Let's Talk Mini Pumpers

[nameless]

sounds like you'd need a Midi sized pumper to put any significant amount of equipment on it, and even then its still going to be overstuffed or lacking equipment.

[bendone]

Can the Chevy 5500 actually pump 1500gpm? seems a bit much.

Actually it will pump more. it's rated and tested at 1500. Darley pump= more water with less horsepower!
Maybe it's a midi but when we were looking at chassis it was in the same class as the 550 but much more manuverable and height was not a problem for us.

[Rescue101]

NOT a Darley exclusive. I'm not going down that road but wouldn't be MY first choice. All your major pump builders have low input, high yield pumps. T.C.

[LaFireEducator]

GT ..

I see where you are headed, but, I have been down this road as well.

Once you add the pump and a water tank, it becomes very, very tempting to add just a couple of more items so if it has to, it can function as a supression unit if it really has to. Then another couple of items sneak in ... then a couple more ..... well, I think you get the picture.

IMO, whatever that is worth, if you want a medical response, light rescue and supression piece, even if it may only be used "if", purchase a midi-chassis, unless it is going to be one-demensional such as a dedicated brush or light-duty or meduim-duty foam unit.

[GTRider245]

GT ..

I see where you are headed, but, I have been down this road as well.

Once you add the pump and a water tank, it becomes very, very tempting to add just a couple of more items so if it has to, it can function as a supression unit if it really has to. Then another couple of items sneak in ... then a couple more ..... well, I think you get the picture.

IMO, whatever that is worth, if you want a medical response, light rescue and supression piece, even if it may only be used "if", purchase a midi-chassis, unless it is going to be one-demensional such as a dedicated brush or light-duty or meduim-duty foam unit.

I see what you're saying, but in my mind if we buy a med. duty chassis we might as well just buy another Freightliner.

[LaFireEducator]

I fully understand what you are saying as well GT.

Therein lies the classic mini-pumper canundrum - how much is too much without bering less than enough.

If you can keep the firefighting elements to a bare minimum and in line with an intial attack truck, you'll be fine. I would define that as attack hose and basic forcible entry gear, plus your EMS gear.

It's when we get into adding the laders they "might" need and the saws they "might" and the other stuff they might need that the rig becomes a rollinmg closet.

[ChiefDog]

I saw this on the HME website.

Not a full size truck but more capable than a F550.

http://www.hmeahrensfox.com/RAT.asp

[LaFireEducator]

Chief ...

Interesting concept.

Question would be what is the cost v. a full-sized engine.

To me, this would be a fully capable attack piece for areas with lakeshore or mountain homes with access issues. This would be an excellent piece for areas in northern Chittenden and Grand Isle counties, as local examples, including my former VFD.

I think GT is talking more about a meduim-duty squad primarily for EMS and very initial fire attack, as well as some maybe light extrication operations. Or at least that's the sense I get.

[ChiefDog]

Chief ...

Interesting concept.

Question would be what is the cost v. a full-sized engine.

To me, this would be a fully capable attack piece for areas with lakeshore or mountain homes with access issues. This would be an excellent piece for areas in northern Chittenden and Grand Isle counties, as local examples, including my former VFD.

I think GT is talking more about a meduim-duty squad primarily for EMS and very initial fire attack, as well as some maybe light extrication operations. Or at least that's the sense I get.

I am sure the cost is up there, but all of them are. Just a different way of doing it. Sometimes just getting a different point of view will make you think of something in a different light.

I saw a .pdf of a unit that was more like a rescue with 750/500, short and nible. http://www.hmeahrensfox.com/Demos/fi...%20DRAWING.pdf

I like looking at all the different manufacturers for different ideas.

[MG3610]

You should ask yourself some simple questions up front...

What do you want it to be able to do (think about past and potential fire and emergency situations). Will it fit the bill?

With the pump you choose, will it be primarily drafting or primarily nurse fed/hydrant supply?

If its a draft rig, will you have enough suction hose to reach your water supplies? Will it have ground clearance and 4x4 capability to do so?

If its a hydrant fed rig will you have enough hose to layout with? If its intended to be a "driveway rig" and lay a supply line up a driveway, will it have enough hose? How long are your typical driveways?

[LaFireEducator]

MG has it right on.

With a rig like this you need to be pretty specific about what you want it to do and from the beginning spec out exactly what the load will be.

Again, I have seen so many mini's speced out to do so many tasks that the department would have been just better off buying a full-sized piece.

On the other hand, I have seen many speced out to do 1 or 2 jobs and they do them very,very well.

