minuteman (http://www.blanchatmfg.com/minuteman/), though its pump may be a bit small for some AND you can add enough to it to approach overload. On the plus side, CAFS is an option.

    We demo'd this unit and were quite impressed. IMHO, it really needs to lose about 100 gallons and nix the top compartments. Other than that, it drove and handled well.

  10. #35
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    I guess I'm a beleiver that a mini-pumper simply can't be the jack of all trades that folks are looking for. Fire attack with a descent sized tank and pump, supply hose, extrication tools, EMS equipment and the other "stuff" folks try to cram onto that small chassis is simply just too much. I have simply seen too many handling and maintainence issues resulting from trying to get a small do it-all-piece on a small chassis.

    If you want a small quick attack unit, go to a mid-sized chassis.

    Quick attack unit. Fine. Small rescue and EMS unit. Fine. Brush fire unit. Great. Hose carrier with a pump. Fine. But not all on the same truck.

    If you want to stick with the smaller chassis, target your needs.

  11. #36
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    Default perfect

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefDog View Post
    I saw this on the HME website.

    Not a full size truck but more capable than a F550.

    http://www.hmeahrensfox.com/RAT.asp
    seen this thing up close and personal more money than the f-550. but is a nice rig. i like the mini idea a few dept's have minis. some put jaws on there, so that they arent running their main engines all the time. we have a few depts that have a medi also. i think the mini would be the way to go especially if you can get a nice foam system for it. we use to have a mini for rescue, and for squad type operations used it to transport people for manpower, and had our jaws on it. we replaced it with a class a rescue/pumper. so we have 2 class a's,and 1 tanker, and 2 brush. i sorta miss the mini. would be nice to have it one to run to mutual aids.

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    The biggest market for the mini-pumper is, IMHO, the small rural department that simply can't afford separate units for pumper, rescue, and brush truck and doesn't have the manpower to respond multiple units.

    If you're a rural department that runs 80-100 brush fires, 15-30 MVAs, and maybe 10 structure fires (and half of those are hay barns), something like the Blanchat truck, along with a tanker, would (once again IMHO) be perfect.

    That or the urban department that runs the occassional vehicle fire in a parking garage inaccessible by a standard pumper. But in that scenario, I'd go with a stripped down version of the Blanchat truck, taking out the vehicle extrication tools, etc.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpleguy68 View Post
    My personal fave for a mini-pumper is the Blanchat Minuteman (http://www.blanchatmfg.com/minuteman/), though its pump may be a bit small for some AND you can add enough to it to approach overload. On the plus side, CAFS is an option.
    I was reading through this thread and had this in mind the entire time - I had just gone to look up the web site to post back here when I read your post.

    I have no first hand experience with these but they look quite impressive.
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  14. #39
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    Bringing this one back from the dead...

    Crimson is now offering a mini pumper with a 1,500 GPM pump. What say you?

    http://www.crimson-fire.com/ClassicSeriesPumpers/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  15. #40
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    Default ISO Slayer

    Quote Originally Posted by ... View Post
    If you get a mini pumper with a 750 GPM pump and 300 gallon tank you get a NFPA engine.
    Oh, and the truck you posted is the same one that was discussed, but it was just a typo because it had a 1,000 GPM pump not a 1,250.
    But it will not count full credit for ISO....... Needs a minimum 1,000 GPM pump and ALL of the items listed in ISO's FSRS (Fire Suppression Rating Schedule)

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    I would say do not worry about ISO. Look into a truck that is capable of basic fire suppression and rescue response. A 750 GPM PTO front mount pump and 200 gallon tank with a 5 gallon foam cell and a small 30 GPM auxiliary pump with a 100 feet of trash hose on a real. The PTO pump is for draft supply and remote access pumping. The auxiliary pump is plumbed to the tank,it can handle small fires and be use to wash fuel from a MVA. The truck will be more rescue then fire suppression.

  17. #42
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    Looks like a nice, clean functional piece for one or two clearly defined purposes.

    Would work well for EMS. Figure 2 compartments, especially if you are running ALS.

    Would work well as a nice light rescue. Figure a full compartment for cribbing. Figure another compartment for basic extrication related hand tools. Figure another compartment, if not 2 for hydraulic tools. At this point I haven't even talked about struts, air bags and the cribbing required for a multi-vehicle or a large one-vehicle MVA, among other stuff.

    We are now up to 6 compartments filled, and we haven't figured in extinguishers, SCBA, firefighting hand tools and basic appliances for the pump operator.

    My point is simple. If you want to run this mini as a first out EMS and a very light rescue, with a larger rescue carrying the more specilaized equipment avaialble for larger incidents, it looks like a great rig . If you wanted to run this as a first out EMS unit and a light-duty first-in engine on smaller incidents or as a limited access vehicle with 2-3 SCBA a basic inventory of suppression tools, this would be a great piece. But IMO, and in my experience, I think trying to make a rig like this work for all 3 is just asking too much and would definatly push the GVW over the top.

    In all honesty, if you are looking for a EMS and light to mid-duty rescue, I would probably go with a simple box, with a center slide out tray, much like our light rescue and service trucks, which are on an F450 chassis. If interested shoot me your e-mail and I'll send you photos (as I have no idea how to post them here)
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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