One option for a driveway piece would be to go without a water tank or pump, and simply design it as a manifold rig with LDH, attack lines and a full compliment of tools. The department next to use designed a piece like that and it was very successful as it carried what they needed on a small chassis without pushing the GVW because it didn't carry water or a pump. They also used it as an EMS response piece and a manpower carrier with extra SCBA cylinders.

[simpleguy_68]

You can cut weight by opting for a PTO pump versus the split-driveline midship. I don't know if you can get 1000GPM, but you should be able to get at least 750GPM. IMHO, CAFS is a must have on something like this, since you've only got 300 gallons of water.

Snuffer builds a nice unit with a 750GPM PTO and CAFS. Or you could get Rowe Industries to install their underhood compressor CAFS on any unit you choose.

[lvfd2167]

We just bought a rosenbauer mini pumper/quick attack, its top heavy, it was speced for 1000 ft of supply line, don't know why, i think they wanted it to be a first out truck, but we only 600 ft on it. It has 2 1 3/4 crosslays and I 2 1/2 preconnect. the one thing I like about it is that you can drive that a narrow driveway and take one of our custom cabs and relay pump to it. Here is a link to the truck.

http://firenews.net/index.php/appara...s_single/2105/

[simpleguy68]

The one downside of going with the Chevy/GMC chassis is it approaches more of a midi-pumper size versus a true minipumper.

My personal fave for a mini-pumper is the Blanchat Minuteman (http://www.blanchatmfg.com/minuteman/), though its pump may be a bit small for some AND you can add enough to it to approach overload. On the plus side, CAFS is an option.

We demo'd this unit and were quite impressed. IMHO, it really needs to lose about 100 gallons and nix the top compartments. Other than that, it drove and handled well.

[LaFireEducator]

I guess I'm a beleiver that a mini-pumper simply can't be the jack of all trades that folks are looking for. Fire attack with a descent sized tank and pump, supply hose, extrication tools, EMS equipment and the other "stuff" folks try to cram onto that small chassis is simply just too much. I have simply seen too many handling and maintainence issues resulting from trying to get a small do it-all-piece on a small chassis.

If you want a small quick attack unit, go to a mid-sized chassis.

Quick attack unit. Fine. Small rescue and EMS unit. Fine. Brush fire unit. Great. Hose carrier with a pump. Fine. But not all on the same truck.

If you want to stick with the smaller chassis, target your needs.

[michtfd]

I saw this on the HME website.

Not a full size truck but more capable than a F550.

http://www.hmeahrensfox.com/RAT.asp

seen this thing up close and personal more money than the f-550. but is a nice rig. i like the mini idea a few dept's have minis. some put jaws on there, so that they arent running their main engines all the time. we have a few depts that have a medi also. i think the mini would be the way to go especially if you can get a nice foam system for it. we use to have a mini for rescue, and for squad type operations used it to transport people for manpower, and had our jaws on it. we replaced it with a class a rescue/pumper. so we have 2 class a's,and 1 tanker, and 2 brush. i sorta miss the mini. would be nice to have it one to run to mutual aids.

[simpleguy68]

The biggest market for the mini-pumper is, IMHO, the small rural department that simply can't afford separate units for pumper, rescue, and brush truck and doesn't have the manpower to respond multiple units.

If you're a rural department that runs 80-100 brush fires, 15-30 MVAs, and maybe 10 structure fires (and half of those are hay barns), something like the Blanchat truck, along with a tanker, would (once again IMHO) be perfect.

That or the urban department that runs the occassional vehicle fire in a parking garage inaccessible by a standard pumper. But in that scenario, I'd go with a stripped down version of the Blanchat truck, taking out the vehicle extrication tools, etc.

[N2DFire]

My personal fave for a mini-pumper is the Blanchat Minuteman (http://www.blanchatmfg.com/minuteman/), though its pump may be a bit small for some AND you can add enough to it to approach overload. On the plus side, CAFS is an option.

I was reading through this thread and had this in mind the entire time - I had just gone to look up the web site to post back here when I read your post.

I have no first hand experience with these but they look quite impressive.

[GTRider245]

Bringing this one back from the dead...

Crimson is now offering a mini pumper with a 1,500 GPM pump. What say you?

http://www.crimson-fire.com/ClassicSeriesPumpers/

[Seagravesstick]

If you get a mini pumper with a 750 GPM pump and 300 gallon tank you get a NFPA engine.
Oh, and the truck you posted is the same one that was discussed, but it was just a typo because it had a 1,000 GPM pump not a 1,250.

But it will not count full credit for ISO....... Needs a minimum 1,000 GPM pump and ALL of the items listed in ISO's FSRS (Fire Suppression Rating Schedule)